tfl incomplete journey apple pay

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Apple Pay - how do details get onto your TfL account

• Thread starter swt_passenger
• Start date 25 Nov 2015
• 25 Nov 2015

swt_passenger

Veteran member.

"Once you have added your card account details, you will be able to see your Apple Pay devices as separate 'card records' in your TfL account. You will also see your card if it has been used to travel on our services Initially, your plastic card and iPhone [...] will look like identical cards on their 'my cards' screen" from here: https://tfl.gov.uk/fares-and-payments/contactless/other-methods-of-contactless-payment/apple-pay Click to expand...

RailUK Forums

Bletchleyite.

They get there via Apple and your bank, one presumes.  

Neil Williams said: They get there via Apple and your bank, one presumes. Click to expand...

Established Member

swt_passenger said: That's the only logical explanation, and may be what TfL were on about when they originally mentioned 'altering their systems' to deal with Apple Pay. People thought there should be nothing significant to do because it was just another CPC. On the face of it if the DAN was to be completely anonymous for every transaction (as implied by Apple's description of normal retail procedures 'at the till') then TfL would not be able to run a single account for you, with all Oyster, contactless, and Apple Pay available behind a single log-in. Of course this implies that there must be additional links between Apple, TfL, and the bank that are somewhat different than for normal retail transactions - and the biggest obvious difference is the ability to store up transactions and process them overnight for capping purposes. Click to expand...

MikeWh said: Storing up transactions and processing overnight is simply the transit model for contactless payments (as distinct from the retail model). I never managed to link my Barclaycard paytag to my TfL account because there is no 3-digit security code assigned to the paytag, only a DAN. I wonder if this is the issue they had to solve when dealing with Apple Pay? Click to expand...

One small piece of information I can add to this is that Apple's announcement of the UK introduction of their payment service was made at their big developer's conference earlier this year, and included a mention of TfL (accompanied by a slide showing a photo of a NBfL, naturally). This would strongly suggest that Apple did work with TfL to make sure Apple Pay would be supported properly.  

• 26 Nov 2015

WelshBluebird

It seems to me that if this is the case, then some tweaks to the system could make Apple Pay much much more useful when used with TfL! At the moment, because of the use of a DAN instead of the card number, if you say enter using Apple Pay but exit using your card the entry and exit won't be matched up (because the system will see them as different cards). But if they do link the Apple Pay transaction directly to your contactless card in some way, then shouldn't it be possible to link up an exitusing using the card to an entry using Apple Pay?  

StateOfPlay

What website are you looking at? When I check My Account at Tfl, I can see any journey/trips made using my contactless card, but not Apple Pay.  

Forum Staff

StateOfPlay said: What website are you looking at? When I check My Account at Tfl, I can see any journey/trips made using my contactless card, but not Apple Pay. Click to expand...

Pocket-lint

How to use apple pay on the london underground.

We've got all the key details you need on how to use Apple Pay on the London Underground, including tips and tricks.

Key Takeaways

• Using Apple Pay on the London Underground is different than using it at other stores, but it's now much quicker with Express Mode.
• Enable Express Mode on your iPhone or use your Apple Watch to quickly tap and go through the turnstiles.
• Wear your Apple Watch on your right arm for an even quicker gate experience, and remember to always use the same device when tapping in and out.

Apple Pay has been around in the UK for ages now. You might have noticed that the average queue at your local Pret or pub features iPhone and Apple Watch owners thrusting their devices at store staff and payment machines. What you might not realise, however, is that using Apple Pay with a London Underground terminal is actually quite different - once a faff, it's now much, much quicker.

Fumbling and fiddling with a device might be acceptable in a sandwich shop, but you need to be nimble to avoid other commuters getting angry at you using your Apple tech to get through the gate. Thankfully, there's an Express Mode to make it easy to pay for your travel via your Watch or your iPhone.

Using Apple Pay on public transport in London is actually extremely easy - and it's important to know that it'll also work the exact same way on buses and the Overground network, too!

London's public transport revolves around a contactless system now, with entry points all featuring big yellow readers - this is the key to using Apple Pay.

On the Tube, you tap both in and out of your journey, while on a bus you only tap as you get on.

That means all you have to do is get your Apple Pay reader to go through the reader as you start your journey or end it on the Underground, and use the same card both times.

As you'll see below, though, there are some amazing ways to speed this up, with the biggest being Express Mode.

Apple Pay on the London Underground: Tips and tricks

If you're all set with the above steps and have Apple Pay ready to go on the Tube, you might want to check out our list of extra tips below, which could help you speed things up a good chunk.

1. Enable Express Travel Card Apple Pay on your iPhone

This trick is vital for whizzing through the turnstile quickly. Rather than wait until the turnstile prompts you to give Touch ID or Face ID authentication, you can enable Express Mode on a certain card in your Apple Wallet to work automatically without having to require authentication. Just tap and go.

