social worker stabbed to death during home visit

Illinois child welfare worker fatally stabbed during home visit; suspect charged with murder

SPRINGFIELD, Ill. — An Illinois child welfare worker was stabbed to death during a home visit in a town south of Springfield, authorities said.

Diedre Silas, 36, an investigator for the state Department of Children and Family Services, was conducting a welfare check Tuesday on children living in the home in Thayer when she was stabbed, according to Sangamon County Sheriff Jack Campbell.

Thayer is located 23 miles south of the capital city.

Benjamin Reed, 32, who authorities say lived in the home, faces charges of first-degree murder, aggravated battery and unlawful restraint. Sangamon County State’s Attorney Dan Wright said conviction could put Reed in prison for life if a court finds the conduct in Silas’ death “exceptionally brutal, heinous and indicative of wanton cruelty.”

Authorities arrived at the scene just before 4:30 p.m. Tuesday and found what appeared to be blood near the door. They forced their way into the house and found the victim dead inside. Police obtained a search warrant and collected evidence that helped them find Reed at a Decatur hospital around 6:30 p.m., authorities said.

Reed was treated for a cut on the hand and taken to the Sangamon County Jail, where bond for his release was set at $5 million on Wednesday morning.

But at a late Wednesday news conference, Wright parried questions about why Silas was visiting the home, why she went alone and whether there was a suspected threat there, saying that responses “are relevant enough to this investigation that it’s not appropriate to answer those questions.”

That frustrated members of Silas’ family, including her 61-year-old father Roy Graham, who brought Diedre from Jamaica when she was 10. He saw the married mother of two develop her love for helping children as early as high school, mentoring grade school children and volunteering for Sparc, a nonprofit devoted to supporting people with intellectual and developmental disabilities.

“Why do you really attack my daughter? I can’t understand why you’d do that,” Graham said after the news conference. “I know she’d be begging for her life. Why? She didn’t come to talk to you.... That’s brutal, mischievous, hardcore stuff.”

Six children of undisclosed ages were present at the time of the incident, Campbell said, but he was unaware if they witnessed anything. They were in protective custody on Wednesday. Campbell said he believes Reed is related to one or more of the children and that several adults were living in the home, but he did not elaborate.

DCFS Director Marc Smith said the last investigator to be killed on duty occurred about four years ago. Smith said the agency trains its staff in how to approach various situations, including going into a volatile environment. Staff members decide whether to go alone, in pairs, or summon police protection, he said.

“In this tragic circumstance, the family we were there to help had a negative response to our presence,” Smith said. “We’re not avoiding any responsibility. We take responsibility for all of our staff, as well as the children and families that we serve. We will continue to work, we will continue to improve our policies and procedures as we can.”

Silas had just joined the department in August after working in the behavioral health field for seven years at the Department of Juvenile Justice, according to a statement by Council 31 of the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees, which represents DCFS employees.

“This tragedy is a stark reminder that frontline DCFS employees like Deidre do demanding, dangerous and essential jobs every day, often despite inadequate resources and tremendous stress,” AFSCME Executive Director Roberta Lynch said.

The Associated Press

Social Workers' Safety Remains Concern After DCFS Employee Killed in Central Illinois

The attack on silas also marked the 21st time since 2017 that caseworkers were subject to “threats or acts of violence” during 2.5 million home visits in illinois, dcfs officials stated, published january 9, 2022 • updated on january 9, 2022 at 5:42 pm.

Illinois officials are seeking answers after the killing last week of a state child welfare worker during a home visit — the second such tragedy to occur in less than five years.

Deidre Silas, an investigator with the Illinois Department of Children and Family Services,  was stabbed to death  last Tuesday when she responded to a call of possible endangerment of children in a home in the central Illinois town of Thayer.

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A man related to one or more of the six children who were at home at the time, 32-year-old Benjamin Reed, is being held in the Sangamon County Jail without bond on first-degree murder and other charges. An attempt by The Associated Press to reach Reed’s attorney on Friday was unsuccessful.

Silas’ death is the second time in four-and-a-half years that state officials and the social work community are asking what should have been done, but wasn’t, to prevent it. DCFS investigator Pamela Knight, 59, died following  a brutal beating  while attempting to remove an endangered child from his father in September 2017.

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Like Silas, Knight was alone when she was attacked. Officials at DCFS, which has 23,000 children under its care, have not released details about the circumstances behind Silas’ visit to the home in Thayer, located 23 miles (37 kilometers) south of Springfield, but DCFS Director Marc Smith said last week that agency protocol was followed.

The attack on Silas also marked the 21st time since 2017 that caseworkers were subject to “threats or acts of violence” during 2.5 million home visits in Illinois, agency spokesman Bill McCaffrey said.

Her death has raised questions of why case workers are sent into potentially volatile environments alone, and whether understaffing — a problem that has plagued DCFS for decades despite a federal consent decree regulating it — affects the response of caseworkers in the field.

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“DCFS, if you’re sending someone into a situation like this, just send two at a time,” Silas’ father, Roy Graham, said last week. “Whether it’s a male and female or two males or two females, either way, but send two per visit, not just one.”

Police agencies historically have been willing and able to help. That cooperation was strengthened after Knight’s death. A law signed in 2018  allows law enforcement officers to cross into another jurisdiction  to back up a home visit. Knight, who was based in Sterling, did have police backup initially.

But the boy Knight was seeking was not at his father’s home, forcing Knight to check his grandparents’ home in the next county. She decided that waiting for a new police agency to accompany her jeopardized the boy’s safety. The boy’s father met her at the second stop, and beat and kicked her so severely that she suffered brain damage and died five months later.

Arnold Black, a child protection specialist and supervisor in the DCFS Urbana office, said that any time a case worker or a supervisor believes there should be two workers on a home visit, it’s approved. And there is no hesitancy to seek police backup, as  outlined in the agency’s administrative procedures on field safety .

“Sometimes, taking the police can agitate the client. You’ve got to know the family ... You have some families that are going to yell and scream at you for the first five minutes, but then they’re going to let you in,” Black said. “But if it’s a newer case, or if it’s in a rural area, I have no problem pulling another worker to go.”

The problem, though, is that pairing workers stretches the workforce, sometimes resulting in plucking employees from other offices, Black said. The Urbana office has a worker shortage of more than 6% and agents on Black’s team have caseloads of 30 to 50 families per worker, in many cases exceeding the limit of a 1988 federal consent decree that limits to 12 the number of new cases assigned monthly to each worker.

The Knight tragedy also resulted, with a push from the DCFS employees’ union, the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees Council 31, in office-based security guards and improved access to law enforcement records of people to be visited.

Black, a member of the AFSCME committee which quarterly discusses issues with DCFS management, said the workforce continues to push for other changes it supports.

Those changes include ongoing self-defense and de-escalation training from the Illinois State Police, public service announcements to familiarize the public with caseworkers and their duties and a law enforcement database like in Cook County that records not only arrests and convictions but any interaction police have with a particular address.

Newly hired investigators, who make about $55,000 a year, must successfully complete a six-week “foundations” training session that includes safety precautions, DCFS spokesman Bill McCaffrey said. Once in the field, they continue under a supervisor’s tutelage and must complete a “workplace and field safety” training session within 90 days of starting.

Sen. Sara Feigenholtz, a Chicago Democrat and leader on child-welfare issues, said DCFS needs to build an infrastructure, with private sector cooperation, to recruit and retain employees. She anticipates more immediate  safety legislation  when the facts of Silas’ death are public.

“If there are any other resources we can give our frontline workers, you’ll be sure that we’re going to be looking to see how we avoid this kind of situation,” Feigenholtz said.

January 9, 2022

Illinois Social Worker Stabbed To Death During Home VIsit

An Illinois social worker was stabbed to death during a scheduled home visit on Tuesday.

According to CBS Chicago, Deidre Silas conducted a home visit in Sangamon County after reports of six young children being endangered surfaced. Silas, 36, went to the home to investigate and was reportedly stabbed by 32-year-old Benjamin Reed, who is white. The youngsters ranging in ages one to seven were allegedly in the house but did not witness the crime.

The murder happened shortly after 4 p.m. in Thayer, Illinois (a town 20 miles outside of Springfield). The Sangamon County Sheriff’s Office told the news outlet that officers responded to the stabbing and had to enter the house forcibly. Silas was already dead upon police arrival. The children were not injured during the attack.

