why are star trek fans so weird

Why William Shatner's SNL Performance Outraged Star Trek Fans

William Shatner is not known for taking himself particularly seriously. Sure, he may have tearfully waxed philosophical after returning home from a first-of-its-kind tourist space flight in 2021, but in general, his public image is one of snark and self-deprecating humor. In his later career, in particular, the Canadian-born actor has leaned into "being William Shatner" as the source of his comic schtick, as KQED reports. Writer Gabe Meline described him as "the king of overacting for no apparent reason," who performs his staccato delivery — which appears to have developed as a caricature rather than organically — even when carrying on daily conversation.

Back in 1986, however, Shatner, with his tongue planted firmly in his cheek, committed a rather legendary act of Failure to Read the Room. Appearing on "Saturday Night Live," Shatner performed a sketch poking fun at the obsessive fandom accompanying the " Star Trek " franchise. While the sketch killed at Studio 8H, the "Star Trek" community was less than appreciative at one of its key subjects of fandom was poking fun at it. To this day, some people are still rather salty about it.

Shatner called "Star Trek" fandom "a colossal waste of time"

Back in 1986, Shatner appeared as a guest host on "Saturday Night Live." At the time, the original " Star Trek " TV series had been off the air for decades, but the franchise still lived on in movies, and Shatner was right in the thick of it, reprising his role as Captain James T. Kirk on the silver screen. And while these days obsessive fandom over popular culture franchises is a mainstream part of daily life, back in the 1980s it was a new and strange thing that wasn't as fully understood and accepted as it is now. It was in this context that the show's writers developed a sketch in which Shatner would portray himself, appearing at a "Star Trek" convention, to greet the fans.

The writers of the sketch "Get a Life!" appear to have started off on the wrong foot even before the actors and extras took the stage, as you can see by the sketch's name (per Screen Rant ). It got worse from there. Shatner then made fun of the fans, asking them if they'd ever kissed a girl and telling them that they'd turned "just a TV show" into a "colossal waste of time."

The sketch was well-received by the studio audience, and by the audience (as well as critics) at home. However, within the "Star Trek" community, the reaction was, and remains, decidedly mixed.

Gene Rodenberry's son certainly isn't feeling it

It is, of course, impossible to say who was the most upset by the "Get a Life!" sketch, but one contender may very well be Rod Roddenberry, the son of "Star Trek" creator Gene Roddenberry. As Screen Rant reports, he thought the sketch was "demeaning" to the fans. "I think it was disrespectful, especially for a character who was an open-minded, intelligent leader," he said.

As for "Star Trek" fans, it seems that most have come down on the side of the sketch being all in good fun, although there are a few holdouts who agreed with the junior Roddenberry's take. According to a companion Screen Rant report, after Roddenberry's comments came to light, the debate about the sketch moved to Twitter, where the consensus was that the sketch was hilarious, although a few sided with Roddenberry.

Shatner, for his part, did the most William Shatner thing possible with the whole controversy and turned it into the title of a book, releasing "Get a Life!," inspired by the sketch, in 1999, per The Ringer .

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How Star Trek fans helped change TV forever

The original series was nowhere near an instant hit; early Trekkies saved it from obscurity to jumpstart the beloved franchise we know today.

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“The television writer-producer faces an almost impossible task when he attempts to create and produce a quality TV series. Assuming he conceived of a program of such meaning and importance that it could ultimately change the face of America, he probably could not keep it there.” — Star Trek creator Gene Roddenberry

When Star Trek: Discovery made its long-awaited CBS All Access debut on Sunday, it entered on decidedly unsteady ground.

The outlook had hardly been sunny from the get-go: Though J.J. Abrams’s reboot films have seen overwhelming success under Viacom in recent years, Paramount Television and CBS Corporation’s last attempt at a TV series was a painful one. Star Trek: Enterprise held on for four seasons, but it brought the Trek universe’s Nielsen ratings, which had been falling steadily since the early ‘90s, to an all-time low . Since its cancellation in 2005, it has easily taken root at the bottom of even casual fans’ power rankings, below the original series, The Next Generation , Deep Space Nine , and Voyager (often outstripping even The Animated Series ).

Drama has plagued Discovery itself from the moment it was announced back in November 2015 . The caveat that it would only air on CBS’s new streaming platform, forcing audiences to pay for another subscription service, was the least of the show’s worries: As Discovery began production in early 2016, showrunner Bryan Fuller was onboard ; by October he was pulling back , and by December, he was out entirely . Meanwhile, production schedules almost immediately proved overly optimistic; by February 2017, when the show was originally slated to debut, the premiere had been pushed back twice , and its final date had still not been confirmed .

Then, earlier this summer, Fuller detailed the creative differences that forced his departure , painting a picture that would make fans of any franchise worry, let alone one with so much utopian, forward-thinking cachet, reemerging at a moment when its progressive ideals have become more urgent than ever, in Hollywood and beyond. CBS had insisted on a tight production schedule despite the fact that Fuller was already at work on Starz’s American Gods when Discovery was announced. On top of that, he said his wishes had been repeatedly denied — from his preference of directors, to his implied request for a more ambitious budget, to his desire to make the show an anthology series that would expand the Trek universe.

