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Tour Players Iron Lie Angles

By kirkj01 June 30, 2007 in WRX Club Techs

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Created 16 yr
Last Reply 7 yr

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kirkj01 3 posts

kells 2 posts

Milo 2 posts

Truok 2 posts

Jun 30 2007

HarboursideTC

I find that my swing plane changes with the length of the club. Using 62*/5 iron as standard, I play my long irons standard, my mid irons 1* flat and my 9,PW, GW and SW 2* flat. This change really helped me straighten out my short irons, which I tended to pull left.

I have read alot about changing lie angles. For me this works best because I tend to hit my longer irons harder with a more upright and FULL swing. When I back off on the shorter irons, my swing path shortens and my plane gets a little flatter. This isn't unusual. Look at Tiger. He has a more upright two-plane wing with his driver and a flatter one-plane swing with his irons.

NotEvenJail26

I played X100s off a 38.5" 5 Iron, all were about 2-3Â° up and the toes were absolutely disappearing into the dirt. Had know idea about his until I got on a LM that takes photos of impact. Way too much droop in the shaft. I now play satin PX 6.0 at a flatter lie angle with much better results.

Theoretically, that should work by having the toe catch the turf first but that's not the way to hit reliable fades and I would not trust it. And even if it was repeatable, which is doubtful, sometimes I like to hit shots other than left to right with my short irons.

If the ball is still anywhere near the impact area when the club is hitting the ground, you have bigger problems in your swing than the lie angle.

Lie angles do not affect ball trajectory because either the heel or the toe is catching the ground. They affect ball trajectory because if you take a lofted face and rotated it upright or flat, the face is now pointing left or right. The effect is larger with more loft.

thanks guys i find this interesting information.

i grew up playing regular shafted irons and used to hit the ball a lot straighter - or rather did not hit the short irons left so much. but my swing was certainly different. very loose and used to hit it way too high.

as i have got older and stronger i have changed to stiffer shafts (currently use proj x flighted 7.0's) and certainly strike the ball much better than i used to... trying very much to keep my head a lot stiller and concentrating on solid contact. just get annoyed when i throw away shots by missing greens to the left. i think one of the answers can be in adjusting the lie angle of the shorter irons.

Remember just because someone is 6'5 doesnt mean they need upright clubs, its the length of a persons arms in comparison to their height which makes most of the difference.

i have heard that adam scott has a really nutty setup as far as lie angles go, but it seems there are a lot of people that are like that. i am going to check my lie angles and whatnot on tuesday and i think my long irons may need some adjusting, but the other irons are in good shape. my wedges DEFINITELY need some adjustments. i hit a draw with almost every club in the bag but my wedges. they look very upright at adress and i tend to pull my wedges BAD... sometime 25 yards offline!!! and that really stinks when you're 100 yards away to not even hit the green. i'm 6'2" and i play 1 flat on my irons and my putter is bent flat as well. i know a ton of golfers and a bunch that are shorter than me need upright lies. i just can't bring myself THAT close to the ball... different strokes...

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6 foot 3 but half inch over and 4 flat. Oneplane swing for life. I took my time and hit every club on the board after each bend. Some may vary a half a degree but for the most part 4 flat. I used to just stick with two flat due to concerns going so flat. After doing the last adjustments the ball is flying straighter than ever. There is really no cookie cutter formula. Takes some trial and error or a solid fitting sesion.

but i am guessing that once you get it right it makes all the difference in the world?? golf must be a very diificult game for many beginners:)

kells i am also guessig you chose the hibore xl tour because it sits a little open as well - how do you like it?

Love it. LOOOOOOOOOW spin head just like I wanted. I am switching to Adams Staff for All clubs starting in August. I have my tour rep on the hunt for the Tour 4250 DF. The XL Tour is sweet though. I feel it is a very low spin head. I got the head from the tour rep at the FBR this year. Cleveland has been good to me but Adams is the best treatment I have recieved as a professional. Excited about the switch. You can't go wrong with the XL if you have spin issues.

V Jay is not 6'5". I bet he's closer to 6'1". I am 6'3" and was standing next to him at the US Open and was definitely taller than him. Also, even though I am 6'3", I play my irons 2 degrees flat. It's all a matter of your swing and how far away you stand from the ball. V Jay likes to play fades, so maybe that's why he plays his irons a little flatter.

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This is getting pretty funny talking about how tall all of these tour players are, If I didn't know any better I would think that you are talking about basketball players. Nobody mentioned here is six five, more like six three. I think that you can get stats on players on pgatour.com

Viking Golfer

Yeahhh - Vijay is 6' 2", and he has long arms. Long arms means the need for flatter lie in your irons, especially if you try to play a fade shot.

VJ is 2 deg flat from Standard Cleveland Specs.

VJ puposely plays 2* flat to help him hit a fade much like his open face angles on the driver.

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9 years later...

I don't think lie angle is as important as people think. I've played everything from 7 degrees flat to 4 degrees upright with success with all setups. You definitely have to make adjustments for the clubs when they are that extreme but it's do able. With flat clubs I had to bend the knees more and bend over at the waist more. With more upright I had less knee flex and bend. I hit the center with both extremes. I find my most comfortable position is with a club about 2 degrees upright but I wouldn't say my shots were any worse or better than with standard lies. Just made my address position more comfortable. If you think you are hooking badly because your club is 2 degrees too upright id think it's a swing issue not a club issue.

10 year old thread lol

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Interesting see all of those low member numbers. Sean2 is the only one I recognize from the thread.

Gotta love when someone renews a decade-old thread like this. : )

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I was researching this yesterday... how timely. I go blue dot 5 - pw and black dot wedges.

Also Webber and few other low numerical members. It's nice not getting yelled at for bringing back an old thread like on "that" forum.

I'll bet there's few more classic old threads that I've forgotten about.

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Many tour players play their wedges flatter than standard. It helps when they hit flop shots, because to play that shot you generally lower your hands at address.

Hi Everyone, I note there is a lot of discussion over lie angles of irons and everyone seems to have their own prefernces. I am interested in tinkering with my lie angles - especially the shorter irons as I feel I hit it left a bit much - I also have a strong grip but am uncomfortable weakening it. I am interested in knowing what the trends are with the tour players. Both out of curiosity and with a possibility of making some changes myself. I have not found much in regards to this. Does anyone know what lie angles Bubba Watson or Angel Cabrera typically go for? I remember reading that VJ favour 2 or 3 degrees flat. Personally I am quite tall but have always favoured hitting the ball away from myself a little. Certainly don't like having the ball too close to me. I would like to be able to play softer fades into a green rather than draws. Any thoughts, advice, comments are most welcome. cheers

Everyone is uncomfortable when changing their grip. Unfortunately, that is just part of golf when you are trying to get better and more consistent. It is going to be harder for you to hid fades if you have a strong grip.

EDIT: I did not realize this was a 10 year old thread haha.

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The Truth About Lie Angles

This Lesson Is For You If:

You want to hit more pure shots

You want a better understanding on how lie angle affects your swing

The Big Picture

What you are looking to accomplish when you swing the club is center face contact .

Additionally, you’d like the impact lie angle as close to 0* as possible, the face to path relationship as close to 0* as possible, and the swing direction as close to 0* as possible (or whatever intended ball flight you’re trying to accomplish).

This is the formula for optimal and consistent ball speed time after time.

Why Does Lie Angle Matter?

Why does lie angle matter to us? Because at impact, when the toe of the club is up, the planar angle of the face (face normal) will be closed to the target line. If the toe is digging, the face normal will present open to the target line.

Factors in Lie Angle

Lie angle at address or static play angles can be influenced by a great many things . The length of a player’s arms, how a player addresses the ball (posture), and the length of shaft are among the factors. However, this is not all that we need to know.