Department of Children and Family Services (DCFS) Director Marc Smith released a statement regarding Silas’ tragic death.

“The Department of Children and Family Services is deeply saddened by the tragic death of our colleague, Deidre Silas. Our most heartfelt condolences, thoughts, and prayers are with her family during this difficult time. Social work is more than just a job. It is a calling.”

“Deidre responded to this call and dedicated herself to the children, families and communities she served, and we will be forever grateful for her work,” he continued. “She was an incredible person, and her brightness and positivity will be missed not only by her family and friends but also her second family at DCFS.”

Reed fled the scene but was later apprehended that day in Decatur, a town 60 miles away from where the crime occurred. He was indicted on first-degree murder charges and aggravated battery with a deadly weapon. 

Illinois Governor JB Pritzker also issued a statement regarding Silas’ death.

“Today, the State of Illinois mourns the loss of Deidre Silas, a DCFS caseworker and a hero, taken from us in the line of duty. There is no higher calling than the work to keep children and families safe, and Deidre lived that value every single day. Our most vulnerable are safer because she chose to serve. I can think of no more profound legacy. MK and I send our deepest condolences to her colleagues at DCFS, her family, and all who loved her.”

The social worker’s union mates also grieved the loss of their fallen comrade. Silas was a proud and dedicated member of AFSCME 805.

AFSCME Council 31 Executive Roberta Lynch said , “We are heartbroken at the loss of Illinois Department of Children and Family Services (DCFS) investigator and AFSCME member Deidre Silas of Springfield, murdered Tuesday; while responding to a report of children in danger.”

“The perpetrator of this unspeakable crime must be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law,” she added.

“Deidre dedicated her career to helping young people. Prior to joining DCFS in August 2021, she worked in behavioral health and for more than seven years with the Department of Juvenile Justice, where she was a union steward. This tragedy is a stark reminder that frontline DCFS employees like Deidre do demanding, dangerous and essential jobs every day, often despite inadequate resources and tremendous stress.”

“AFSCME will carefully study the facts of this incident as they emerge and press for any necessary changes to DCFS operations. One death in the line of service is too many,” Robertsexpressed.

“Our union is providing support to Deidre’s coworkers to help them process this trauma and aid their grieving.”

No motive for the stabbing has been released.

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Illinois child welfare worker fatally stabbed during visit

This Jan. 5, 2022, photo provided by the Sangamon County Sheriff’s Office in Springfield, Ill., shows Benjamin H. Reed. Reed is charged with first degree murder and aggravated battery with a deadly weapon in the stabbing death Tuesday, Jan. 4, 2022, of DCFS child-welfare worker Diedre Silas, 36. (Sangamon County Sheriff’s Office via AP)

Sangamon County Sheriff Jack Campbell discusses the stabbing death of state child welfare worker Diedre Silas during a news conference, Wednesday, Jan. 5, 2022, in Springfield, Ill. Silas, 36, was conducting a visit Tuesday, Jan. 4, on a home in Thayer, south of Springfield, when she was stabbed. A man living in the home, 32-year-old Benjamin H. Reed, faces charges of first-degree murder, aggravated battery and unlawful restraint. He is being held in the Sangamon County Jail on $5 million bond. (AP Photo/John O’Connor)

Marc Smith, director of the Illinois Department of Children and Family Services, discusses the stabbing death of state child welfare worker Diedre Silas during a news conference, Wednesday, Jan. 5, 2022, in Springfield, Ill. Silas, 36, was conducting a visit Tuesday, Jan. 4, on a home in Thayer, south of Springfield, when she was stabbed. A man living in the home, 32-year-old Benjamin H. Reed, faces charges of first-degree murder, aggravated battery and unlawful restraint. He is being held in the Sangamon County Jail on $5 million bond. (AP Photo/John O’Connor)

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SPRINGFIELD, Ill. (AP) — An Illinois child welfare worker was stabbed to death during a home visit in a town south of Springfield, authorities said.

Diedre Silas, 36, an investigator for the state Department of Children and Family Services, was conducting a welfare check Tuesday on children living in the home in Thayer when she was stabbed, according to Sangamon County Sheriff Jack Campbell.

Thayer is located 23 miles (37 kilometers) south of the capital city.

Benjamin Reed, 32, who authorities say lived in the home, faces charges of first-degree murder, aggravated battery and unlawful restraint. Sangamon County State’s Attorney Dan Wright said conviction could put Reed in prison for life if a court finds the conduct in Silas’ death “exceptionally brutal, heinous and indicative of wanton cruelty.”

Authorities arrived at the scene just before 4:30 p.m. Tuesday and found what appeared to be blood near the door. They forced their way into the house and found the victim dead inside. Police obtained a search warrant and collected evidence that helped them find Reed at a Decatur hospital around 6:30 p.m., authorities said.

Reed was treated for a cut on the hand and taken to the Sangamon County Jail, where bond for his release was set at $5 million on Wednesday morning.

But at a late Wednesday news conference, Wright parried questions about why Silas was visiting the home, why she went alone and whether there was a suspected threat there, saying that responses “are relevant enough to this investigation that it’s not appropriate to answer those questions.”

That frustrated members of Silas’ family, including her 61-year-old father Roy Graham, who brought Diedre from Jamaica when she was 10. He saw the married mother of two develop her love for helping children as early as high school, mentoring grade school children and volunteering for Sparc, a nonprofit devoted to supporting people with intellectual and developmental disabilities.

“Why do you really attack my daughter? I can’t understand why you’d do that,” Graham said after then news conference. “I know she’d be begging for her life. Why? She didn’t come to talk to you.... That’s brutal, mischievous, hardcore stuff.”

Six children of undisclosed ages were present at the time of the incident, Campbell said, but he was unaware if they witnessed anything. They were in protective custody on Wednesday. Campbell said he believes Reed is related to one or more of the children and that several adults were living in the home, but he did not elaborate.

DCFS Director Marc Smith said the last investigator to be killed on duty occurred about four years ago. Smith said the agency trains its staff in how to approach various situations, including going into a volatile environment. Staff members decide whether to go alone, in pairs, or summon police protection, he said.

“In this tragic circumstance, the family we were there to help had a negative response to our presence,” Smith said. “We’re not avoiding any responsibility. We take responsibility for all of our staff, as well as the children and families that we serve. We will continue to work, we will continue to improve our policies and procedures as we can.”

Silas had just joined the department in August after working in the behavioral health field for seven years at the Department of Juvenile Justice, according to a statement by Council 31 of the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees, which represents DCFS employees.

“This tragedy is a stark reminder that frontline DCFS employees like Deidre do demanding, dangerous and essential jobs every day, often despite inadequate resources and tremendous stress,” AFSCME Executive Director Roberta Lynch said.

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Illinois Child Welfare Worker Stabbed To Death In Brutal Attack During Home Visit

The family of an Illinois social worker who was killed on the job while responding to reports of a possibly endangered child are demanding answers after the Springfield mother’s abrupt death.

Deidre Silas, 36, a state Department of Children and Family Services (DCFS) investigator, was fatally stabbed at a home in Thayer, Illinois on Tuesday, officials said.

Silas died of "multiple sharp force injuries and blunt force trauma," Sangamon County Coroner Jim Allmon confirmed with Oxygen.com on Monday. Her death was ruled a homicide.

On Jan. 4, Sangamon County deputies, along with local police, were called to the 300 block of West Elm Street in Thayer shortly after 4 p.m. after reports of the deadly knife attack. Silas was found unresponsive and pronounced dead at the scene.

Benjamin Reed, 32, a resident at the property, was arrested roughly half hour later at St. Mary’s Hospital in Decatur, Illinois, r​​eported the Springfield State Journal-Register , after seeking medical treatment for a cut he’d sustained on his hand. Reed has since been charged with murder by Sangamon County State’s Attorney.

Law enforcement officials haven’t specified a motive in Silas’ murder.

Six children, aged one to seven, as well as other adults, were present in the house at the time of the fatal stabbing. Authorities were unable to immediately confirm if the minors belonged to Reed. The children have since been turned over to state officials.

Benjamin Reed Photo: Sangamon County Sheriff's Office

Officials confirmed that Silas had been investigating a possible case of child neglect at the time of her death.