Open Settings on your iPhone > Tap on Wallet & Apple Pay > Tap on Express Travel Card > Select the card you want to use as your Express Travel Card. If you've got an iPhone XS or later it will even work for 5 hours after the battery has run out.

2. Use your Apple Watch

If you have an Apple Watch you'll find it much quicker and easier to go through the turnstiles. If you've set up Express Mode, or Express Transit Mode as it's also known, simply place the watch face down on the yellow circle and you're through.

If you've got an Apple Watch Series 4 or later, it will work even when the battery has run out. Handy if you're out late.

3. Wear your Watch on your right arm

For an even quicker through-the-gate experience, wear your Apple Watch on your right wrist as almost all Tube system gate readers are on that side.

If your Watch is on your left arm, you could always do the tap and spin like we do. That way you end up facing the gates backwards as you spin through them as if you were a pro dancer.

4. Check your progress

Once you've tapped through with either your iPhone or your Watch, check your journey "tap in" status by going to the card you've used and viewing your logged journey data.

As Apple Pay logs the transaction as you go, it will let you see your journey history right then and there. Oyster card members only get to see that if they go to the TfL website and sign in. What a faff.

Open Settings on your iPhone > Tap on Wallet & Apple Pay > Tap on the card you are using for tapping in and out at the top > Select the Transactions tab.

5. Save money with a weekly travel card

It's not available to Oyster card users, but contactless and Apple Pay users can benefit from weekly travel card fares if they "tap in" across the week. TfL automatically works out the best cost according to your usage, and then charges you the best rate possible.

6. Always use the same device in and out

Because of the way Apple Pay works, if you tap into the system with your iPhone you have to tap out with the iPhone as well, otherwise you'll be charged the maximum fare.

If you change payment methods (like using your Watch on the way out), even if it's the same card via Apple Pay, it thinks you are a different user and will charge you accordingly.

7. They will let you out if your battery is dead

TfL isn't evil and that means that if your battery dies mid-journey you will be let out of the gates at the other end. Expect to have to grovel though.

You might have to prove it to the guard too. Of course, if you've got an iPhone XS or later, and or an Apple Watch Series 4 or later, then you'll be fine for around 5 hours after the phone dies.

8. Tourists can use it too but with caveats

Visitors from the US to London are able to use Apple Pay on the Underground and buses too, but TfL can't 100 per cent guarantee that it will work the first time.

Make sure you tell your bank you are travelling first so they don't decline the card when you tap in for the first time.

9. Change the card you use

If you've got multiple cards loaded into Apple Pay, simply swipe between them before you pay to make sure you've got the right one. Just remember to use the same one at the other end too.

10. Use it on buses and trams too

Apple Pay works on all of the Transport for London (TfL) network including the London Overground, DLR, River, TfL-Rail, Buses, Trams, and of course the Underground.

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TfL mobile app now displays journey history and payments on the go

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Posted: 21 June 2018 | Intelligent Transport | No comments yet

Customers using contactless payment cards across London can now conveniently view their journey history and check or top-up payments on the go…

Customers using contactless payment cards in London can now view their journey history on the go following the latest update to the free Transport for London (TfL) Oyster and contactless app .

Half of all Tube and rail pay-as-you-go journeys in London are made using contactless payment cards or mobile devices. More than 17 million pay-as-you-go journeys a week are made across public transport services; providing value for money, flexibility and convenience.

The success of contactless payment in London is leading more cities to introduce the technology as a convenient method of paying for travel.

Shashi Verma, Chief Technology Officer at Transport for London, said: “We’re delighted that so many Londoners have already downloaded our app, making it easier to check journey history and top-up on the go. This latest update follows feedback from customers and is part of our work to make travelling in London simple and convenient for everyone.”

TfL has updated the free app – available to download from the Google Play Store and Apple App Store – to enable customers to view their journey and payment history and see if they have any ‘incomplete’ journeys. Customers can use their smartphone to quickly add pay-as-you-go credit or season tickets to their Oyster card.

Since the app launched in September 2017, more than 800,000 downloads have been made.

Customers can add their contactless payment card to an online account, personalise cards or devices and hide features that are not required. New features on the app illustrate updated maps and design changes to improve the customer experience.

Chief Executive of London Chamber of Commerce and Industry, Colin Stanbridge, said: “We support any improvements to make London’s public transport network easier, cheaper and more attractive to use: in doing so, benefitting commuters, tourists and the economy as a whole. Using contactless cards to travel has made great strides in this area and this update to the app would appear to take these changes a stage further.”

TfL is now working to introduce further improvements to make all the functions of the app available to customers using concessionary cards such as Zip and Student photocards. Future changes are expected to make it easier in requesting refunds.

Related topics Passenger Experience , Ticketing & Payments

Related cities London , United Kingdom

Related organisations Transport for London (TfL)

Related people Colin Stanbridge , Shashi Verma

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James Temperton

Apple Pay causes confusion on London transport

Transport for London has warned people using Apple Pay on London's transport network to use the system properly or risk being overcharged for their journey.