What Happens At Impact?

If a club sits perfectly at address, does that mean that it will come into impact the same way? Not necessarily. Is a club that marks the lie board perfectly the best fit for that player? Same answer.

What needs to be considered is what’s happening dynamically during the swing . Is the lie angle forcing the player into a compensation? Is the player forcing the lie angle into an undesirable position?

Here at The Studio we are fortunate to be equipped with GEARS motion capture which allows us to measure living, breathing profiles of how the shaft is deflecting, drooping and twisting throughout the entire swing. This allows us to understand the interactions between the player, shaft, and lie angle so that golfers can attain repeatable center-face contact.

Stop by The Studio and get fit for a set of the best clubs you will ever have from True Spec Golf or work on your game in one of the most sophisticated swing labs in existence.

10 Comments

Great information. Makes me wonder if I swing the swing I swing because of bad lie angle and my bodies need to make the ball go straight, or do I swing my swing and the lie angle is correct and I’m not compensating?

Christopher,

That’s a great question and something that you can tie your brain in knots with. The beauty of being on GEARS is that at least you’ll get all the data on the club and your swing/body so you can see how things change as you change lie angles.

Would you know if all golf companies produce the same lie angels in their clubs? And, what is the ideal person that most off the shelf clubs fit (height, length of arms, posture, etc)?

Most companies stay in a certain range, but they’re not all the same. We post the standard lie angles in all our iron reviews.

I don’t think there’s a “ideal person” for off the shelf fit because, as this article discusses, it’s not about the static measurements but the dynamic swing.

Monty, Each OEM has a different “standard”. I can tell you at TrueSpec Golf. We baseline everything off of TSG standard and adjust from there. There isn’t a specific “body type” ideal for off the rack/ stock equipment. The reason being that we’re not measuring from a static position (like a lot of other fitting companies do), we are taking into account the ballistic nature in which the individual golfer offends the shaft during the entire swing.

Matt, Why wouldn’t a lie board with the impact mark in the center of the sole not indicate an appropriate fit ? Ron

You can mark the center of the tape and be completely unable to hit the face or control the face angle. Those two things are much more important than how you mark sole tape.

If I extend an iron shaft by 1/2″ my lie angle should increase by approximately 1 degree. If this affects my ball striking, can’t I just grip down about 1/2″ on the club and get back to my original lie angle?

Yes, that should approximate the “original” build.

Another important factor affecting lie angle is the position of the shaft when it is gripped. A person who grips the shaft with the butt on the pad of the hand (incorrect grip) will result in an upright adjustment. While if the same person grips the shaft at the base of the fingers (correct position) may not need any adjustment to the standard lie angle. I’ve seen this many times where a golfer is fitted with an upright adjustment to their irons due to incorrect grip. When I have them change to a proper grip the lie angle has to be changed.

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A Complete Guide: What Is the Lie Angle in Golf?

Last Updated on November 2, 2023

Golfers are always looking for ways to improve their game, and the lie angle in golf is one of those factors that can have a huge impact. But what exactly is the lie angle? How do you measure it, adjust it, and where should you go to get your clubs adjusted if needed? In this blog post, we’ll answer all these questions about the lie angle in golf so that you can take your game to another level. We’ll discuss why adjusting the lie angle is important, common mistakes when doing so, and how best to get started. So grab your clubs, and let’s start talking about improving our games with adjustments on the lie angle in golf.

When a golfer sets up to take a shot, they want their feet, hips, shoulders and arms all aligned correctly so that they can deliver maximum power through impact with the ball. If any part of this alignment is off by even just one degree, then there could be serious consequences for their game. This is where adjusting your lie angle comes into play – if you have too much loft on your club face, then you may need to adjust your lie angle down; if you don’t have enough loft, then you may need to adjust it up.

The first step in measuring lie angle is to place a flat surface on the ground, such as a piece of plywood or a level concrete floor. Place the head of the club on this surface to be parallel to it. This will give you an accurate reference point for measuring lie angle.

To ensure maximum consistency with each shot taken, the goal should be to achieve perfect perpendicularity between the shaft and ground plane. This eliminates any sidespin caused by the incorrect alignment between the clubface and ball at impact due to misaligned shafts relative to their intended target line direction. To do this, use a protractor or other device to measure angles to determine how far off from perpendicular (90 degrees) the shaft lies relative to the ground when viewed from above. If it’s more than one degree off, then you need to adjust your lie angle accordingly.

When adjusting lie angles, make sure not to overdo it. Too much adjustment can cause problems like excessive heel-side dispersion during ball flight or, even worse – hooking/drawing instead of straightening out slices. It’s a best practice only adjust 1-2 degrees at most per session until desired results are achieved over time through trial & error experimentation using data collected from launch monitors or other tracking devices if available.

When the lie angle is adjusted correctly, it helps to ensure that your clubs are making contact with the ground at exactly the right spot. This allows for more consistent shots and better control over trajectory, spin rate, and launch conditions. Additionally, adjusting lie angles also reduces stress on joints like elbows and wrists by ensuring that they remain in their natural positions throughout a swing.

The benefits don’t stop there, though. Properly adjusted lie angles can also help improve consistency from one club to another and reduce fatigue during play due to improved posture while swinging. Furthermore, when combined with other customisations such as loft adjustment or shaft length alteration , it becomes even easier to achieve optimal performance out on the course.

It’s important not to overlook common mistakes when adjusting lie angles, too – incorrect measurements can lead to poor results no matter how much effort has been put into customisation otherwise. Make sure you measure twice before making any adjustments so that everything is set up perfectly for maximum benefit from every single shot taken out on the course.

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Inside Patrick Cantlay’s surprising switch into new irons

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For the first time this decade, Patrick Cantlay has switched irons.

Cantlay is the type of player to stick with he knows when it comes to his gear, but recently, ahead of the Masters, Cantlay finally upgraded from his Titleist 718 AP2 irons, which were first released to the public back in 2017, into a fine-tuned set of PING Blueprint S irons, released in January 2024.

Starting with his victory at the Memorial Tournament presented by Workday 2019, Cantlay logged seven total PGA TOUR wins with his previous irons in his bag. At the end of 2023, however, with fresh backup sets dwindling and a growing desire to upgrade, Cantlay began testing other irons.

Patrick Cantlay upgraded from his Titleist 718 AP2 irons into a set of PING Blueprint S irons. (Courtesy GolfWRX)

According to PING Tour rep Spencer Rothluebber, PING first began sending Cantlay sets to test around December 2023.

At first, PING sent Cantlay a number of different iron sets with various lie angles and lengths, and then at The American Express 2024, they were able to measure the specifications of his old 718 AP2 irons in order to match up the specs in a new set of Blueprint S irons.

During the testing process, and even at the 2024 RBC Heritage following the Masters, PING and Cantlay worked on dialing in the particulars, including bounce, grinds, lie angles and lofts, to make sure no stone was left unturned.

“He’s very particular visually,” Rothluebber told GolfWRX.com on Tuesday at the 2024 Zurich Classic of New Orleans. “We worked a lot on lie angles, and making sure the lofts on his irons were right. But it’s also everything from top rail to leading edge. The numbers have to be there [spin and distance] for him, but it has to look right, too.”

Additionally, although Cantlay is still sticking with his longtime Titleist 915F 3-wood and TS2 21-degree fairway wood, he’s also upgraded into a new Titleist TSR2 9-degree driver in 2024.

Typically, throughout his career, Cantlay hasn’t been the type of player to make many upgrades, but it appears that 2024 is the year of change for the eight-time PGA TOUR winner.