"The investigator visits the home and interviews witnesses to determine if the allegation is founded and what action should be taken," Anders Lindall, a Council 31 spokesman for the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees told the State Journal-Register.

The Springfield woman had been working for DCFS since August.

“The Department of Children and Family Services is deeply saddened by the tragic death of our colleague, Deidre Silas," DCFS Director Marc D. Smith told Oxygen.com in a statement. "Our most heartfelt condolences, thoughts and prayers are with her family during this very difficult time."

"Social work is more than just a job, it is a calling," Smith added. "Deidre responded to this call and dedicated herself to the children, families and communities she served, and we will be forever grateful for her work. She was an incredible person, and her brightness and positivity will be missed not only by her family and friends, but also her second family at DCFS.”

Silas had previously worked in behavioral health for more than half a decade.

Roberta Lynch, the executive director of the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees, also said her agency was “heartbroken” by Silas’ killing.

“This tragedy is a stark reminder that frontline DCFS employees like Deidre do demanding, dangerous and essential jobs every day, often despite inadequate resources and tremendous stress,” Lynch told the Associated Press.

Silas leaves behind a husband and two children, family said.

“Why do you really attack my daughter? Silas’ father, Roy Graham said during an interview with the Associated Press. "I can’t understand why you’d do that. I know she’d be begging for her life. Why? She didn’t come to talk to you…That’s brutal, mischievous, hardcore stuff.”

Reed’s bond was set at $5 million. He’s currently in custody at a Sangamon County detention facility, according to online jail records . It’s unclear if he’s retained legal representation.

A spokesperson for Sangamon County State’s Attorney Dan Wright’s office wasn’t immediately available for comment regarding the open case when contacted by Oxygen.com on Monday afternoon.

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Social workers’ field safety in Illinois remains concern after killing

Man charged with fatally stabbing dcfs worker.

A child welfare worker was stabbed to death while visiting a home in downstate Illinois Tuesday, and a man who had been living there is facing murder charges.

SPRINGFIELD, Ill. - Illinois officials are seeking answers after the killing last week of a state child welfare worker during a home visit — the second such tragedy to occur in less than five years.

Deidre Silas, an investigator with the Illinois Department of Children and Family Services, was stabbed to death last Tuesday when she responded to a call of possible endangerment of children in a home in the central Illinois town of Thayer.

A man related to one or more of the six children who were at home at the time, 32-year-old Benjamin Reed, is being held in the Sangamon County Jail without bond on first-degree murder and other charges. An attempt by The Associated Press to reach Reed’s attorney on Friday was unsuccessful.

Silas’ death is the second time in four-and-a-half years that state officials and the social work community are asking what should have been done, but wasn’t, to prevent it. DCFS investigator Pamela Knight, 59, died following a brutal beating while attempting to remove an endangered child from his father in September 2017.

Like Silas, Knight was alone when she was attacked. Officials at DCFS, which has 23,000 children under its care, have not released details about the circumstances behind Silas’ visit to the home in Thayer, located 23 miles (37 kilometers) south of Springfield, but DCFS Director Marc Smith said last week that agency protocol was followed.

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The attack on Silas also marked the 21st time since 2017 that caseworkers were subject to "threats or acts of violence" during 2.5 million home visits in Illinois, agency spokesman Bill McCaffrey said.

Her death has raised questions of why case workers are sent into potentially volatile environments alone, and whether understaffing — a problem that has plagued DCFS for decades despite a federal consent decree regulating it — affects the response of caseworkers in the field.

"DCFS, if you’re sending someone into a situation like this, just send two at a time," Silas’ father, Roy Graham, said last week. "Whether it’s a male and female or two males or two females, either way, but send two per visit, not just one."

Police agencies historically have been willing and able to help. That cooperation was strengthened after Knight’s death. A law signed in 2018 allows law enforcement officers to cross into another jurisdiction to back up a home visit. Knight, who was based in Sterling, did have police backup initially.

But the boy Knight was seeking was not at his father’s home, forcing Knight to check his grandparents’ home in the next county. She decided that waiting for a new police agency to accompany her jeopardized the boy’s safety. The boy’s father met her at the second stop, and beat and kicked her so severely that she suffered brain damage and died five months later.

Benjamin H. Reed, 32, was arrested just before 6:30 p.m. and was charged with first-degree murder and aggravated battery with a deadly weapon, the Sangamon County sheriff’s office said. (Sangamon County sheriff’s office)

Arnold Black, a child protection specialist and supervisor in the DCFS Urbana office, said that any time a case worker or a supervisor believes there should be two workers on a home visit, it’s approved. And there is no hesitancy to seek police backup, as outlined in the agency’s administrative procedures on field safety.

"Sometimes, taking the police can agitate the client. You’ve got to know the family ... You have some families that are going to yell and scream at you for the first five minutes, but then they’re going to let you in," Black said. "But if it’s a newer case, or if it’s in a rural area, I have no problem pulling another worker to go."

The problem, though, is that pairing workers stretches the workforce, sometimes resulting in plucking employees from other offices, Black said. The Urbana office has a worker shortage of more than 6% and agents on Black’s team have caseloads of 30 to 50 families per worker, in many cases exceeding the limit of a 1988 federal consent decree that limits to 12 the number of new cases assigned monthly to each worker.

The Knight tragedy also resulted, with a push from the DCFS employees’ union, the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees Council 31, in office-based security guards and improved access to law enforcement records of people to be visited.

Black, a member of the AFSCME committee which quarterly discusses issues with DCFS management, said the workforce continues to push for other changes it supports.

Those changes include ongoing self-defense and de-escalation training from the Illinois State Police, public service announcements to familiarize the public with caseworkers and their duties and a law enforcement database like in Cook County that records not only arrests and convictions but any interaction police have with a particular address.

Newly hired investigators, who make about $55,000 a year, must successfully complete a six-week "foundations" training session that includes safety precautions, DCFS spokesman Bill McCaffrey said. Once in the field, they continue under a supervisor’s tutelage and must complete a "workplace and field safety" training session within 90 days of starting.

Sen. Sara Feigenholtz, a Chicago Democrat and leader on child-welfare issues, said DCFS needs to build an infrastructure, with private sector cooperation, to recruit and retain employees. She anticipates more immediate safety legislation when the facts of Silas’ death are public.

"If there are any other resources we can give our frontline workers, you’ll be sure that we’re going to be looking to see how we avoid this kind of situation," Feigenholtz said.

Illinois child welfare worker fatally stabbed during visit

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An Illinois child welfare worker was stabbed to death during a home visit in a town south of Springfield, authorities said.

Diedre Silas, 36, an investigator for the state Department of Children and Family Services, was conducting a welfare check Tuesday on children living in the home in Thayer when she was stabbed, according to Sangamon County Sheriff Jack Campbell.

Thayer is located 23 miles (37 kilometers) south of the capital city.

Benjamin Reed, 32, who authorities say lived in the home, faces charges of first-degree murder, aggravated battery and unlawful restraint. Sangamon County State’s Attorney Dan Wright said conviction could put Reed in prison for life if a court finds the conduct in Silas’ death “exceptionally brutal, heinous and indicative of wanton cruelty.”

Authorities arrived at the scene just before 4:30 p.m. Tuesday and found what appeared to be blood near the door. They forced their way into the house and found the victim dead inside. Police obtained a search warrant and collected evidence that helped them find Reed at a Decatur hospital around 6:30 p.m., authorities said.

Reed was treated for a cut on the hand and taken to the Sangamon County Jail, where bond for his release was set at $5 million on Wednesday morning.

But at a late Wednesday news conference, Wright parried questions about why Silas was visiting the home, why she went alone and whether there was a suspected threat there, saying that responses “are relevant enough to this investigation that it’s not appropriate to answer those questions.”

That frustrated members of Silas’ family, including her 61-year-old father Roy Graham, who brought Diedre from Jamaica when she was 10. He saw the married mother of two develop her love for helping children as early as high school, mentoring grade school children and volunteering for Sparc, a nonprofit devoted to supporting people with intellectual and developmental disabilities.

“Why do you really attack my daughter? I can’t understand why you’d do that,” Graham said after then news conference. “I know she’d be begging for her life. Why? She didn’t come to talk to you.... That’s brutal, mischievous, hardcore stuff.”

Six children of undisclosed ages were present at the time of the incident, Campbell said, but he was unaware if they witnessed anything. They were in protective custody on Wednesday. Campbell said he believes Reed is related to one or more of the children and that several adults were living in the home, but he did not elaborate.