People touching in with an Apple Watch and out with an iPhone linked to the same Apple Pay account are being charged a maximum fare. This issue, which TfL describes as "card clash" is a result of how Apple Pay works.

The service, which launched earlier this week , has caused some confusion among early adopters. Apple Pay "creates its own unique ID for each product", a TfL spokesperson told WIRED.co.uk. This is actually to enhance security: Apple devices do not retain your credit or debit card numbers, but record a unique, encrypted device account number, on a dedicated chip, every time you add a card to an Apple Watch, iPhone or iPad.

In this way, Apple ensures that anyone with unauthorised access to your device can't retrieve your actual bank account information.

However, that by definition means an iPhone and Apple Watch linked to the same bank account will have separate IDs, and count as two separate travellers on TfL services. People are advised to only use one device when travelling around London .

We asked TfL how its weekly caps would work on the system. Specifically, WIRED.co.uk asked if two Apple devices, each using the same Apple Pay account, would contribute to a single weekly cap on charges, or if two running totals would be kept. TfL explained that all charging and capping was done on "the basis of individual devices". "To benefit from daily and weekly capping customers need to use the same device. Data on which devices are paired with each other is not available to us," the spokesperson explained. "If two devices linked to the same account are used on the same day they will get billed twice."

If people try to trick the system by sharing Apple Pay devices with friends or relatives, TfL said its fraud prevention algorithms would pick up on unusual activity.

Apple Pay could also cause problems if the device used to touch in runs out of battery during a journey. This would prevent people from being able to touch out, resulting in the maximum fare being charged.

Early adopters have also complained about the speed of Apple Pay compared to Oyster or contactless. Difficulties using Touch ID to authenticate payments combined with the speed at which a payment is recognised have been causing problems for some.

This article was originally published by WIRED UK

TfL warns commuters to make sure their Apple Pay device has enough battery or face a penalty fare

iPhone and Apple Watch owners using Apple Pay on transport around London have been warned to keep their devices adequately charged or face a penalty fare.

9 things we learned from 24 hours with Apple Pay, from loose limits to preload pointers

If your device runs out of battery while travelling, you could be charged a maximum fare for not tapping out at the end of your journey.

Meanwhile, users risk a penalty fare if their device is out of battery and an inspector is unable to read it.

TfL has also told users with several Apple Pay devices to stick to one every time they travel to avoid incomplete journeys, and to benefit from daily and weekly capping.

"Please be aware that you might receive payment notifications on all your devices, regardless of which one was used for touching in or out," it explained.

Keeping a contactless payment card or Oyster card in your phone case is not advised either, as the card could be debited instead of the iPhone or Apple Watch.

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‘TfL, why am I paying four times the normal Tube fare?’

The consumer champion solves a spat with transport for london, a nightmare journey with avanti and a run-in between the young farmers’ club and hollywood bowl.

I am owed about £200 by Transport for London (TfL) because it has been overcharging me for journeys when I tapped in and out of the barrier with my Chase credit card. I have been trying to sort it with TfL. I had a phone conversation two weeks ago with the only really helpful person I have spoken to, and he admitted that it looks like I am owed this money. He said that there were, and I quote, “issues with Chase cards” on the underground and that the Tube “can also double charge if your card is linked to Apple Pay”.

I sent an email to TfL to explain the amounts owed to me up to the end of November that I knew of, attaching my bank statements and highlighting the charges in question (there could be more that I haven’t spotted). I have also been overcharged in December a couple of times.

I spoke with TfL again yesterday and it has escalated my case to its tech department because the journeys in question show on my bank statement but not my TfL account, where I have registered the card I use.

I think I am halfway to getting my refund, but I’m sure there are many more people out there being overcharged that don’t know about it or don’t think to look. I have spent at least eight hours so far trying to get my money back because of errors on TfL’s system and, quite frankly, I’m fed up.

Jill replies

You commute to work two or three times a week from Clapham Junction to Canary Wharf via Canada Water (all in London). You touch the card reader every time, so your commute should total £3.80 (£1.90 per journey for that route). But on checking your Chase bank account statements you noticed that since September you have been charged between £8 and £16.50. You calculated that you were overcharged by £21.45 in September, £80.20 in October and £18.15 in November. December’s payments were not yet showing but you were also charged £16.50 for unpaid fares which you have no knowledge of.

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By the time you contacted me in December, two of your friends had told you they had similar experiences with cards from other banks. So it’s not an issue for Chase cards alone.

I asked TfL to investigate your complaint. Your journey history was not visible on TfL’s website, so it suggested that you unregister your Chase card, then register it again.

On January 2 TfL told you it had detected overpayments totalling £102, which was less than you expected. I asked TfL to check again. A month later you were offered a refund of £155 plus £100 in compensation which you have accepted.