Cantlay will tee it up this week at the Zurich Classic team event alongside partner Xander Schauffele; the Cantlay-Schauffele duo won the 2022 Zurich Classic, and they finished T4 last year.

Opinion & Analysis

The most overlooked reason you miss wedge shots.

“Get fit!”

It’s something we hear about all the time in the golf equipment world. Fitting helps optimize your gear, which leads to lower scores. With a driver, that also means maximizing distance and accuracy, and for irons and wedges, it’s about precision and dispersion. The issue is when most golfers are selecting wedges the main focus is often on loft gapping and bounce selection, which leaves golfers forgetting about one key factor: lie angle.

What is lie angle?

Golf club lie angle is defined as, “ The measured angle between the axis of the shaft relative to the ground when the middle of the sole and grooves are parallel to the ground.” For you visual learners like myself, see the diagram below.

Why is lie angle so important?

Lie angle plays a crucial role in club performance, specifically related to the direction a golf shot will travel after impact. It plays its the largest role in launch direction and spin axis, which, when properly controlled, leads to tighter dispersion and straighter shots. Let me explain further…

Making sure lie angle is properly calibrated through the set for any individual golfer makes it easier for the said golfer to hit shots online towards the intended target, even down to the shortest shots around the green. Ping’s Karsten Solheim was the first to introduce lie angle fittings to golfers and simplified its explanation by combining lie angle with length to end up at a color code. It is a reference that has become synonymous with fitting and Ping clubs.

The Original Ping Fitting Chart

Why wedges lie angles are the most important

The reason lie angle plays a crucial factor in wedge fitting is that as loft increases, so does the effect lie angle has on launch direction. Since wedges are the highest-lofted, highest-spinning clubs in your bag, as spin axis goes up so does the ability for the shot to end up away from the intended target.

There is one last part to this whole puzzle and it has to do with the speed at which wedges swung. At slower speeds, shafts deflect less, meaning as you go through the bag, greater shaft deflection occurs with the most happening with the driver. With the least amount of deflection, or droop, occurring with wedges, they need to be played flatter compared to your irons to make sure the face is pointed towards the target at impact—and just as importantly, to be sure the sole interacts properly with the ground.

The video below further explains the importance of wedge lie angle both around the green and on full shots.

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Ryan Barath is a club-fitter & master club builder with more than 17 years of experience working with golfers of all skill levels, including PGA Tour players. He is the former Build Shop Manager & Social Media Coordinator for Modern Golf. He now works independently from his home shop and is a member of advisory panels to a select number of golf equipment manufacturers. You can find Ryan on Twitter and Instagram where he's always willing to chat golf, and share his passion for club building, course architecture and wedge grinding.

Sep 16, 2020 at 7:05 am

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Osnola Kinnard

Jul 25, 2020 at 11:07 am

Gonna have to disagree. I do believe in properly fit equipment. That being said, the most overlooked reason is, we simply aren’t that good. We are not only not that good, we don’t practice the way we should. Yes, properly fit equipment is key, but the truth is, you kind of just suck, and often we make poor decisions that got us to the point of needing some hero shot with a wedge and we are now attempting a shot we barely know how to do, and wonder why it turned out poorly.

gwelfgulfer

Jul 25, 2020 at 5:27 pm

I was basically going to say the same thing. It’s far more about lack of ability than a fitted wedge.

Jul 28, 2020 at 2:18 pm

I think Ryans point is that no one will be as good as they can be unless the lie angles are correct for the golfer. The inaccuracy is magnified as loft is highest is simply a fact, many golfers arent aware of.

Jul 25, 2020 at 1:34 am

Ben Hogan in Power Golf and Sam Snead in Natural Golf both said that they soled their clubs completely flat on the ground, Hogan going into more detail that if the lie angle was not soled on the middle of the face at address the whole swing will be off. Not impact, address. For some reason club manufacturers are making their clubs upright as heck to combat the average golfer uncocking their wrists prematurely, not because of shaft droop. With modern lie angles now, if you had to address it like Hogan recommended, you’d have to set up like Moe Norman to even get it to sole at the middle.

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Vincenzi’s 2024 Zurich Classic of New Orleans betting preview

Vincenzi’s 2024 LIV Adelaide betting preview: Cam Smith ready for big week down under

The PGA TOUR heads to New Orleans to play the 2023 Zurich Classic of New Orleans. In a welcome change from the usual stroke play, the Zurich Classic is a team event. On Thursday and Saturday, the teams play best ball, and on Friday and Sunday the teams play alternate shot.

TPC Louisiana is a par 72 that measures 7,425 yards. The course features some short par 4s and plenty of water and bunkers, which makes for a lot of exciting risk/reward scenarios for competitors. Pete Dye designed the course in 2004 specifically for the Zurich Classic, although the event didn’t make its debut until 2007 because of Hurricane Katrina.

Coming off of the Masters and a signature event in consecutive weeks, the field this week is a step down, and understandably so. Many of the world’s top players will be using this time to rest after a busy stretch.

However, there are some interesting teams this season with some stars making surprise appearances in the team event. Some notable teams include Patrick Cantlay and Xander Schauffele , Rory McIlroy and Shane Lowry, Collin Morikawa and Kurt Kitayama, Will Zalatoris and Sahith Theegala as well as a few Canadian teams, Nick Taylor and Adam Hadwin and Taylor Pendrith and Corey Conners.

Past Winners at TPC Louisiana

2023: Riley/Hardy (-30)
2022: Cantlay/Schauffele (-29)
2021: Leishman/Smith (-20)
2019: Palmer/Rahm (-26)
2018: Horschel/Piercy (-22)
2017: Blixt/Smith (-27)

2024 Zurich Classic of New Orleans Picks

Tom hoge/maverick mcnealy +2500 ( draftkings ).

Tom Hoge is coming off of a solid T18 finish at the RBC Heritage and finished T13 at last year’s Zurich Classic alongside Harris English.

This season, Hoge is having one of his best years on Tour in terms of Strokes Gained: Approach. In his last 24 rounds, the only player to top him on the category is Scottie Scheffler. Hoge has been solid on Pete Dye designs, ranking 28th in the field over his past 36 rounds.

McNealy is also having a solid season. He’s finished T6 at the Waste Management Phoenix Open and T9 at the PLAYERS Championship. He recently started working with world renowned swing coach, Butch Harmon, and its seemingly paid dividends in 2024.

Keith Mitchell/Joel Dahmen +4000 ( DraftKings )

Keith Mitchell is having a fantastic season, finishing in the top-20 of five of his past seven starts on Tour. Most recently, Mitchell finished T14 at the Valero Texas Open and gained a whopping 6.0 strokes off the tee. He finished 6th at last year’s Zurich Classic.

Joel Dahmen is having a resurgent year and has been dialed in with his irons. He also has a T11 finish at the PLAYERS Championship at TPC Sawgrass which is another Pete Dye track. With Mitchell’s length and Dahmen’s ability to put it close with his short irons, the Mitchell/Dahmen combination will be dangerous this week.

Taylor Moore/Matt NeSmith +6500 ( DraftKings )

Taylor Moore has quickly developed into one of the more consistent players on Tour. He’s finished in the top-20 in three of his past four starts, including a very impressive showing at The Masters, finishing T20. He’s also finished T4 at this event in consecutive seasons alongside Matt NeSmith.

NeSmith isn’t having a great 2024, but has seemed to elevate his game in this format. He finished T26 at Pete Dye’s TPC Sawgrass, which gives the 30-year-old something to build off of. NeSmith is also a great putter on Bermudagrass, which could help elevate Moore’s ball striking prowess.

After having four of the top twelve players on the leaderboard at The Masters, LIV Golf is set for their fifth event of the season: LIV Adelaide.