DCFS Director Marc Smith said the last investigator to be killed on duty occurred about four years ago. Smith said the agency trains its staff in how to approach various situations, including going into a volatile environment. Staff members decide whether to go alone, in pairs, or summon police protection, he said.

“In this tragic circumstance, the family we were there to help had a negative response to our presence,” Smith said. “We’re not avoiding any responsibility. We take responsibility for all of our staff, as well as the children and families that we serve. We will continue to work, we will continue to improve our policies and procedures as we can.”

Silas had just joined the department in August after working in the behavioral health field for seven years at the Department of Juvenile Justice, according to a statement by Council 31 of the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees, which represents DCFS employees.

“This tragedy is a stark reminder that frontline DCFS employees like Deidre do demanding, dangerous and essential jobs every day, often despite inadequate resources and tremendous stress,” AFSCME Executive Director Roberta Lynch said.

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Illinois child welfare worker fatally stabbed during home visit.

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An Illinois child welfare worker was stabbed to death as she conducted a visit at a home with six children, authorities said.

Benjamin Reed, 32, has been arrested over the attack on 36-year-old Deidre Silas after she entered his Thayler home alone for the welfare check on Tuesday afternoon.

Authorities haven’t revealed why Silas — who was an investigator for the state Department of Children and Family Services — was carrying out the checks, or whether there were any known threats at the home.

Reed, who is believed to be related to at least one of the children, was taken into custody just hours after the stabbing when cops found him at a nearby hospital.

He was being treated for a cut to his hand, Sangamon County Sheriff Jack Campbell said.

It wasn’t clear if any of the kids witnessed the violence inside the home — but all of them were in protective custody as of Wednesday, the sheriff said.

DCFS Director Marc Smith said the agency trains its staff in how to approach various situations, including going into a volatile environment.

He added that staff members decide whether to go alone, in pairs or ask for police assistance.

“In this tragic circumstance, the family we were there to help had a negative response to our presence,” Smith said.

“We’re not avoiding any responsibility. We take responsibility for all of our staff, as well as the children and families that we serve. We will continue to work, we will continue to improve our policies and procedures as we can.”

Silas had only just joined the department last August after working for seven years in the behavioral health field at the Department of Juvenile Justice.

Reed is facing charges of first-degree murder, aggravated battery and unlawful restraint over Silas’ death.

He is being held on a $5 million bond.

With Post wires

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Social Workers' Field Safety Remains Concern After Killing

Deidre silas' death is the second time in four-and-a-half years that state officials and the social work community are asking what should have been done, but wasn't, to prevent it, by john o'connor • published january 9, 2022 • updated on january 9, 2022 at 11:16 am.

Illinois officials are seeking answers after the killing last week of a state child welfare worker during a home visit — the second such tragedy to occur in less than five years.

Deidre Silas, an investigator with the Illinois Department of Children and Family Services, was stabbed to death last Tuesday when she responded to a call of possible endangerment of children in a home in the central Illinois town of Thayer.

A man related to one or more of the six children who were at home at the time, 32-year-old Benjamin Reed, is being held in the Sangamon County Jail without bond on first-degree murder and other charges. An attempt by The Associated Press to reach Reed's attorney on Friday was unsuccessful.

Silas' death is the second time in four-and-a-half years that state officials and the social work community are asking what should have been done, but wasn't, to prevent it. DCFS investigator Pamela Knight, 59, died following a brutal beating while attempting to remove an endangered child from his father in September 2017.

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Like Silas, Knight was alone when she was attacked. Officials at DCFS, which has 23,000 children under its care, have not released details about the circumstances behind Silas’ visit to the home in Thayer, located 23 miles (37 kilometers) south of Springfield, but DCFS Director Marc Smith said last week that agency protocol was followed.

The attack on Silas also marked the 21st time since 2017 that caseworkers were subject to “threats or acts of violence” during 2.5 million home visits in Illinois, agency spokesman Bill McCaffrey said.

Her death has raised questions of why case workers are sent into potentially volatile environments alone, and whether understaffing — a problem that has plagued DCFS for decades despite a federal consent decree regulating it — affects the response of caseworkers in the field.

“DCFS, if you’re sending someone into a situation like this, just send two at a time,” Silas’ father, Roy Graham, said last week. “Whether it’s a male and female or two males or two females, either way, but send two per visit, not just one.”

Police agencies historically have been willing and able to help. That cooperation was strengthened after Knight's death. A law signed in 2018 allows law enforcement officers to cross into another jurisdiction to back up a home visit. Knight, who was based in Sterling, did have police backup initially.

But the boy Knight was seeking was not at his father's home, forcing Knight to check his grandparents' home in the next county. She decided that waiting for a new police agency to accompany her jeopardized the boy's safety. The boy's father met her at the second stop, and beat and kicked her so severely that she suffered brain damage and died five months later.

Arnold Black, a child protection specialist and supervisor in the DCFS Urbana office, said that any time a case worker or a supervisor believes there should be two workers on a home visit, it's approved. And there is no hesitancy to seek police backup, as outlined in the agency's administrative procedures on field safety.

“Sometimes, taking the police can agitate the client. You've got to know the family ... You have some families that are going to yell and scream at you for the first five minutes, but then they’re going to let you in," Black said. “But if it’s a newer case, or if it’s in a rural area, I have no problem pulling another worker to go.”

The problem, though, is that pairing workers stretches the workforce, sometimes resulting in plucking employees from other offices, Black said. The Urbana office has a worker shortage of more than 6% and agents on Black's team have caseloads of 30 to 50 families per worker, in many cases exceeding the limit of a 1988 federal consent decree that limits to 12 the number of new cases assigned monthly to each worker.

The Knight tragedy also resulted, with a push from the DCFS employees' union, the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees Council 31, in office-based security guards and improved access to law enforcement records of people to be visited.

Black, a member of the AFSCME committee which quarterly discusses issues with DCFS management, said the workforce continues to push for other changes it supports.

Those changes include ongoing self-defense and de-escalation training from the Illinois State Police, public service announcements to familiarize the public with caseworkers and their duties and a law enforcement database like in Cook County that records not only arrests and convictions but any interaction police have with a particular address.

Newly hired investigators, who make about $55,000 a year, must successfully complete a six-week “foundations” training session that includes safety precautions, DCFS spokesman Bill McCaffrey said. Once in the field, they continue under a supervisor's tutelage and must complete a “workplace and field safety” training session within 90 days of starting.

Sen. Sara Feigenholtz, a Chicago Democrat and leader on child-welfare issues, said DCFS needs to build an infrastructure, with private sector cooperation, to recruit and retain employees. She anticipates more immediate safety legislation when the facts of Silas' death are public.

“If there are any other resources we can give our frontline workers, you’ll be sure that we’re going to be looking to see how we avoid this kind of situation,” Feigenholtz said.

Follow Political Writer John O’Connor at https://twitter.com/apoconnor

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Youth Today

Social workers’ field safety remains concern after killing

SPRINGFIELD, Ill. (AP) — Illinois officials are seeking answers after the killing last week of a state child welfare worker during a home visit — the second such tragedy to occur in less than five years.

Deidre Silas, an investigator with the Illinois Department of Children and Family Services, was stabbed to death last Tuesday when she responded to a call of possible endangerment of children in a home in the central Illinois town of Thayer.

A man related to one or more of the six children who were at home at the time, 32-year-old Benjamin Reed, is being held in the Sangamon County Jail without bond on first-degree murder and other charges. An attempt by The Associated Press to reach Reed’s attorney on Friday was unsuccessful.

Silas’ death is the second time in four-and-a-half years that state officials and the social work community are asking what should have been done, but wasn’t, to prevent it. DCFS investigator Pamela Knight, 59, died following a brutal beating while attempting to remove an endangered child from his father in September 2017.

Like Silas, Knight was alone when she was attacked. Officials at DCFS, which has 23,000 children under its care, have not released details about the circumstances behind Silas’ visit to the home in Thayer, located 23 miles (37 kilometers) south of Springfield, but DCFS Director Marc Smith said last week that agency protocol was followed.

The attack on Silas also marked the 21st time since 2017 that caseworkers were subject to “threats or acts of violence” during 2.5 million home visits in Illinois, agency spokesman Bill McCaffrey said.