What you don’t accept is TfL’s explanation as to why this happened. It told me your problem was probably caused by you using multiple devices or cards to tap in and out of stations. To ensure that you are charged correctly, you need to use the same payment method at the beginning and end of your journey. If you tap in with a mobile phone but out with a smart watch or your actual bank card, for example, you will be charged as having an “incomplete journey” and incur the maximum charge for the travel zone in which you do the tapping.

You were adamant that this couldn’t have happened. Although you have Apple Pay on your iPhone, you said: “For clarity there was just one time where I did accidentally tap out with my phone because I was in a rush, but apart from that I never do it. I always use my physical card.” You do not have another device like an Apple Watch.

I asked TfL if it was possible that the station card readers were picking up Apple Pay from your mobile while you tapped in and out with your Chase card. The answer of “it could do, but it shouldn’t” didn’t reassure me.

The easiest way to avoid this problem is to use an Oyster card — the payment method sold by TfL. If you prefer the ease of using your mobile, smart watch or bank card to pay, then registering your payment method with TfL will make it easier and quicker to correct overpayments. Customers can register for an online account at contactless.tfl.gov.uk . Customers using a Chase card and wishing to register will need to log into their Chase app, locate a “TfL — Transport for London” transaction record, scroll to the bottom and click on “adding your card to TfL” to get the unique card details to allow TfL to share journey history and complete refunds.

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Still at school, but left cold and afraid on the platform by Avanti

I am an 18-year-old student and have been visiting a lot of university open days recently in hope of starting a degree in September. I have been working part-time to afford travel costs, and decided to go by train so I didn’t have to ask my parents to take me. After an appalling journey to Edinburgh, I made a claim against Avanti West Coast but have received minimal compensation and had most of my claims denied.

I was travelling alone on the 6.24pm service from Milton Keynes to Edinburgh where I was due to be met by friends. I had never travelled far on my own before, but I felt safe doing this as I was going through busy stations and only needed to change once. Milton Keynes to Edinburgh Waverley, via Manchester, was meant to take five hours and 17 minutes and the ticket cost £19.45 with a 16-25 railcard.

The Milton Keynes to Manchester train was cancelled an hour before departure so I had to book another train that left at 6.19pm. This was the only train which could connect with the second leg of my journey. It cost £35.55, involved a change at Nuneaton and was meant to arrive in Manchester at 8.19pm, giving me three minutes to change to the 8.22pm train to Edinburgh.

This train arrived in Manchester Piccadilly 35 minutes late, by which time the Edinburgh train had left. An Avanti representative told me there were no more trains to Edinburgh that night and suggested that I should catch a train to Preston and ask an Avanti representative there what to do. I caught the next train to Preston, where I was advised to take yet another train to Glasgow, and contact the Glasgow staff in advance so that a taxi could be arranged to get me to Edinburgh. The train for Glasgow was delayed by an hour and did not arrive in Preston until 10.39pm.

After crossing the Scottish border this train was stuck at Lockerbie station until 2.10am because of a derailed freight train. I had been planning to eat out with my friends so had no food with me. Everyone on the train was told that we could use the onboard café but we weren’t told whether the food and drinks were complimentary, so I didn’t eat or drink anything.

The train was then sent back to Carlisle. En route, a staff member asked passengers whether they needed a taxi to their destination. Everyone got off at Carlisle with much confusion, and the train manager at Carlisle described his colleague’s taxi idea as “ridiculous”.

I returned to the train and waited there. Sleep was not possible as the situation might have changed, and I was made to get off the train at 6am. By now I was cold, afraid and hungry, waiting on the platform for the 6.51am train to Carstairs and then the 7.49am train from Carstairs to Edinburgh. I arrived, more than nine hours late, cold, hungry and tired, having taken six instead of the intended two trains to get to Edinburgh. This more or less trashed the whole of the next day.

I later learnt that my parents had endured a difficult night too, beside themselves with worry about my safety. What should have been an exciting weekend with friends, exploring the city where I hope to study, turned into a nightmare. I don’t know how much compensation could make up for this, but the £19.45 I’ve had does not seem adequate.

• Consumer rights UK: How to fight back

This seemed an astonishingly insignificant amount of compensation for what was truly a journey from hell. But it wasn’t even compensation — it was the refund of your £19.45 single fare to Edinburgh. I asked Avanti West Coast to reconsider.

It decided to refund the second ticket you had bought, costing £35.55, and said: “Following Avanti West Coast cancelling a service, passengers can use tickets valid for that particular service on the Avanti West Coast service either immediately before or after their scheduled train. It does not appear that you were made aware of this at the time, and I would like to sincerely apologise.” Again this seemed completely inadequate (nine hours late, six trains instead of two …) so I asked Avanti to think again.