For both LIV fans and golf fans in Australia, LIV Adelaide is one of the most anticipated events of the year. With 35,000 people expected to attend each day of the tournament, the Grange Golf Club will be crawling with fans who are passionate about the sport of golf. The 12th hole, better known as “the watering hole”, is sure to have the rowdiest of the fans cheering after a long day of drinking some Leishman Lager.

The Grange Golf Club is a par-72 that measures 6,946 yards. The course features minimal resistance, as golfers went extremely low last season. In 2023, Talor Gooch shot consecutive rounds of 62 on Thursday and Friday, giving himself a gigantic cushion heading into championship Sunday. Things got tight for a while, but in the end, the Oklahoma State product was able to hold off The Crushers’ Anirban Lahiri for a three-shot victory.

The Four Aces won the team competition with the Range Goats finishing second.

*All Images Courtesy of LIV Golf*

Past Winners at LIV Adelaide

2023: Talor Gooch (-19)

Stat Leaders Through LIV Miami

Green in regulation.

Richard Bland

Fairways Hit

Abraham Ancer
Graeme McDowell
Henrik Stenson

Driving Distance

Bryson DeChambeau
Joaquin Niemann
Dean Burmester
Cameron Smith
Louis Oosthuizen

2024 LIV Adelaide Picks

Cameron smith +1400 (draftkings).

When I pulled up the odds for LIV Adelaide, I was more than a little surprised to see multiple golfers listed ahead of Cameron Smith on the betting board. A few starts ago, Cam finished runner-up at LIV Hong Kong, which is a golf course that absolutely suits his eye. Augusta National in another course that Smith could roll out of bed and finish in the top-ten at, and he did so two weeks ago at The Masters, finishing T6.

At Augusta, he gained strokes on the field on approach, off the tee (slightly), and of course, around the green and putting. Smith able to get in the mix at a major championship despite coming into the week feeling under the weather tells me that his game is once again rounding into form.

The Grange Golf Club is another course that undoubtedly suits the Australian. Smith is obviously incredibly comfortable playing in front of the Aussie faithful and has won three Australian PGA Championship’s. The course is very short and will allow Smith to play conservative off the tee, mitigating his most glaring weakness. With birdies available all over the golf course, there’s a chance the event turns into a putting contest, and there’s no one on the planet I’d rather have in one of those than Cam Smith.

Louis Oosthuizen +2200 (DraftKings)

Louis Oosthuizen has simply been one of the best players on LIV in the 2024 seas0n. The South African has finished in the top-10 on the LIV leaderboard in three of his five starts, with his best coming in Jeddah, where he finished T2. Perhaps more impressively, Oosthuizen finished T7 at LIV Miami, which took place at Doral’s “Blue Monster”, an absolutely massive golf course. Given that Louis is on the shorter side in terms of distance off the tee, his ability to play well in Miami shows how dialed he is with the irons this season.

In addition to the LIV finishes, Oosthuizen won back-to-back starts on the DP World Tour in December at the Alfred Dunhill Championship and the Mauritus Open. He also finished runner-up at the end of February in the International Series Oman. The 41-year-old has been one of the most consistent performers of 2024, regardless of tour.

For the season, Louis ranks 4th on LIV in birdies made, T9 in fairways hit and first in putting. He ranks 32nd in driving distance, but that won’t be an issue at this short course. Last season, he finished T11 at the event, but was in decent position going into the final round but fell back after shooting 70 while the rest of the field went low. This season, Oosthuizen comes into the event in peak form, and the course should be a perfect fit for his smooth swing and hot putter this week.

The Wedge Guy: What really makes a wedge work? Part 1

Of all the clubs in our bags, wedges are almost always the simplest in construction and, therefore, the easiest to analyze what might make one work differently from another if you know what to look for.

Wedges are a lot less mysterious than drivers, of course, as the major brands are working with a lot of “pixie dust” inside these modern marvels. That’s carrying over more to irons now, with so many new models featuring internal multi-material technologies, and almost all of them having a “badge” or insert in the back to allow more complex graphics while hiding the actual distribution of mass.

But when it comes to wedges, most on the market today are still single pieces of molded steel, either cast or forged into that shape. So, if you look closely at where the mass is distributed, it’s pretty clear how that wedge is going to perform.

To start, because of their wider soles, the majority of the mass of almost any wedge is along the bottom third of the clubhead. So, the best wedge shots are always those hit between the 2nd and 5th grooves so that more mass is directly behind that impact. Elite tour professionals practice incessantly to learn to do that consistently, wearing out a spot about the size of a penny right there. If impact moves higher than that, the face is dramatically thinner, so smash factor is compromised significantly, which reduces the overall distance the ball will fly.

Every one of us, tour players included, knows that maddening shot that we feel a bit high on the face and it doesn’t go anywhere, it’s not your fault.

If your wedges show a wear pattern the size of a silver dollar, and centered above the 3rd or 4th groove, you are not getting anywhere near the same performance from shot to shot. Robot testing proves impact even two to three grooves higher in the face can cause distance loss of up to 35 to 55 feet with modern ‘tour design’ wedges.

In addition, as impact moves above the center of mass, the golf club principle of gear effect causes the ball to fly higher with less spin. Think of modern drivers for a minute. The “holy grail” of driving is high launch and low spin, and the driver engineers are pulling out all stops to get the mass as low in the clubhead as possible to optimize this combination.

Where is all the mass in your wedges? Low. So, disregarding the higher lofts, wedges “want” to launch the ball high with low spin – exactly the opposite of what good wedge play requires penetrating ball flight with high spin.

While almost all major brand wedges have begun putting a tiny bit more thickness in the top portion of the clubhead, conventional and modern ‘tour design’ wedges perform pretty much like they always have. Elite players learn to hit those crisp, spinny penetrating wedge shots by spending lots of practice time learning to consistently make contact low in the face.

So, what about grooves and face texture?

Grooves on any club can only do so much, and no one has any material advantage here. The USGA tightly defines what we manufacturers can do with grooves and face texture, and modern manufacturing techniques allow all of us to push those limits ever closer. And we all do. End of story.

Then there’s the topic of bounce and grinds, the most complex and confusing part of the wedge formula. Many top brands offer a complex array of sole configurations, all of them admittedly specialized to a particular kind of lie or turf conditions, and/or a particular divot pattern.

But if you don’t play the same turf all the time, and make the same size divot on every swing, how would you ever figure this out?

The only way is to take any wedge you are considering and play it a few rounds, hitting all the shots you face and observing the results. There’s simply no other way.

So, hopefully this will inspire a lively conversation in our comments section, and I’ll chime in to answer any questions you might have.

And next week, I’ll dive into the rest of the wedge formula. Yes, shafts, grips and specifications are essential, too.

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Sam Burns’ what’s in the bag accurate as of the RBC Heritage. Driver: Callaway Paradym Triple Diamond S (9 degrees...

Will Zalatoris’ what’s in the bag accurate as of the RBC Heritage. Driver: Titleist TSR2 (9 degrees, A1 SureFit setting)...

Scottie Scheffler’s winning WITB: 2024 RBC Heritage

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Driver: TaylorMade Qi10 Max (10.5 degrees) Buy here. Shaft: Mitsubishi Diamana GT 60 S 3-wood: TaylorMade Stealth 2 (15 degrees)...

Brandel Chamblee has ‘no doubt’ who started the McIlroy/LIV rumor and why

Golf Club Lie Angle Chart: What It Is & How To Use It

The golf club lie angle is the angle between the club shaft and the clubhead soled flat on the ground. But let’s be more specific.

What is a golf club lie angle? Lie angle is the measurement between the center of the shaft and the ground when the sole of the clubhead rests flat on the ground. The standard lie angle for irons is between 59 and 64 degrees. Lie angle varies by a golfer’s height, swing, and preference. Having the right lie angle helps you hit more accurate shots.