Her death has raised questions of why case workers are sent into potentially volatile environments alone, and whether understaffing — a problem that has plagued DCFS for decades despite a federal consent decree regulating it — affects the response of caseworkers in the field.

“DCFS, if you’re sending someone into a situation like this, just send two at a time,” Silas’ father, Roy Graham, said last week. “Whether it’s a male and female or two males or two females, either way, but send two per visit, not just one.”

Police agencies historically have been willing and able to help. That cooperation was strengthened after Knight’s death. A law signed in 2018 allows law enforcement officers to cross into another jurisdiction to back up a home visit. Knight, who was based in Sterling, did have police backup initially.

But the boy Knight was seeking was not at his father’s home, forcing Knight to check his grandparents’ home in the next county. She decided that waiting for a new police agency to accompany her jeopardized the boy’s safety. The boy’s father met her at the second stop, and beat and kicked her so severely that she suffered brain damage and died five months later.

Arnold Black, a child protection specialist and supervisor in the DCFS Urbana office, said that any time a case worker or a supervisor believes there should be two workers on a home visit, it’s approved. And there is no hesitancy to seek police backup, as outlined in the agency’s administrative procedures on field safety.

“Sometimes, taking the police can agitate the client. You’ve got to know the family … You have some families that are going to yell and scream at you for the first five minutes, but then they’re going to let you in,” Black said. “But if it’s a newer case, or if it’s in a rural area, I have no problem pulling another worker to go.”

The problem, though, is that pairing workers stretches the workforce, sometimes resulting in plucking employees from other offices, Black said. The Urbana office has a worker shortage of more than 6% and agents on Black’s team have caseloads of 30 to 50 families per worker, in many cases exceeding the limit of a 1988 federal consent decree that limits to 12 the number of new cases assigned monthly to each worker.

The Knight tragedy also resulted, with a push from the DCFS employees’ union, the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees Council 31, in office-based security guards and improved access to law enforcement records of people to be visited.

Black, a member of the AFSCME committee which quarterly discusses issues with DCFS management, said the workforce continues to push for other changes it supports.

Those changes include ongoing self-defense and de-escalation training from the Illinois State Police, public service announcements to familiarize the public with caseworkers and their duties and a law enforcement database like in Cook County that records not only arrests and convictions but any interaction police have with a particular address.

Newly hired investigators, who make about $55,000 a year, must successfully complete a six-week “foundations” training session that includes safety precautions, DCFS spokesman Bill McCaffrey said. Once in the field, they continue under a supervisor’s tutelage and must complete a “workplace and field safety” training session within 90 days of starting.

Sen. Sara Feigenholtz, a Chicago Democrat and leader on child-welfare issues, said DCFS needs to build an infrastructure, with private sector cooperation, to recruit and retain employees. She anticipates more immediate safety legislation when the facts of Silas’ death are public.

“If there are any other resources we can give our frontline workers, you’ll be sure that we’re going to be looking to see how we avoid this kind of situation,” Feigenholtz said. ___ Follow Political Writer John O’Connor at https://twitter.com/apoconnor

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Social worker stabbed to death during home visit

Watch CBS News

Stephanie Ross, Fla. case worker, stabbed to death by patient during home visit, police say

By Crimesider Staff

December 13, 2012 / 11:59 AM EST / CBS News

(CBS/AP) DADE CITY, Fla. - Stephanie Ross, a 25-year-old health care caseworker who visited a client at his home alone, was stabbed to death by her patient Monday, police say.

Ross reportedly knew there was something that made her "very uncomfortable" about the 53-year-old man, even previously writing in his file that two people should visit him in the future.

Yet Ross still traveled alone to Lucious Smith's apartment the morning of December 10th, and police said the ex-con with a history of violence inexplicably chased her down the street, stabbing her to death with a butcher knife.

Ross' death is not the first time an in-home visit by a health care professional has turned deadly. In fact, some states have added safeguards to prevent attacks, such as pairing them up with another worker for home visits or assigning a police escort, but the additional measures are sometimes too costly for states and private companies.

"It may be if the risk is too high you don't send two people out, you ask the client to come in or meet in a different place or postpone the visit," Tracy Whitaker, of the National Association of Social Workers, told The Associated Press. "Unfortunately, the money gets found after there's a tragedy."

Smith was being held without bail at the Pasco County jail on a first-degree murder charge. It is unclear whether he has an attorney.

Ross became a service coordinator for Maryland-based Integra Health Management in September and wanted to help people with chronic illnesses, the company said in a statement. She had been on the job for about a month when she first visited Smith in Dade City, a small city about 30 miles north of Tampa

It is unclear why Ross went on the visit by herself Monday, even after she had made a note that she felt "very uncomfortable" with Smith.

Although Smith's illness has not been released, it is known that Smith had previous trouble with the law. Authorities had received "50 or 60 calls" about him since 2006, ranging from trespassing to battery to drunken, disorderly behavior, Dade City police officer Brian Uppercue told The Associated Press. Neighbors said he argued with nearly everyone around him and was banned from a nearby convenience store.

Smith spent seven years in prison for aggravated battery with a deadly weapon and was released in 2005.

After the attack, Ross was driven to the hospital by a motorist who saw her lying on the street bleeding. She died a shortly afterwards.

According to an eyewitness, Smith sat outside his apartment after the stabbing and a few minutes later, police arrived.

"We knew right away that he was involved," Uppercue said.

Dee Brown, Integra's chief operating officer called the incident an "especially tragic loss."

"We take the safety and well-being of our employees very seriously and are committed to assuring ongoing compliance with existing safety practices and incorporation of measures that might further reduce avoidable risk to our employees," Brown said in a statement.

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Milwaukee police said a 75-year-old was stabbed to death inside a home located near 89th and Adler streets around 4 a.m. Tuesday.

The victim was identified Wednesday as Robert De Pons.

Police said they arrested a 29-year-old man Tuesday in what they call a domestic violence-related incident.

Anyone with any information is asked to contact Milwaukee police at 414-935-7360 or, to remain anonymous, contact Crime Stoppers at 414-224-Tips.

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The Opening Days of Trump’s First Criminal Trial

Here’s what has happened so far in the unprecedented proceedings against a former u.s. president..

This transcript was created using speech recognition software. While it has been reviewed by human transcribers, it may contain errors. Please review the episode audio before quoting from this transcript and email [email protected] with any questions.

It’s the first day of the Trump trial and just walking out the door in my house. It’s a beautiful day, 6:11 AM. The thing that keeps running through my head is it’s kind of amazing that hundreds of jurors are going to show up at the Manhattan courthouse. And some of them are going to know what they’re there for — probably talking to their friends, their relatives about it.

Some of them are going to learn this morning talking to other jurors in line, asking what all the fuss is about. But I really do imagine that there’s going to be at least one potential juror who, headphones on, getting into court. Here they’re going to be there for the first criminal trial of Donald J. Trump. And just, I mean, how would you react?

[MUSIC PLAYING]

From “The New York Times,” I’m Michael Barbaro. This is “The Daily.” Today, what it’s been like inside the lower Manhattan courtroom, where political and legal history are being made? My colleague, Jonah Bromwich, on the opening days of the first criminal trial of a US President. It’s Thursday, April 18.

Is that his mic? Hi, there.

Hello. How are you?

I’m doing good.

OK. Thank you for coming in, Jonah —

Thank you for having me.

— in the middle of a trial. Can you just explain why you’re able to even be here?

Sure. So we happen to be off on Wednesdays during trial, so.

We being not “The New York Times,” but the courts.

That’s right.

Which is why we’re taping with you. And because we now have two full court days of this history-making trial now under our belts. And the thing about this trial that’s so interesting is that there are no cameras in the courtroom for the wider world.

There’s no audio recordings. So all we really have is and your eyes and your notebook, maybe your laptop. And so we’re hoping you can reconstruct for us the scene of the first two days of this trial and really the highlights.

Yeah, I’d be happy to. So on Monday morning, I left the subway. It’s before 7:00 AM. The sun is just rising over these grandiose court buildings in lower Manhattan.

I’m about to turn left onto Center Street. I’m right in front of the big municipal building.

And I turn onto Center Street. That’s where the courthouses are.

I’m crossing.

And I expected to see a big crowd. And it was even bigger than I had anticipated.

Here we go. Here we go. Here we go. Now, I finally see the crowd.