This time it explained that your journey had been disrupted due to train crew shortage causing the cancellation of your original train, followed by a trespass incident in the Crewe area and then a broken-down freight train near Lockerbie — “both of which were out of our control”. It apologised to the 100 or so customers who were caught up in the disruption at Carlisle, and said that due to lack of taxis and hotel rooms they were offered shelter and warmth on board the train instead (according to booking.com there are at least 28 hotels within a mile of Carlisle city centre. Avanti staff stayed overnight at Carlisle station to provide assistance to customers where possible.

It told me that the cancelled trains on which you were trying to travel from Manchester to Glasgow were not Avanti West Coast services, but it has offered you a complimentary journey as a gesture of goodwill.

Hollywood Bowl strikes twice

On a Tuesday evening in January I booked and paid £217.80 for 33 tickets for Hollywood Bowl in Hull for my local Young Farmers’ club. I waited an hour for a confirmation email, but didn’t receive one. I checked online banking and the money hadn’t gone out and wasn’t pending, so I booked and paid again. The next day both payments went through. I still haven’t got a confirmation email.

I immediately rang Hollywood Bowl customer service which put one of the two bookings on hold. On Wednesday evening when we went in to bowl, I asked if they could repay the £217.80. Instead they gave me 33 vouchers with a use-by date of May 3, and told me that in the terms and conditions it states that the company doesn’t give refunds. It said: “When making a booking you would have agreed to our no refund policy before making payment. Bookings cannot be cancelled or refunded.”

This is a lot of vouchers to use in such a short amount of time. I could have used a few with my family, but 33 is overwhelming. I didn’t book twice deliberately.

I was pretty sure that while Hollywood Bowl won’t give refunds if a customer simply changes their mind about going bowling, it would refund in your case which was clearly a mistaken double booking — partly caused by you not being sent a confirmation for your first booking.

The next day Hollywood Bowl told me that it takes customer service very seriously and has refunded you in full.

Can we help you?

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Apple Pay on Transport for London - need full Device Account Number

I'm curious to know how Apple Pay will work on Transport for London. Following is the current situation:

• Anyone can use a contactless payment card (debit or credit card) on the yellow card readers at the beginning and end of each journey. TfL's system calculates the fares for multiple journeys and then charges the payment card at the end of the day. Fares are subject to daily and weekly caps, so it never costs more than buying a daily or weekly Travelcard . Passengers can optionally register their payment card number(s) on TfL's web site in order to see detailed journey histories. Seeing one's journey history is essential, particularly if touching in or out at the beginning or end of a journey fails, which is a frequent problem. If a touch-in or touch-out fails to register, then the passenger is heavily surcharged for an unresolved journey (because TfL assumes the worst case of a long journey) and the passenger then needs to claim a refund online.
• Apple Pay users (currently possible only with a US credit card on an iPhone with the region set to the United States) are already using Apple Pay on TfL according to the Daily Telegraph .

One thing we already know about Apple Pay is that it doesn't give the payment card number to the retailer. Therefore TfL won't see the passenger's payment card number for each Apple Pay transaction. Therefore how do Apple Pay users (including existing US-based users) register to see their detailed journey history on TfL's web site? I asked TfL who said I need to obtain my ePAN from my card issuer (PAN stands for Primary Account Number, industry term for a card number). TfL mentions the Device Account Number , which I understand is the ePAN.

Although I'm a UK-resident Brit, I happen to have a US-issued American Express card, which I've successfully added to my iPhone 6 for Apple Pay. It shows my Device Account Number, but only the last 5 digits are visible. I've no intention of using my USD-denominated Amex card for GBP-denominated transactions, so I'll wait until my UK-issued Amex cards are supported next month, but I nevertheless need to know how I will see my journey history on TfL's web site when I start using Apple Pay on TfL. I asked Amex US, who said that the Device Account Number (or ePAN) is a 15-digit number (same length as an Amex card number), but it would take a month for Amex US to obtain it from Apple. I asked Apple, who said that the Device Account Number is not stored on its servers. This contradicts Amex US, who said they would need to obtain it from Apple; I believe Apple over Amex in this case.

The lack of online journey histories, and the consequent inability to identify and correct unresolved journeys, will be a big problem for those using Apple Pay on TfL. If it is so difficult to obtain one's full Device Account Number or ePAN, this will be a significant impediment to using Apple Pay on TfL. Does anyone know how this is going to work?

iPhone 6, iOS 8.3

Posted on Jun 10, 2015 3:57 AM

Posted on Jun 10, 2015 4:32 AM

I suggest you wait until ApplePay is rolled out in the UK. According to the Keynote tfl support will be included in the rollout. I'm sure that your questions have been taken into account once the system is operational and we will know how it works.

I have used my US based CC in the UK in several UK retailers, but not all work. I was tempted to use ApplePay on the Underground last week but defaulted to the Oyster just in case. I was also wondering if it will be possible to "hold" CC from different countries in one Passbook/Wallet now that support will be extended to non-US countries. We will also have to wait on that one as well.