But there is more to discuss regarding a club’s lie angle than that simple definition provides. My goal in the following article is to share everything you need to know regarding the lie angle of a golf club.

I will cover the following:

What Is a Golf Club Lie Angle?
The Importance of Golf Club Lie Angle

A Standard Golf Club Lie Angle Chart

How to use a lie angle chart based on height.

Lie Angle Charts According To Specific Golf Clubs Manufacturers and Brands

So let’s get into it and give you the long and short of everything lie angle-related in golf!

What Is A Golf Club Lie Angle?

Lie angle influences your shots start line, lie angle influences your shots shape, lie angle influences your interaction with the ground at impact, srixon zx7 mk ii irons.

Taylormade P790 Irons

Callaway Paradym Irons

Ping g430 irons, srixon zx5 mk ii irons, what lie angle do i need, how do i know what lie angle i need, do shorter golfers need a flatter lie angle, what lie angle do most pros use, what is lie angle for tall golfers, final thoughts.

Lie angle is the measurement between the center of the shaft and the ground when the clubhead’s sole rests flat on the ground. Simple, right? Well, it’s actually a bit more complex.

Standard lie angles for irons tend to range between 59 and 64 degrees.

Your right lie angle will depend on your height and the length of your arms. Your swing tendencies and ball flight will also play a part in determining what lie angle suits you.

Additionally, the standard lie angle varies from manufacturer to manufacturer, as you will see later in this article.

This may sound complex, but getting the right lie angle can definitely help you make more accurate shots, so it’s worth figuring out what works best for you.

Pro tip to measure your lie angle: To ensure your club is soled squarely on the ground look at the groves on the clubface. If they are parallel to the ground, your club is soled correctly.

Check this out: Best Golf Club Loft and Lie Machines & Buyers Guide

The Importance of Having The Correct Golf Club Lie Angle

There are many reasons why having a correct golf club lie angle for each of your clubs really matters. In all honesty, having clubs that fit you properly , with a correct lie angle, could make a massive difference in your game and ball striking.

If your club is too upright, as a right-handed golfer, your start line will run left of your target. If your lie angle is too flat, your start line will be right of your target.

In addition to influencing your shot start line, lie angle influences your shot shape. The start line is one thing, but a more upright lie angle typically allows a shot to turn over and work right to left for a right-handed golfer. And, if you are following along, a more flat lie angle will typically allow you to work the ball more left to right.

As we continue, other things will likely come to mind regarding the impact lie angle may have on your game. An example of additional influences is how your clubface may interact with the grass at impact. Suppose the lie angle is too flat; the result may be your toe catching the turf at impact. Or if the lie angle is too upright, your heel may catch the ground first at impact. I’m sure all of this information is starting to make a lot of sense to you now.

Read on: What Are The Degree Lofts Of Golf Clubs?

Factors, such as a golfer’s height, play into determining the ideal lie angle for each individual.

Basically, the taller you are the lower your lie angle will be. Shorter golfers will have higher lie angles.

Again, the above are only fundamental ideas of what standards are for each club. These should not be considered the end all be all. Countless other aspects, such as height and wrist-to-floor measurement, which we will look at soon, factor in significantly.

More from Golf Span: How To Measure Driver Shaft Length (Images + Video)

Lie Angle Charts According To Specific Golf Clubs Manufacturers And Brands

As mentioned, not all golf club manufacturers have the same baseline lie angles. There are slight differences occasionally. I chose five popular sets of irons and plugged their lie-angle specs in the charts below to show you a few cases.

Taylormade P790 Irons

Great article from Golf Span: What Driver Loft Should You Use? (Full Chart Based On Swing Speed)

The process is straightforward in determining what lie angle is best for you based on your height and wrist-to-floor measurement. There are only about three steps to find the best setup for you.

Measure your wrist to floor measurement as seen in the video below.

With your measurements in hand, all you need to do next is take that number and your height and refer to the chart below.

So, for example, if you are 5′ 10″ and have a wrist-to-floor measurement of 32″, then the suggested lie angle for you would be 1 degree flat.

The last step is essential.

I recommend that you test different lie angles that are a half to even a full degree flatter or more upright than your recommendation via the chart. Use TrackMan, FlightScope, or another radar to test and compare data. In most cases, your wrist-to-floor measurement and height should give you a good recommendation. However, golfers have unique and individual nuances to their swings, which may only sometimes fit nicely into a chart.

Your specific lie angles depend on your height and wrist-to-floor measurement. Additionally, you should test clubs with very slight differences from the manufacturer's recommendations for your height and wrist-to-ground measurements and see how a flatter or more upright lie angle works for you.

You can know your lie angle based on some factors. * Height: Taller golfers typically need a more upright lie angle, while shorter golfers typically need a flatter lie angle. * Swing: If you have a more upright swing, you will need a more upright lie angle. You will need a flatter lie angle if you have a more bent-over swing. * Ball position: If you play the ball closer to your front foot, you will need a flatter lie angle. Playing the ball closer to your back foot will require a more upright lie angle. * Clubhead design: Some clubhead designs are designed for a specific lie angle. If you are unsure of what lie angle your clubs are designed for, you can consult the manufacturer's specifications.

Yes, shorter golfers typically need a flatter lie angle than taller golfers. This is because shorter golfers tend to have a more bent-over swing, and a flatter lie angle will help to ensure that the clubface is square to the target at impact.

Most pros use a slightly upright lie angle, typically between 1 and 3 degrees. However, their height and wrist-to-floor measurements generally determine their lie angle recommendations.

Tall golfers typically need a more upright lie angle than shorter golfers. This is because taller golfers tend to have a more upright swing, and a more upright lie angle will help to ensure that the clubface is square to the target at impact. If you are a tall golfer and unsure what lie angle is right for you, it is always best to consult with a golf club fitter. They can help you determine the correct lie angle for your height, swing, and other factors.

Understanding the lie angle on a golf club and how it can influence the outcome of shots you hit is essential to playing better golf. Additionally, understanding how to measure and find your ideal lie angle specifications is critical. The golf club lie angle chart I have proved and additional information should provide you with beneficial insight.

Not all manufacturers align with a standard lie angle for each club in the bag. While they may be very close to one another, a half or full degree of lie angle can make a difference in the shots you hit, so that is something to be aware of as well.

Brendon Elliott

Brendon is Class A PGA Professional and founded Little Linksters, LLC, and its nonprofit arm, the Little Linksters Association for Junior Golf Development. He won 25+ prestigious industry honors, including the 2017 PGA National Youth Player Development Award. He graduated from the PGA of America Management Program and has a handicap index of 7.8.

He has played golf for over 40 years and currently plays twice a month at the Eagle Dunes Golf Club near Sorrento, Florida. He loves Srixon clubs and plays a ZX5 driver with Z 585 irons. He's written over 60 articles on GolfSpan and specializes in sharing tips to improve your golf game. You can connect with Brendon at LinkedIn , X , IG , FB , his website , or [email protected] .

Best score : 69
Favorite driver : Srixon ZX5
Favorite ball : Srixon Z Star
Favorite food at the turn : Turkey and cheese on white
Brendon Elliott https://www.golfspan.com/author/brendon-elliott Masters Ticket Prices in 2024: What I Pay as a PGA Pro
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One of the best ways to get better at your golf game is finding the perfect club that fits your unique swing. Adjusting your club’s lie and loft angles improves the way you play — and our certified repair technicians are here to help make that happen.

Stop by your local PGA TOUR Superstore to check the lie angles and lofts of your clubs right before your golf season starts, so you can be confident that you have the consistent distance and control you need.