You have camera banks. You have reporters. You have the beginnings of what will eventually become a protest. And you have this most New York thing, which is just a big crowd of people.

[CHUCKLES]: Who just know something is going on.

That’s right. And what they know is going on is, of course, the first trial of an American president.

All right, I’m passing the camera, folks. Camera, camera, camera, camera. Here we go.

Let’s start with Sharon Crowley live outside the courthouse in Lower Manhattan.

I want to get right to ABC’S Aaron Katersky who’s outside of the courthouse.

Robert Costa is following it outside the courthouse in Lower Manhattan. Bob, I saw the satellite trucks lined up all in a row. Good morning.

Talk to us how we got here exactly.

So this is the case that was brought by the Manhattan district attorney. So prosecutors have accused Donald Trump of covering up the actions of his former fixer, Michael Cohen, after Cohen paid hush money to Stormy Daniels. Stormy Daniels had a story about having had sex with Donald Trump, which Trump has always denied.

Cohen paid her money, and then Trump reimbursed Cohen. And prosecutors say that Trump essentially defrauded the American people because he hid this information that could have been very important for the election from those people when he reimbursed Cohen.

Right. And as I remember it, he also misrepresented what that reimbursement was. Claimed it was a legal fee when, in fact, it was just reimbursing Michael Cohen for a hush money payment.

Exactly, yeah. He definitely didn’t say reimbursement for hush money payment to Stormy Daniels. It’s a cover up case. It’s a case about hiding information you don’t want people to see.

Right. And of course, the context of all this is that it is in the middle of a presidential election. It’s 2016. Trump wants to keep this secret, prosecutors allege, so that the American public doesn’t know about it and potentially hold it against him.

Right. And prosecutors are telling a story about election interference. They’re saying that Trump interfered with an election. And Trump himself is also using the phrase “election interference.” But he’s painting the trial itself as election interference as he now runs again in 2024.

Fascinating.

And because we’re in Manhattan, and because the jury pool is going to be largely Democratic, and the judge is a Democrat, and the district attorney is a Democrat, Trump keeps claiming he cannot get a fair shake. This is democrat central. And in democrat central, Trump doesn’t have a chance.

OK. So, what happens once you actually enter the courthouse?

Outside, there’s all this fanfare. But inside, it’s a little bit business as usual. So I go up to the 15th floor, and I walk into the courtroom, and I sit down, and it’s the same old courtroom. And we’re sitting and waiting for the former president.

Around 9:30, Trump walks in. He looks thin. He looks a little tired, kind of slumping forward, as if to say with his body like let’s get this over with. Here we go.

The judge walks in a little bit after that. And we think we’re all set for the trial to start, but that’s not what happens here. And in fact, there are a series of legal arguments about what the trial is going to look like and what evidence is going to be allowed in.

So, for example, prosecutors ask that they be allowed to admit into evidence headlines from “The National Enquirer” that were attacks on Trump’s 2016 opponents — on Ted Cruz, on Marco Rubio, on Ben Carson.

Because prosecutors are in some sense putting Trump’s 2016 campaign on trial. These headlines are a big part of that because what prosecutors say they show is that Trump had this ongoing deal with “The National Enquirer.” And the publisher would promote him, and it would publish damaging stories about his opponents. And then crucially, it would protect Trump from negative stories. And that’s exactly what prosecutors say happened with Stormy Daniels. That “The National Enquirer” tipped Cohen off about Stormy Daniels trying to sell her story of having had sex with Donald Trump, which he denies. And that led to the hush money payment to her. So what prosecutors are doing overall with these headlines is establishing a pattern of conduct. And that conduct, they say, was an attempt to influence the election in Trump’s favor.

And the judge agrees. He’s going to admit this evidence. And this is a pretty big win for the prosecution. But even though they win that one, they’re not winning everything.

They lose some important arguments here. One of them was that after the Access Hollywood tape came out, there were allegations of sexual assault against Donald Trump. And you know this, Michael, because you reported two of them — two of the three in question at this very trial.

Prosecutors had hoped to talk about those during trial in front of the jury to show the jurors that the Trump campaign was really, really focused on pushing back against bad press in the wake of the Access Hollywood tape in which Trump seemed to describe sexual assault. That was a big problem for the campaign. Campaign did everything it could to push back, including against these allegations that surfaced in the wake of the tape.

But the judge, saying that the allegations are hearsay — that they’re based on the women’s stories — says absolutely not. That is incredibly prejudicial to the defendant.

Interesting.

And that Donald Trump would actually not get a fair trial were those allegations to be mentioned. And so he will not let those in. The jurors will not hear about them.

So this is a setback, of course, for the prosecution, a victory for Trump’s legal team.

It’s a setback. And it also just shows you how these pre-trial motions shape the context of the trial. Think of the trial as a venue like a theater or an athletic contest of some sort. And these pre-trial motions are about what gets led into the arena and what stays out. The sexual assault allegations — out. “The National Enquirer” headlines — in.

OK. And how is Trump sitting there at the defense table reacting to these pre-trial motion rulings from the judge?

Well, as I’ve just said, this is very important stuff for his trial.

Right. Hugely important.

But it’s all happening in legal language, and I’m decoding it for you. But if you were sitting there listening to it, you might get a little lost, and you might get a little bored. And Trump, who is not involved in these arguments, seems to fall asleep.

Seems to fall asleep — you’re seeing this with your own eyes.

What we’re seeing, overall, including our colleague, Maggie Haberman, who’s in the overflow room and has a direct view of Trump’s face — I’m sitting behind him in the courtroom, so I can’t see his face that well.

You guys are double teaming this.

That’s right. I’m sitting behind him, but Maggie is sitting in front of him. And what she sees is not only that his eyes are closed. That wouldn’t get you to he is asleep.

And we have to be really careful about reporting that he’s asleep, even if it seems like a frivolous thing. But what happens is that his head is dropping down to his chest, and then it’s snapping back up. So you’ve seen that, when a student —

I’ve done that.

(CHUCKLES) Yeah. We all kind of know that feeling of snapping awake suddenly. And we see the head motion, and it happens several times.

Lawyers kind of bothering him, not quite shaking him, but certainly trying to get his attention. And that head snapping motion, we felt confident enough to report that Trump fell asleep.

During his own criminal trial’s opening day.

Does someone eventually wake him up?

He wakes up. He wakes up. And in fact, in the afternoon, he’s much more animated. It’s almost as if he wants to be seen being very much awake.

Right. So once these pre-trial motions are ruled on and Trump is snapped back to attention, what happens?

Well, what happens in the courtroom is that the trial begins. The first trial of an American president is now in session. And what marks that beginning is jurors walking into the room one by one — many of them kind of craning their necks over at Donald Trump, giggling, raising their eyebrows at each other, filing into the room, and being sworn in by the judge. And that swearing in marks the official beginning of the trial.

The beginning is jury selection, and it’s often overlooked. It’s not dramatized in our kind of courtroom dramas in the same way. But it’s so important. It’s one of the most important parts of the case. Because whoever sits on the jury, these are the 12 people who are going to decide whether Trump is guilty or whether Trump is innocent.

So how does jury selection actually look and feel and go?

So, jury selection is a winnowing process. And in order to do that, you have to have these people go through a bunch of different hurdles. So the first hurdle is, after the judge describes the case, he asks the group — and there are just short of 100 of them — whether they can be fair and impartial. And says that if they can’t, they should leave. And more than half the group is instantly gone.

So after we do this big mass excusal, we’re left with the smaller group. And so now, jurors are getting called in smaller groups to the jury box. And what they’re going to do there is they’re going to answer this questionnaire.

And this part of the process is really conducted by the judge. The lawyers are involved. They’re listening, but they’re not yet asking questions of the jurors themselves.

And what’s on the questionnaire?

Well, it’s 42 questions. And the questions include, their education, their professional histories, their hobbies, what they like to do whether you’re a member of QAnon or Antifa.

Whether you’re far left or far right.

That’s right. Whether you’ve read “The Art of the Deal,” Trump’s book, which some prospective jurors had.

Right. It was a bestseller in its time.

That’s right. And some of it can be answered in yes/no questions, but some of it can be answered more at length. So some of the prospective jurors are going very, very fast. Yes, no, no, no, yes.

Right. Because this is an oral questionnaire.