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Jun 10, 2015 4:32 AM in response to NFH.

Jun 10, 2015 4:38 AM in response to FelipeV

FelipeV wrote: I'm sure that your questions have been taken into account once the system is operational and we will know how it works.

The point is that Apple Pay is already operational on TfL, hence my questions. It is irrelevant that UK-issued cards can't yet be added to Apple Pay.

Jun 10, 2015 5:39 AM in response to NFH.

NFH. wrote: FelipeV wrote: I'm sure that your questions have been taken into account once the system is operational and we will know how it works.

Not officially as ApplePay has not been launched in the UK. Just because it works on tfl does not mean it is officially supported. As I said ApplePay works with some POS in the UK and not with others. Once it is launched and support is available and your questions will be answered.

Jul 14, 2015 10:17 AM in response to FelipeV

FelipeV wrote: Once it is launched and support is available and your questions will be answered.

No, it was launched today and my questions were not answered. According to TfL's Apple Pay guidance:

Please note that if you link an American Express card to your Apple Pay account, online support, including journey history is not yet available in your online TfL account.

We expect this will be resolved soon, you will then be able to view your journey history dating back to when you first started using Apple Pay. You will be able to claim refunds for any incomplete journeys. In the meantime, you can claim by calling TfL Customer Services on 0343 222 1234 ( TfL call charges )

If you want to claim a service delay refund for a journey you should call TfL Customer Services.

And this message appears on the iPhone after using Apple Pay on TfL with an American Express card:

So it appears that my prediction was correct. This is a mess, which American Express and TfL have yet to resolve.

Jul 17, 2015 7:28 AM in response to NFH.

Your question was answered on launch day as I said. The answer was not the one you wanted. The answer is that they are resolving the issue. You will have to wait.

Aug 2, 2015 12:12 PM in response to FelipeV

Any follow up answers? ie My husband and son leave for London this week, both have Apple Pay and American Express US issued cards. Will they pay a premium on tfl if they use Apple Pay? And to complicate things, my son is 15, and I have no clue how they'd get the cheaper ticket. Perhaps getting Oyster car as they leave LHR is the best option?

Aug 2, 2015 12:30 PM in response to cladamson

cladamson wrote: Any follow up answers? ie My husband and son leave for London this week, both have Apple Pay and American Express US issued cards. Will they pay a premium on tfl if they use Apple Pay? And to complicate things, my son is 15, and I have no clue how they'd get the cheaper ticket. Perhaps getting Oyster car as they leave LHR is the best option?

Nobody pays a premium to use Apple Pay on TfL. On the contrary, contactless payments are subject to daily and weekly caps, whereas Oyster is subject only to daily caps. However, you cannot get a child fare using contactless; you need a child Oystercard. See http://visitorshop.tfl.gov.uk/help/travelling-with-children/

If your Amex cards are charged too much, you need to phone TfL. I'm finding that, because TfL staff currently have no access to journey histories for Apple Pay with Amex, they give out refunds without any questions. It's open to abuse. The only problem is that TfL gives refunds only to a UK bank account. They can't seem to refund back to the original card (or it is very difficult for them). Go ahead and use Apple Pay with Amex on TfL, as the advantages outweigh the disadvantages.

Aug 2, 2015 2:12 PM in response to NFH.

Thanks NFH, Yu left me with more questions but hope in that apple pay is the way to go.

I registered my husband on the TfL site hoping he can monitor his fees a bit in case he fails to touch in or out as you mentioned this as an issue. I hope his apple pay does not fail to touch as you make me think as US residents, we will be hard pressed getting a refund? Also...my "premium" concern was derived from your comment that you would wait to use your UK-issued Amex instead of the US one. Ours are US-issued. My past experience is Amex charges in local currency (good), but your comment about using your US card made me think they'd Apple pay would end up doing US>GBP>US. Please clarify why you waited for your UK card?

Finally, sounds like you suggest having them buy the youth Oyster card (looks like they can do this at LHR near the tube station), but have my husband use apple pay? I looked up the caps (which I did not realize were posted for contactless cards) and since they don't for certain know how much walking vs train vs zone 1-2/zone 1-6 travel they will be doing, it will be cheapest no matter what. Thanks and sorry for the confusion!

Aug 2, 2015 2:24 PM in response to cladamson

cladamson wrote: I registered my husband on the TfL site hoping he can monitor his fees a bit in case he fails to touch in or out as you mentioned this as an issue. I hope his apple pay does not fail to touch as you make me think as US residents, we will be hard pressed getting a refund? Also...my "premium" concern was derived from your comment that you would wait to use your UK-issued Amex instead of the US one. Ours are US-issued. My past experience is Amex charges in local currency (good), but your comment about using your US card made me think they'd Apple pay would end up doing US>GBP>US. Please clarify why you waited for your UK card? Finally, sounds like you suggest having them buy the youth Oyster card (looks like they can do this at LHR near the tube station), but have my husband use apple pay? I looked up the caps (which I did not realize were posted for contactless cards) and since they don't for certain know how much walking vs train vs zone 1-2/zone 1-6 travel they will be doing, it will be cheapest no matter what. Thanks and sorry for the confusion!