Depending on the type of work you need done, our adjustment costs can vary. We recommend contacting or visiting your local PGA TOUR Superstore to talk with one our Associates for accurate pricing.

What is the loft?

The loft in a club is the angle between the clubface and the ground. It determines how high and far the ball will go.

What is the lie?

The lie is the angle between the shaft and the ground when the club is in its proper address position. The correct lie angle makes sure the clubhead is flat on the ground on impact.
What do adjustments do? - Adjusting the loft changes the trajectory and distance. Increasing the loft means the ball will go higher and potentially shorter, while decreasing the loft means a lower and longer ball flight.
How it's done - Loft adjustments can be made by bending the hosel using a machine specifically made for loft and lie adjustments.
What do adjustments do? - If the toe of the club is too high when you hit the ball, the ball could veer to the left for right-handed golfers and vice versa for left-handed golfers. Adjusting the lie can correct this misalignment.
How it's done - Just like the loft, the lie is adjusted by bending the hosel. Our certified club fitters will first measure your swing and stance to make sure they make the proper lie angle for your club.

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Golf Club Lie Angle Chart (Based on Height)

Jake was a competitive golfer for over a decade dating back to the days of being the Captain of his high school golf team. He has played more than 200 courses across 32 different states in the US. Now semi-retired, Jake continues to golf 3-4 days a week with a current 2 handicap, gives golf lessons to his friends and family, and provides a wealth of knowledge to Golf Circuit from his competitive playing days. Jake combines practical expertise with technical knowledge to create golfing strategies and training techniques for both beginners and scratch golfers.

Many amateur golfers are concerned about driver shaft length but lie angle is just as important. When you adjust the length of a golf club, the lie angle is also impacted.

To better understand which lie angle you need for your game and the way that lie angle can change the types of shots you hit, we have put together a golf club lie angle chart to help you understand.

What Is Golf Club Lie Angle?

Lie angle is the angle between the shaft and the ground.

To make this simpler to understand, I always like to think of it as where the toe of the club is pointing. If I stand over the golf ball and the toe is raised from the ground and pointing up, it’s an upright lie angle.

If I stand over the ball and it seems as though the heel is raised above the ground and the toe end of the club is almost digging, that’s a flatter lie angle.

The goal for all golfers is to have a lie angle that allows a golf club to sit flat on the ground when they are at the address. Every golf club in the bag has a lie angle, including the putter.

What Happens if Lie Angle Is Not Correct?

If the lie angle of your golf club needs to be corrected, you will notice issues with ball flight and consistency.

With lie angles too upright, the heel of the club will dig into the ground and tend to close the clubface. With a closed clubface, expect the shot to go left of the target.

When the lie angle is too flat, the clubface can often open a bit at impact, causing a shot that ends up too far right of the target. The good news is that the lie angle can be quickly adjusted by bending the club with the proper equipment.

Is There A Standard Golf Club Lie Angle?

Finding the right lie angle on golf club laying on turf

Just as you will find standard golf club length and loft, the lie angle can be the same. As a golfer, it’s essential to understand what a standard lie angle is to ensure your adjustments to the angle are proper when you purchase your set.

Remember, there is nothing that states that a golf manufacturer needs to keep their lie angle standard or in line with what the standard is. In fact, the lie angle is greatly impacted by the lofting of these modern clubs, and that is where you see some major discrepancies and changes.

Lie Angle Chart Modern Game Improvement Set

This chart takes a look at the loft, lie and length of the TaylorMade Stealth irons. The TaylorMade Stealth golf clubs are considered to be game improvement golf clubs, and they have lie angles that are in line with what the standard is for the most part.

You will notice that the lie angle on the longer irons in this set is a little higher. This happens with the lofts being so strong while forgiveness is also high.

Using something like this Ping color chart is also helpful when finding iron lie angle.

Lie Angle Chart Modern Blade Style Irons

A modern blade style iron like the Taylormade P7MB irons has lie angles that are a little lower than they are in the TaylorMade Stealth.

There is no perfect lie angle; instead, you have to find what works for the needs of your game.

Work with a professional fitter to determine the lie angle you need based on the club you are swinging.

Instead of bending the lie angle based on the standard, it’s best to look at the lie angle adjustments needed of the individual club you try.

Golf Club Fitting Chart/Lie Angle Based On Height

When you go for a golf club fitting , you are likely getting a dynamic golf fitting. However, in addition to a dynamic golf fitting, there are also static fitting measurements that some fitters will use.

These static fitting measurements will give you an idea of the lie angle you may need in your golf clubs based on your total height and your wrist-to-floor length .

A taller golfer with standard-length arms will likely need a standard lie angle. However, if a player’s arms are considerably shorter, they may need something more upright, and the opposite is true for players with shorter arms.

These static fitting measurements can help get an idea of the starting point, but a dynamic fitting that considers your angle of attack, your speeds, natural abilities at impact, and more, is a much better solution.

Remember, if you know that your standard golf lie angle adjustment is 1 degree flat, you must be aware of how different the clubs you are using are from the standard. This can impact the overall performance as well.

Frequently Asked Questions

Here are a few of the most commonly asked questions about lie angle and how it will impact you as a golfer.

What lie angle should my clubs be?

Lie angle is a measurement that you should choose based on your height and arm length. A golf club fitting professional can help you determine which lie angle is the best for you.

How do I know what lie angle I need?

Using a lie board, you can hit shots showing where the bottom of the club is striking the turf or the board. If you have a piece of golf club fitting tape on the bottom of the club, it will show you exactly what lie angle the club needs to be adjusted to.

Do shorter golfers need a flatter lie angle?

Shorter golfers typically need a flatter lie angle. However, if shorter golfers have short arms and do not need the club to be quite as short, they can switch to a standard or more upright angle and have just as much luck.

What lie angle do most pros use?

Golf pros will have individual lie angles that suit the needs of their golf game. With the way professional golfers get tour-level fitters to help them with their equipment each week, they never need to worry about having the proper lie angle.

Final Thoughts

Hopefully, you now have a better idea of what the golf club lie angle chart can do for you. You can use this as a way to establish a baseline for the golf clubs that you need.

Golf club lie angle is one of the most important fitting parameters in the game; keep that in mind the next time you are looking for new golf clubs.

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Grace Kim shoots 7-under 64 at Wilshire Country Club to lead LPGA Tour's JM Eagle LA Championship

Jeongeun lee5 aces 18th hole on thursday at jm eagle la championship presented by plastpro.

LA Championship
Tournament News

LOS ANGLES (AP) — Grace Kim shot a 7-under 64 at Wilshire Country Club to take the first-round lead Thursday in the LPGA Tour's JM Eagle LA Championship.

Playing in the morning session, the 23-year-old Australian capped her bogey-free round with a chip-in birdie on the par-3 18th.

"Well, I chunked my tee shot on the last hole 20 meters short and then I chipped it in it," Kim said. "I think that's pretty cool, in front of everyone."

Maja Stark of Sweden, Sei Young Kim of South Korea and Chanettee Wannasaen of Thailand were a stroke back at 65. Stark finished second last week outside Houston in The Chevron Championship, two strokes behind top-ranked Nelly Korda.

"I was so tired when I got here," Stark said. "I barely been practicing. Just did a little bit of what I needed to do. I feel like it's kind of similar anyway because there are just some pins that you can't go for just like at Chevron."

Korda withdrew Monday, a day after her fifth victory in a row.

Grace Kim won the LOTTE Championship last year in a playoff in Hawaii for her first LPGA Tour title. She missed the cut in The Chevron, shooting 76-72.

"If I was to compare my round today to last week, I really focused on just not having too much in my mind," she said. "I think I over-thought a lot of things through my first and second round last week and struggled a little bit mentally."