That’s right. But some of them are taking their time. They’re expanding on their hobbies. So the potential juror in seat 3, for example, is talking about her hobbies. And she says some running, hiking. And then she said, I like to go to the club, and it got a huge laugh. And you get that kind of thing in jury selection, which is one of the reasons it’s so fun. It’s the height of normality in this situation that is anything but normal.

Right. The most banal answer possible delivered in front of the former president And current Republican nominee for president.

Well, that’s one of the fascinating parts about all this, right? is that they’re answering in front of Trump. And they’re answering questions about Trump in front of Trump. He doesn’t react all that much. But whenever someone says they’ve read “The Art of the Deal —” and there are a few of those — he kind of nods appreciatively, smiles. He likes that. It’s very clear. But because there are so many questions, this is taking forever, especially when people are choosing to answer and elaborate and digress.

This is when you fall asleep.

This Is. When I would have fallen asleep if I were a normal person.

And by the end of the day. Where does jury selection stand?

Well, the questionnaire is another device for shrinking that jury pool. And so the questionnaire has almost these little obstacles or roadblocks, including, in fact, a question that jurors have seen before — whether they would have any problem being fair and impartial?

Hmm. And they ask it again.

They’re asked it again. And they’re asked in this more individualized way. The judge is questioning them. They’re responding.

So, remember that woman who said she liked to go to the club got a big laugh. She reaches question 34. And question 34 reads, “Do you have any strong opinions or firmly-held beliefs about former President Donald Trump or the fact that he is a current candidate for president that would interfere with your ability to be a fair and impartial juror?” She said, yes, she does have an opinion that would prevent her from being fair and impartial. And she, too, is excused.

So that’s how it works. People answer the questionnaire, and they get excused in that way, or they have a scheduling conflict once they reach the jury box. And so to answer your question, Michael. At the end of day one, given all these problems with the questionnaire and the length of time it’s taken to respond to and people getting dismissed based on their answers, there is not a single juror seated for this trial.

And it’s starting to look like this is going to be a really hard case for which to find an impartial jury.

That’s the feeling in the room, yeah.

We’ll be right back.

So Jonah, let’s turn to day 2. What does jury selection look like on Tuesday?

So when the day begins, it looks almost exactly like it looked when the day ended on Monday. We’re still with the questionnaire, getting some interesting answers. But even though it feels like we’re going slow, we are going.

And so we’ve gone from about 100 people to now there’s about 24 the room there’s 18 the jury box. And by the time we hit lunch, all those people have answered all those questions, and we are ready for the next step in the process.

Voir dire. And what it is the heart of jury selection. This is the point where the lawyers themselves finally get to interview the jurors. And we get so much information from this moment because the lawyers ask questions based on what they want out of the jurors.

So the prosecution is asking all these different kinds of questions. The first round of wajir is done by a guy named Joshua Steinglass, a very experienced trial lawyer with the Manhattan District Attorney’s Office. And he’s providing all these hypotheticals. I’ll give you one example because I found this one really, really interesting. He provides a hypothetical about a man who wants his wife killed and essentially hires a hitman to do it. And what he asked the jurors is, if that case were before you, would you be able to see that the man who hired the hitman was a part of this crime?

And of course, what he’s really getting at is, can you accept that even though Michael Cohen, Trump’s fixer, made this payment, Trump is the guy who hired him to do it?

That’s right. If there are other people involved, will jurors still be able to see Donald Trump’s hands behind it all?

Fascinating. And what were some of the responses?

People mostly said, yes, we accept that. So that’s how the prosecution did it.

But the defense had a totally different method of voir dire. They were very focused on their client and people’s opinions about their client.

So what kind of questions do we get from them?

So the lawyer, Todd Blanche, is asking people, what do you make of President Trump? What do you think of President Trump?

And what are some of the responses to that?

Well, there’s this incredible exchange with one of the jurors who absolutely refuses to give his opinion of Donald Trump. They go back and forth and back and forth. And the juror keeps insisting you don’t need to know my opinion of him. All you need to know is that I’m going to be fair and impartial, like I said. And Blanch pushes, and the guy pushes back. And the only way the guy budges is he finally kind of confesses almost at the end that, yes, I am a Democrat, and that’s all we get.

And what ends up happening to this potential juror?

Believe it or not, he got dismissed.

[LAUGHS]: I can believe it. And of course, it’s worth saying that this guy and everybody else is being asked that question just feet from Trump himself.

That’s right. And you might think you were going to get a really kind of spicy, like, popcorn emoji-type exchange from that. But because these are now jurors who have said they can be fair and impartial, who, to some extent, want to be on this jury or at least wouldn’t mind being on this jury, they’re being very restrained.

Mostly, what they are emphasizing — much like that guy just described dis — is that they can be fair. They can be impartial. There’s one woman who gives this really remarkable answer.

She says, I thought about this last night. I stayed up all night. I couldn’t sleep, thinking about whether I could be fair. It’s really important to me, and I can.

What ends up happening to that particular juror?

She’s also dismissed. And she’s dismissed without any reason at all. The defense decides it doesn’t like her. It doesn’t want her on the jury. And they have a certain number of chances to just get rid of jurors — no questions asked.

Other jurors are getting dismissed for cause — I’m doing air quotes with my hands — which means that the lawyers have argued they actually revealed themselves through their answers or through old social media posts, which are brought up in the courtroom, to be either non-credible, meaning they’ve said they can be fair and they can’t, or somehow too biased to be on the jury.

Wait, can I just dial into that for a second? Are lawyers researching the jurors in real time going online and saying — I’m making this up — but Jonah Bromwich is a potential juror, and I’m going to go off into my little corner of the courtroom and Google everything you’ve ever said? Is that what’s happening in the room?

Yeah, there’s a whole profession dedicated to that. It’s called jury consultant, and they’re very good at finding information on people in a hurry. And it certainly looked as if they were in play.

Did a social media post end up getting anybody kicked off this jury?

Yes, there were posts from 2016 era internet. You’ll remember that time as a very heated one on the internet, Facebook memes are a big thing. And so there’s all kinds of lock him up type memes and rhetoric. And some of the potential jurors here have used those. And those jurors are dismissed for a reason.

So we have these two types of dismissals, right? We have these peremptory dismissals — no reason at all given. And we have for cause dismissals.

And the process is called jury selection. But you don’t actually get selected for a jury. The thing is to make it through all these obstacles.

You’re left over.

Right. And so when certain jurors are not dismissed, and they’ve made it through all these stages, by the end of the day, we have gone from zero juror seated to seven jurors who will be participating in Donald Trump’s trial.

Got it. And without going through all seven, just give us a little bit of a sketch of who so far is on this jury. What stands out?

Well, not that much stands out. So we’ve got four men. We’ve got three women. One lives on the Upper East Side. One lives in Chelsea. Obviously, they’re from all over Manhattan.

They have these kind of very normal hobbies like spending time with family and friends. They have somewhat anonymous jobs. We’ve got two lawyers. We’ve got someone who’s worked in sales.

So there’s not that much identifying information. And that’s not an accident . One of the things that often happens with jury selection, whether it be for Donald Trump or for anyone else, is the most interesting jurors — the jurors that kind of catch your attention during the process — they get picked off because they are being so interesting that they interest one or the other side in a negative way. And soon they’re excused. So most of the jurors who are actually seated —

Are not memorable.

Are not that memorable, save one particular juror.

OK. All right, I’ll bite. What do I need to know about that one particular juror?

So let me tell you about a prospective juror who we knew as 374, who will now be juror number five. She’s a middle school teacher from Harlem. And she said that she has friends who have really strong opinions about Trump, but she herself does not. And she insisted several times, I am not a political person.

And then she said this thing that made me quite surprised that the prosecution was fine with having her on the jury. She said, quote, “President Trump speaks his mind, and I’d rather that than someone who’s in office who you don’t know what they’re thinking.”

Hmm. So she expressed approval of President Trump.

Yeah, it was mild approval. But the thing is, especially for the defense in this trial, all you need is one juror. One juror can tie up deliberations in knots, and you can end with a hung jury. And this is actually something that I saw firsthand. In 2019, I was the foreperson on a jury.

How you like that?

Yeah. And the trial was really complicated, but I had thought while we were doing the trial, oh, this is going to be a really easy decision. I thought the defendant in that case was guilty. So we get into deliberations, but there’s this one juror who keeps gumming up the works every time we seem to be making progress, getting a conversation started.