I use USD-denominated cards for USD expenditure and I use GBP-denominated cards for GBP expenditure. As a UK resident, it makes no sense for me to fund GBP expenditure from USD funds. As a US resident, presumably without UK banking facilities, it makes sense for you to use a USD-denominated card for GBP expenditure. However, I make these comments before even considering any foreign transaction fee. Amex US charges 2.7% for non-USD transactions - not quite as bad as Amex UK which charges 2.99% for non-GBP transactions. These fees are waived for Amex Platinum US, but not for Amex Platinum UK. None of this is specific to Apple Pay; you will incur such fees for any expenditure when using a US-issued Amex card in the UK. Only a handful of UK card issuers charge no foreign transaction fee, and I believe that it's a similar story with US card issuers. It's too soon before your trip to obtain a card that doesn't charge such a fee.

If you read the link more closely, you'll see that it takes 4 weeks to get an Oystercard for an 11-15 year old. TfL suggests buying paper travelcards instead.

Aug 5, 2015 3:40 PM in response to NFH.

Did you manage to get to the bottom of this issue? I have just experienced this today with a helpful TfL assistant on the phone at the Oyster Helpline, but who was unable to help further. He suggested I just get my Device Account Number and add it to my Oyster account where I could see my recent journeys and then work out which was the incomplete one, and get them to process my refund - or even get the refund automatically processed on the Oyster website. However I can only get the last few digits of my Device Account Number and so can't go through this process. How is this possible?!?

Aug 6, 2015 12:18 AM in response to ScottCUK

ScottCUK wrote: Did you manage to get to the bottom of this issue? I have just experienced this today with a helpful TfL assistant on the phone at the Oyster Helpline, but who was unable to help further. He suggested I just get my Device Account Number and add it to my Oyster account where I could see my recent journeys and then work out which was the incomplete one, and get them to process my refund - or even get the refund automatically processed on the Oyster website. However I can only get the last few digits of my Device Account Number and so can't go through this process. How is this possible?!?

Yes, I did get to the bottom of it; see above. The TfL assistant misled you. Some TfL assistants are more familiar with this issue than others. If you encounter one who does not know what to do, refer them to https://tfl.gov.uk/applepay , which explains that journey histories for Amex cards via Apple Pay are not yet available. As I suggested above, TfL are refunding anything that anyone asks if they say they're using Amex with Apple Pay and give a plausible account of what happened. TfL currently have no way of verifying that you were charged at all, so this interim process is really open to abuse. They pay the refund to your bank account. Another route is that a supervisor at Amex UK who had been on the training briefing for Apple Pay told me that if cardmembers encounter any incorrect charges on TfL, then Amex will charge it back to TfL.

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TfL warns Apple Pay users of fines for flat batteries

Transport for London is warning Apple Pay users that they could end up paying over the odds for tube journeys if their iPhone batteries run flat.

When you use Apple Pay on the underground but your sweaty post-tube fingerprint doesn't scan. Then the meltdown. AND THE SHAME. #neveragain — Ryan (@goldblumr) July 15, 2015

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One major point to take care of is the time taken to pay using Apple Pay at tube entry gates. It is still slower than contactless/Oyster with added frustration of sweaty hands. I have been using the Apple Pay for past few days in and around London. My experience has been that though phone wakes up immediately near the POS terminal but the sweaty finger/thumb posed a challenge few times. Taking out physical wallet was a need but I believe as various companies refine their process and mode of acceptance, Apple Pay or any equivalent form of pay will become widely acceptable. Hey, even Oyster in the wake of contactless is facing gradual extinction.

If apple pay uses a token, - how can you use the same contactless card to check out if the battery of the  IPhone you checked in with goes flat or if you are unable to Fingerprint authenticate into your phone?   I dont think TFL are going to be able to connect apple pay (in) with contactless (out), but please correct me if you know the answer...   Applefanboys will persist where users of other first time failures would abandon.... Apart from #neveragain, obviously.  I wont be leaving my wallet at home for the forseeable future! 

Its no shame to use your ApplePay phone in the tube. I suggest using the wider family gates/slow lanes until someone figures out how to make the tube experience with ApplePay faster... at least there you wont risk being bundled over.

That confirms my thoughts on the matter. Surely you cant use the payment application in an Iphone6 or watch if you are unable to unlock the  device due to flat battery? that would negate the whole security layer

Flat battery is a relative concept with Apple Pay. TECHNICALLY they could have still allowed for NFC to be used with a DEFAULT card when the battery "dies", i.e. when the screen goes black (if you catch my drift...).