Sei Young Kim had four straight birdies on Nos. 12-15 in her afternoon round. She won the last of her 12 LPGA Tour titles in 2020.

Auston Kim, Haeran Ryu and Nataliya Guseva shot 66, and defending champion Hannah Green matched Amy Yang and Bianca Pagdanganan at 67.

Hannah Green Starts Solid in Her Title Defense

Maja Stark in the Mix After First Round 65 at JM Eagle LA Championship

PGA Tour Players React to Nelly Kordas Success

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Masters: TV ratings decline sharply despite Scottie Scheffler’s historic victory

The numbers are in from the 2024 Masters Tournament , and they should worry everyone associated with the sport.

CBS Sports drew 9.589 viewers for the final round at Augusta National , a 20% decrease from when Jon Rahm triumphed a season ago, according to Josh Carpenter of Sports Business Journal .

Scottie Scheffler’s historic win this year had the lowest ratings of any Masters since 2021, when Hideki Matsuyama’s first major victory drew 9.450 million.

But these numbers are nothing new to professional golf in 2024.

“If you look at the TV ratings of the PGA Tour this year, they’re down 20 percent across the board. That’s a fifth. That’s big... 20 percent’s a pretty jarring number.” McIlroy said ahead of the Valero Texas Open .

“I would say the numbers on LIV aren’t great either in terms of the people tuning in. I just think with the fighting and everything that’s gone on over the past couple of years, people are just getting really fatigued from it. It’s turning people off men’s professional golf, and that’s not a good thing for anyone.”

The numbers do not lie.

The PGA Tour-LIV Golf divide has turned many fans away while creating plenty of infighting among players, fans, and pundits alike. LIV has taken many of the tour’s top talent away, most notably Jon Rahm , the defending Masters champion, who jettisoned to the Saudi-backed circuit for more than $400 million in December.

But this past week, unlike any other event so far in 2024, LIV golfers played alongside PGA Tour stars. Thirteen players from LIV Golf teed it up, with Bryson DeChambeau , Cameron Smith, and Tyrrell Hatton contending. Phil Mickelson, Brooks Koepka , and Rahm also created some excitement, but it did not translate to widespread interest.

Instead, people tuned away from The Masters, which typically draws the largest audience of any golf tournament each year.

Nonetheless, McIlroy, who has called for a unification between the PGA Tour and LIV Golf, predicted this possibility ahead of his solo third-place finish at TPC San Antonio.

“If the numbers aren’t as good, it’s an argument to say we need to put everyone back together because people are losing interest in the game even if they don’t want to tune in to the four major championships,” McIlroy hypothesized on Apr. 3.

“Things need a correction, and things are unsustainable because I’m close with NBC and the people who really care about these things and the people who tune in to watch golf.”

Only one tournament on the PGA Tour this year has seen a year-to-year increase in ratings. That would be The American Express , which saw Nick Dunlap become the first amateur to win on tour since Mickelson did so in 1991.

It took a historic occurrence for the tour to see gains, a massive problem.

Even Scheffler’s unprecedented title defense at TPC Sawgrass did not produce a ratings increase in March, something that should concern PGA Tour brass. Scheffler’s masterful 8-under 64 on Sunday led him to finish one stroke ahead of Wyndham Clark and Brian Harman, in what many called the best tournament of the year.

Yet, that drew only 3.5 million viewers, down from 4.1 million a season ago.

The numbers do not lie, and they are screaming to everyone that professional golf is in dire straits.

Jack Milko is a golf staff writer for SB Nation’s Playing Through. Be sure to check out @_PlayingThrough for more golf coverage. You can follow him on Twitter @jack_milko as well.

Scottie Scheffler poses with Fred Ridley, the chairman of Augusta National Golf Club at the 2024 Masters.

Tiger Woods, Rory McIlroy learn how much loyalty is worth in new PGA Tour equity program

Players are receiving a portion of a nearly $1 billion equity share for staying loyal to the pga tour amid lucrative recruitment by liv golf., by doug ferguson | associated press • published april 24, 2024.

Players who stayed loyal to the PGA Tour amid lucrative recruitment by Saudi-funded LIV Golf are starting to find out how much that loyalty could be worth.

The PGA Tour on Wednesday began contacting the 193 players eligible for the $930 million from a “Player Equity Program” under the new PGA Tour Enterprises .

The bulk of that money — $750 million — went to 36 players based on their career performance, the last five years and how they fared in a recent program that measured their star power.

How much they received was not immediately known. Emails were going out Wednesday afternoon and Thursday informing players of what they would get. One person who saw a list of how the equity shares were doled out said the names had been redacted. The person spoke to The Associated Press on condition of anonymity because many details of the program were not made public.

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The Telegraph reported Tiger Woods was to receive $100 million in equity and Rory McIlroy could get $50 million , without saying how it came up with those numbers.

Commissioner Jay Monahan outlined the first-of-its-kind equity ownership program in a Feb. 7 memo to players, a week after Strategic Sports Group became a minority investor in the new commercial PGA Tour Enterprises.

Alligator interrupts PGA Tour event with stroll across tee box

Scottie Scheffler extends dominant run with RBC Heritage win

The private equity group, a consortium of professional sports owners led by the Fenway Sports Group, made an initial investment of $1.5 billion that could be worth $3 billion. The tour is still negotiating with the Public Investment Fund of Saudi Arabia — the financial muscle behind the rival LIV Golf league — as an investor.

Any deal with PIF would most certainly increase the value of the equity shares.

Another person with knowledge of the Player Equity Program, speaking on condition of anonymity because of the private nature of the dealings, said the equity money is not part of the SSG investment. That money was geared toward growth capital.

Golf.com received a series of informational videos on the Player Equity Program that was sent to players and reported only 50% of the equity would vest after four years, 25% more after six years and the rest of it after eight years.

It also reported how the 36 players from the top tier were judged on “career points,” such as how long they were full members, victories, how often they reached the Tour Championship and extra points for significant victories.

Jason Gore, the tour's chief player officer, said in one of the videos, “It's really about making sure that our players know the PGA Tour is the best place to compete and showing them how much the Tour appreciates them being loyal.”

Emails also were sent to 64 players who would share $75 million in aggregate equity based on the past three years, and $30 million to 57 players who are PGA Tour members. Also, $75 million in equity shares was set aside for 36 past players instrumental in building the tour.

The program has an additional $600 million in equity grants that are recurring for future PGA Tour players. Those would be awarded in amounts of $100 million annually started in 2025.

Players only get equity shares from one of the four tiers now, although everyone would be eligible for the recurring grants.

Even with equity ownership geared toward making the PGA Tour better, the concern was players questioning who got how much and whether they received their fair share.

LIV Golf lured away seven major champions dating to 2018 since it launched in 2022, all with guaranteed contracts and most of them believed to have topped $100 million.

McIlroy, playing this week in the Zurich Classic of New Orleans, was asked how much would make players feel validated for their decision to stay with the PGA Tour.

“I think the one thing we’ve learned in golf over the last two years is there’s never enough,” McIlroy replied.

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McIlroy and Lowry team to share lead at PGA Zurich Classic

Rory McIlroy and Shane Lowry held a share of the lead on 11-under-par after the first round of the PGA Tour's Zurich Classic of New Orleans team event on Thursday.

A birdie on the 18th hole saw the pair, who both represented Ireland at the Tokyo Olympics three years ago, join three other pairings at the top of the leaderboard.

The tournament features fourball formats in the first and third rounds with alternate shot for the second and final rounds.

Also on 11-under were American pair Ben Kohles and Patton Kizzire, England 's Aaron Rai and American David Lipsky and Americans Ryan Brehm and Mark Hubbard.