This juror proverbially throws up his hands and says, I am not convicting. This man is innocent. And we talked and we talked. And as the foreperson, I was trying to use all my skills to mediate.

But any time we made any progress, this guy would blow it up. And long story short, hung jury — big victory for the defense lawyer. And we come out of the room. And she points at this juror. The guy —

The defense lawyer.

The defense lawyer points at this juror who blew everything up. And she said, I knew it. I knew I had my guy.

OK. I don’t want to read too much into what you said about that one juror. But should I read between the lines to think that if there’s a hung jury, you wonder if it might be that juror?

That’s what everyone in the courtroom is wondering not just about this juror, but about every single person who was selected. Is this the person who swings the case for me? Is this the person who swings the case against me?

These juries are so complex. It’s 12 people who don’t know each other at the start of the trial and, by the end of the trial, have seen each other every morning and are experiencing the same things, but are not allowed to have talked about the case until deliberations start. In that moment when deliberations start —

You’re going to learn a whole lot about each other.

That’s right. There’s this alchemical moment where suddenly, it all matters. Every personality selected matters. And that’s why jury selection is so important. And that’s why these last two days are actually one of the most important parts of this trial.

OK. So by my math, this trial will require five more jurors to get to 12. I know also they’re going to need to be alternates. But from what you’re saying what looked like a really uphill battle to get an impartial jury or a jury that said it could be impartial — and Trump was very doubtful one could be found — has turned out to not be so hard to find.

That’s right. And in fact, we went from thinking, oh, boy, this is going awfully slowly, to the judge himself saying we could be doing opening arguments as soon as Monday morning. And I think that highlights something that’s really fascinating both about this trial and about the jury selection process overall.

One of the things that lawyers have been arguing about is whether or not it’s important to figure out what jurors’ opinions about Donald Trump are. And the prosecution and, I think, the judge have really said, no, that’s not the key issue here. The key issue is not whether or not people have opinions about Donald Trump.

Right. Who doesn’t have an opinion about Donald Trump?

Exactly. They’re going to. Automatically, they’re going to. The question is whether or not they can be fair and impartial. And the seven people we already have seated, and presumably the five people that we’re going to get over the next few days and however many alternates — we expect six — are all going to have answered that question, not I hate Trump; I love Trump, but I can weigh in on the former president’s innocence or guilt, and I can do it as fairly as humanly possible.

Now, Trump is not happy about this. He said after court yesterday, quote, We have a highly conflicted judge, and he’s rushing this trial.” And I think that he is going to see these beats of the system the criminal justice system as it works on him as he is experiencing it as unfair. That is typically how he talks about it and how he views it.

But what he’s getting is what defendants get. This is the system in New York, in the United States. This is its answer to how do you pick a fair jury? Well, you ask people can you be fair? And you put them through this process, and the outcome is 12 people.

And so I think we’re going to see this over and over again in this trial. We’re going to see Trump experience the criminal justice system.

And its routines.

Yeah, openings, witnesses, evidence, closings. He’s going to go through all of it. And I think, at every turn, it makes sense to expect him to say, well, this is not fair. Well, the judge is doing something wrong. Well, the prosecutors are doing something wrong. Well, the jury is doing something wrong.

But at the end of the day, he’s going to be a defendant, and he’s going to sit, mostly silently if his lawyers can make him do that, and watch this process play itself out. So the system is going to try and treat him like any other defendant, even though, of course —

— he’s not. And he is going to fight back like no other defendant would, like no other defendant could. And that tension, him pushing against the criminal justice system as it strives to treat him, as it would anyone else, is going to be a defining quality of this trial.

Well, Jonah, thank you very much. We appreciate it.

Of course. Thanks so much for having me. [MUSIC PLAYING]

PS, have you ever fallen asleep in a trial?

I have not.

[CHUCKLES]:

Here’s what else you need to know today.

It’s clear the Israelis are making a decision to act. We hope they do so in a way that does as little to escalate this as possible and in a way that, as I said —

During a visit to Jerusalem on Wednesday, Britain’s foreign Secretary left little doubt that Israel would retaliate against Iran for last weekend’s aerial attack, despite pressure from the United States and Britain to stand down. The question now is what form that retaliation will take? “The Times” reports that Israel is weighing several options, including a direct strike on Iran, a cyber attack, or targeted assassinations. And —

Look, history judges us for what we do. This is a critical time right now, critical time on the world stage.

In a plan that could threaten his job, Republican House Speaker Mike Johnson will put a series of foreign aid bills up for a vote this weekend. The bills, especially for aid to Ukraine, are strongly opposed by far-right House Republicans, at least two of whom have threatened to try to oust Johnson over the plan.

I can make a selfish decision and do something that’s different, but I’m doing here what I believe to be the right thing. I think providing lethal aid to Ukraine right now is critically important. I really do. I really — [MUSIC PLAYING]

Today’s episode was produced by Rikki Novetsky, Will Reid, Lynsea Garrison, and Rob Zubko. It was edited by Paige Cowett, contains original music by Marion Lozano, Elisheba Ittoop, and Dan Powell, and was engineered by Chris Wood. Our theme music is by Jim Brunberg and Ben Landsverk of Wonderly Lake.

That’s it for “The Daily.” I’m Michael Barbaro. See you tomorrow.

• April 19, 2024   •   30:42 The Supreme Court Takes Up Homelessness
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• April 16, 2024   •   29:29 A.I.’s Original Sin
• April 15, 2024   •   24:07 Iran’s Unprecedented Attack on Israel
• April 14, 2024   •   46:17 The Sunday Read: ‘What I Saw Working at The National Enquirer During Donald Trump’s Rise’
• April 12, 2024   •   34:23 How One Family Lost $900,000 in a Timeshare Scam
• April 11, 2024   •   28:39 The Staggering Success of Trump’s Trial Delay Tactics
• April 10, 2024   •   22:49 Trump’s Abortion Dilemma
• April 9, 2024   •   30:48 How Tesla Planted the Seeds for Its Own Potential Downfall
• April 8, 2024   •   30:28 The Eclipse Chaser
• April 7, 2024 The Sunday Read: ‘What Deathbed Visions Teach Us About Living’

Hosted by Michael Barbaro

Featuring Jonah E. Bromwich

Produced by Rikki Novetsky ,  Will Reid ,  Lynsea Garrison and Rob Szypko

Edited by Paige Cowett

Original music by Dan Powell ,  Marion Lozano and Elisheba Ittoop

Engineered by Chris Wood

Listen and follow The Daily Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Amazon Music

Political and legal history are being made in a Lower Manhattan courtroom as Donald J. Trump becomes the first former U.S. president to undergo a criminal trial.

Jonah Bromwich, who covers criminal justice in New York, explains what happened during the opening days of the trial, which is tied to Mr. Trump’s role in a hush-money payment to a porn star.

On today’s episode

Jonah E. Bromwich , who covers criminal justice in New York for The New York Times.

Background reading

Here’s a recap of the courtroom proceedings so far.

Mr. Trump’s trial enters its third day with seven jurors chosen.

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The Daily is made by Rachel Quester, Lynsea Garrison, Clare Toeniskoetter, Paige Cowett, Michael Simon Johnson, Brad Fisher, Chris Wood, Jessica Cheung, Stella Tan, Alexandra Leigh Young, Lisa Chow, Eric Krupke, Marc Georges, Luke Vander Ploeg, M.J. Davis Lin, Dan Powell, Sydney Harper, Mike Benoist, Liz O. Baylen, Asthaa Chaturvedi, Rachelle Bonja, Diana Nguyen, Marion Lozano, Corey Schreppel, Rob Szypko, Elisheba Ittoop, Mooj Zadie, Patricia Willens, Rowan Niemisto, Jody Becker, Rikki Novetsky, John Ketchum, Nina Feldman, Will Reid, Carlos Prieto, Ben Calhoun, Susan Lee, Lexie Diao, Mary Wilson, Alex Stern, Dan Farrell, Sophia Lanman, Shannon Lin, Diane Wong, Devon Taylor, Alyssa Moxley, Summer Thomad, Olivia Natt, Daniel Ramirez and Brendan Klinkenberg.

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Jonah E. Bromwich covers criminal justice in New York, with a focus on the Manhattan district attorney’s office and state criminal courts in Manhattan. More about Jonah E. Bromwich

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