Matt, it's their attitude, unfortunately:  https://www.finextra.com/blogs/fullblog.aspx?blogid=11302

To provide better customer experince, tfl should support omni-channel digital capability, so that user can have seamless digital experince. They can start jourey to touch by iphone and complete the journey by touchout apple watch.

@Debasis - I believe the apple watch and the iphone have different tokenised card numbers for the same card (the token is per card per device so the same card on two devices has different tokenised numbers) so its not possible for TFL to decide to support the seamless experience - it would have to be a change to ApplePay to use the same token however I believe that is deliberate design (e.g. one token per device so that they can be revoked easily if the device is lost/stolen/broken)

@Ashish you can 'pre-auth' a card for applepay by opening passbook, clicking a card and putting your thumb on prior to touching the gate as Alexander has noted before - when its pre-authed the speed of applepay at a gate is similar to that of a normal contactless card

Personally for me the compelling use of ApplePay isnt 'leaving my wallet at home', its not having to get my wallet out then get the appropriate card out - applepay is quicker for me and only uses 1 hand vs 2 required for the wallet. Additionally the phone running out of battery isnt really a concern - if my phone was running low and wouldnt last the journey I would just use the card for the whole journey rather than the phone. I dont really see how its practical to think that people could leave their wallet at home at this point (store cards, transactions above £20 for stores without high value contactless, stores that dont support contactless etc). I'm guessing if people surveyed regular users of ApplePay how many people leave their wallet at home the answer would be very low (e.g. I dont think its the real compelling usecase)

@JamesBill + 1. On another note, I'm a little surprised not to find any mention of power bank. While it might not be as high tech as NFC / UICC / USIM etc., to me it seems like a straightforward and practical solution to this problem. In any case, even without Apple Pay, aren't most people compelled to carry around a power bank these days? To me, power bank is the AmEx card of today and "Never leave home without a power bank" is more compelling than "you can leave your wallet at home".

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How to use contactless payments on the London Underground

For those that live in Greater London, the contactless revolution has truly arrived, with TFL offering contactless payment since Tuesday, in addition to regular Oyster cards. Utilising Near Field Communication (NFC) technology, this system makes life quicker, easier and even cheaper for anyone using public transport in the capital.

Using contactless payments on TFL: how does it work?

The wireless readers used to touch in and out with Oyster cards work via NFC chips. These are the same chips that Apple recently incorporated into the iPhone 6 and iPhone 6 Plus , also found in certain credit and debit cards, and they enable wireless payment transference.

To learn more about NFC technology, read our article: What is NFC?

Transport For London has recently upgraded the system used by these readers to also incorporate the use of NFC chips in bank cards and phones, which allows you to tap in with your bank card or NFC-enabled device. That means you don’t having to regularly top up your Oyster card.

To use contactless payment, simply touch a compatible phone or bank card to the reader as you would with your Oyster card.

Using contactless payments on TFL: Which banks and cards can use it?

Many banks now offer contactless cards, which can be used to pay for small transactions without going through the hassle of entering your PIN; the system has already been adopted by many high-street brands, including Wetherspoons and McDonalds. Contactless cards are currently only issued by:

• Capital One
• Co-operative Bank Plc
• Barclays (Barclays Bank and Barclaycard)
• Lloyds Banking Group (Halifax)
• The Royal Bank of Scotland Group (NatWest and RBS)
• Nationwide (only to FlexPlus and FlexDirect upon request)

You can tell if your card supports contactless by looking for a symbol that looks like a Wi-Fi symbol turned sideways.

Barclays currently provides contactless wristbands that you can link to cards, allowing you to tap in and out with your wrist. It’s called a bPay Band and you can find out more at the bPay website

Using contactless payments on TFL: Can I use my mobile phone?

Contactless is supported by some mobile networks, although the only UK carriers currently offering NFC payment technology are Vodaphone and EE, through their SmartPass and Cash On Tap schemes respectively.

To use the system through your mobile network, you will need a smartphone with an NFC chip already built in. You can then use your network’s scheme to pay contactlessly on TFL, as well as anywhere else supporting NFC payment.

Using contactless payments on TFL: How much does it cost?

The fares for contactless payment are exactly the same as Oyster, with the added bonus that the system will automatically calculate the cheapest fare for you based on your journey patterns.

So if you do most of your travelling during the week in central London, it will charge you for a weekly travelcard rather than a series of single fares.

Using contactless payments on TFL: What is card clash and how can I avoid it?

Touching in with two cards at once, or using different cards to touch out at either end of your journey, will result in something called card clash.

This means that there is a risk of being charged the full fare two times, as the reader registers each card as one part of an incomplete journey.

The easiest way to avoid this is by making sure that you only touch one card for journeys by moving the card you use to pay for travel to a separate card wallet similar to Oyster card.

Using contactless payments on TFL: Where is it supported?

Contactless payment is supported everywhere that Oyster currently is, including buses and trams, and is used in exactly the same way.