With a field lacking many of the tour's biggest names, world number one Scottie Scheffler is among the top players missing, the two major winners and Ryder Cup Europe players added some much needed star power on the opening day.

McIlroy said that seeing some low scores from the early pairs had put a little pressure on him and Lowry.

"You know that you sort of need to get off to a good start, and thankfully we did. We were 4-under through four, which was really nice to see, and from there you've got some momentum and you're just trying to keep it going," said the world number two.

"But for the most part today, we kept both balls in play. We were having two looks basically on every hole at birdie, and that's the way you need to play better ball. Everyone thinks it's maybe a bit more gung ho than that, but as long as you have two balls in play off the tee, two balls on the green, I think you're always going to do pretty well in this format," he added.

McIlroy is making his debut in the tournament and said he is relishing the chance to make a push for a win with a team-mate he knows well.

"I don't know if I knew what to expect. I've watched this tournament a little bit over the years on TV, heard some good things from some of the players. It's nice to come here, team up with a really good friend, and if we play a good round tomorrow, it'll be awesome to be in contention for the weekend and try to get a win on the PGA TOUR with a friend beside me. Looking forward to it," he said.

- Nice vibe -

Lowry, the 2019 British Open champion, said he felt a benefit to his game playing alongside McIlroy.

"I definitely felt today I was less hard on myself than I've been in the last few weeks when I hit a couple of bad shots. It's nice to know you've got Rory McIlroy backing you up.

"There's a nice vibe out there with the two of us," he added.

There was an unusual delay to play on the 17th hole at TPC Louisiana when an alligator strolled across the tee.

The groups of Bronson Burgoon and Jhonattan Vegas, along with Paul Barjon and Samuel Stevens, had to wait until the reptile had finished his journey before they could tee off the par-3 hole.

A trio of teams were a shot behind the leading quartet after shooting 10-under rounds of 62.

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Eric Cole made an ace on the 207-yard par-3 14th, playing in a pairing with Russ Cochran. The 65-year-old Cochran was making his 600th PGA Tour appearance after Cole invited him to get off the 599 mark he had been sat on since his last tour event in 2013.

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As golf’s civil war rages, all the top PGA Tour and LIV players are at the Masters this week

Jon Rahm, of Spain, walks to the 10th green during a practice round in preparation for the Masters golf tournament at Augusta National Golf Club Tuesday, April 9, 2024, in Augusta, Ga. (AP Photo/Matt Slocum)

Brooks Koepka hands over his club on the second hole during a practice round in preparation for the Masters golf tournament at Augusta National Golf Club Tuesday, April 9, 2024, in Augusta, Ga. (AP Photo/Ashley Landis)

Bryson DeChambeau hands his driver to his caddie on the eighth hole during a practice round in preparation for the Masters golf tournament at Augusta National Golf Club Tuesday, April 9, 2024, in Augusta, Ga. (AP Photo/Ashley Landis)

Jon Rahm, of Spain, reacts on the 12th hole during a practice round in preparation for the Masters golf tournament at Augusta National Golf Club Tuesday, April 9, 2024, in Augusta, Ga. (AP Photo/Matt Slocum)

Jon Rahm, of Spain, hits on the 12th hole during a practice round in preparation for the Masters golf tournament at Augusta National Golf Club Tuesday, April 9, 2024, in Augusta, Ga. (AP Photo/Matt Slocum)

Jon Rahm, of Spain, and Nicolai Hojgaard, of Denmark, walk onto the 12th green during a practice round in preparation for the Masters golf tournament at Augusta National Golf Club Tuesday, April 9, 2024, in Augusta, Ga. (AP Photo/Matt Slocum)

Brooks Koepka, from left, Xander Schauffele and Patrick Cantlay hits on the second hole during a practice round in preparation for the Masters golf tournament at Augusta National Golf Club Tuesday, April 9, 2024, in Augusta, Ga. (AP Photo/Ashley Landis)

Bryson DeChambeau tees off on the eighth hole during a practice round in preparation for the Masters golf tournament at Augusta National Golf Club Tuesday, April 9, 2024, in Augusta, Ga. (AP Photo/Ashley Landis)

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AUGUSTA, Ga. (AP) — In some ways, golf finds itself at a point in time not unlike pro football in the 1960s, when two rival leagues duked it out but found a path to reconciliation that produced a game far bigger than anyone could’ve envisioned.

Bryson DeChambeau, for one, is hopeful that the still-smoldering split between the established PGA Tour and upstart LIV Golf could lead to a Super Bowl-like extravaganza that brings everyone together.

“You can look at it like the NFL and you could have NFC-AFC sort of working in their own fields and at the end they come together, put on a huge event at the end of the year,” said DeChambeau, who plays on the LIV circuit. “That could be really cool.”

If nothing else, major championships such as the Masters , which begins Thursday at Augusta National, provide a brief detente in this civil war of the links.

All the top players — from reigning Master champion Jon Rahm and Brooks Koepka representing Team LIV to world No. 1 Scottie Scheffler and Rory McIlroy teeing it up for the old guard — will be looking to not only claim a green jacket, but score bragging rights for their de facto team.

Grace Kim hits from the 16th tee during the first round of the LPGA LA Championship golf tournament at Wilshire Country Club, Thursday, April 25, 2024, in Los Angeles. (AP Photo/Ryan Sun)

“Obviously, the more togetherness that you get, the better it is for everyone. There’s no doubt about that,” said Sergio Garcia, the 2017 Masters winner who bolted for LIV. “But there’s room for everyone. I don’t think that’s a problem at all.”

Even though LIV appears to have strengthened its hand with its stunning signing of Rahm , who was on the PGA Tour when he won at Augusta a year ago, there are actually five fewer players from the new tour than the 18 who played in 2023.

That’s largely because LIV events — with their smaller fields and 54-hole format — do not receive world ranking points, one of the main conduits for entry into the Masters.

Still, the Saudi-funded circuit has demonstrated that its top players can compete with the best of the PGA Tour.

Koepka and Phil Mickelson were runner-ups to Rahm a year ago at the Masters, and Koepka went on to capture his fifth career major title at the PGA Championship . Of the 27 major championships that have been staged since the beginning of 2017, 13 were won by golfers who now call LIV home.

Koepka took issue with those who say the split is ruining the game.

“Look, the best players in the world never got together week in, week out. I think that’s kind of forgotten,” Koepka said Tuesday. “It was the majors, (World Golf Championship tournaments) ... those were pretty much the 10 events where everyone was, for sure, going to be there. And then it was just kind of sprinkled in everywhere else. I think that’s kind of how it is” now.

But hard feelings remain, especially since a supposed merger agreement announced 10 months ago had yet to be finalized.

Just listen to Fred Couples, the 1992 Masters champion and outspoken critic of LIV.

“I don’t think I’ll ever understand it,” he said. “Now, everything can get better. But let me tell you, if the LIV tour is better for golf, I’m missing something there.”

Rahm acknowledged that when he accepted a reported $350 million offer to join LIV in December, he was hopeful that it would spur the two sides to reach some sort of reconciliation by the time the Masters rolled around.

Now, with a divide that seems as gaping as ever, he’s one of the most prominent faces on a tour that has been called everything from the future of the game — with its shotgun starts and team element — to a refuge of sellouts who are helping the Saudis sportswash the image of a repressive regime.

“It’s a bit of a detour on my path,” Rahm said. “But change can be better.”

Just how much things have changed was apparent from the attire he donned a year ago as he departed Augusta National to what he picked out for his practice rounds leading into this Masters.

Gone was the green jacket. Now he’s wearing a shirt emblazoned with a Legion XIII logo.

The team he now leads in LIV.

AP golf: https://apnews.com/hub/golf

COMMENTS

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