Yet since its beginnings on NBC half a century ago, a strained relationship between creator and network has practically been a cornerstone of Star Trek ’s very existence. Its history abounds with tales in which creator Gene Roddenberry, his showrunning successors, and the production studios that bankrolled them came up against objections and affronts from networks in their struggles to get what would become the franchise’s most successful entries to the small screen.

Indeed, if it hadn’t been for the original series’ modest yet industrious and deeply loyal fan base, Star Trek might have faded into obscurity within its first two years. Now, in this radically transformed era of television, their influence can still be seen everywhere, from Discovery ’s casting choices and writing staff to the cascades of Twitter reactions to last Sunday’s two-episode premiere. Just two episodes in, the showrunner-network-fan ecosystem has already made clear how it will ultimately shape Discovery ’s future, for better or worse.

How Trekkies helped birth the modern fandom era

Star Trek ’s unique relationship with its fans began as early as 1964, soon after Roddenberry first pitched his new show idea to Desilu Productions with a gross understatement: Star Trek , he said, was a “ Wagon Train concept ” — a Western set in space. Together, the studio and Roddenberry pitched the same idea to NBC, which was initially intrigued and commissioned a pilot.

What the network got was “The Cage,” a disturbing, bizarrely existential hour of television that was vastly more “cerebral” than the space Western that execs had anticipated. Nevertheless, they were interested enough to commission a rare do-over. The result, “Where No Man Had Gone Before,” featured a new star and an almost entirely new cast; the cool and collected Captain Christopher Pike was out, the more impulsive, cowboyish, relatable James T. Kirk was in. (A female first officer was also absent, after her presence was deemed too progressive for NBC audiences.)

After Star Trek debuted as part of NBC’s fall lineup in 1966, however, ratings remained fair at best, and by the end of the second season, NBC was ready to cancel the series and move on. Fans were devastated. As one, Betty Jo “Bjo” Trimble , has explained in the decades since, they knew that a two-season run meant the network would likely decline to air reruns, and Star Trek would be relegated to the dusty, forgotten coffers of TV history.

Together with her husband John, Trimble organized what is now recognized one of the first grassroots fan campaigns in Hollywood history : a letter-writing chain petitioning NBC to renew the series. The network received more than 110,000 postcards and letters (when I interviewed her in 2013, Trimble said an NBC employee told her that the final count was exponentially higher), and were ultimately swayed into ordering a third and final season.

While this sort of collective action is taken for granted today as just one thread in the fabric that is backlash culture , in an era when Hollywood had almost unrestrained power and audiences had such limited programming options, the idea that viewers could lobby a major television network — and win — was nothing short of revelatory.

Star Trek ’s journey to “crown jewel” status — and how it led to The Next Generation ’s one weird (syndication) trick

After that third of Star Trek season aired, the original series drew such excellent ratings in broadcast syndication for the next two decades, while subsequent films did so well at the box office, that by 1986, Paramount — having absorbed Desilu in 1967, just a year into Star Trek ’s existence — was proudly referring to the series as its “ crown jewel .” By the late 1970s, the studio was working with Roddenberry on a new Star Trek series; though that one ultimately failed due to budgetary and rights concerns, Star Trek remained a priority. A few years later, Roddenberry and Paramount developed Star Trek: The Next Generation.

Again, despite Star Trek ’s by then well-established profitability, networks were mysteriously reluctant to greenlight The Next Generation ; NBC and ABC wouldn’t order more than a pilot, while CBS and newcomer Fox each offered half-baked, partial commitments, like offering to try it as a miniseries first. Unsatisfied with their options, Paramount and Roddenberry finally opted to circumvent the networks entirely.

To do this, they constructed a unique distribution strategy : Traditionally, TV shows had been distributed by the Big Three networks — ABC, CBS, and NBC — to smaller stations around the country, which would supplement them with local content or syndicated shows that independent stations could purchase at will. But Paramount and Roddenberry were able to capitalize on goodwill and an unusually high demand for Star Trek from individual network affiliates and independent stations, who were profiting from reruns of the original series, and sell The Next Generation directly to those stations. Effectively, they distributed the show straight to fans, based on known interest, while circumventing major broadcasting corporations entirely.

The move paid off handsomely. The Next Generation debuted in the fall of 1987 on 137 local stations nationwide, and in the end, it was the most successful Star Trek series of all, running seven seasons and maintaining massive ratings throughout, even after Roddenberry’s death in 1991.

Both of The Next Generation ’s successors — 1993’s Deep Space Nine and 1995’s Voyager — could have likely benefitted from riding its wave of success, but at that point, Paramount had already developed a penchant for cutting out the broadcast network middleman; Deep Space 9 took The Next Generation ’s straight-to-syndication path, while Voyager was designed to debut via Paramount’s new TV arm (and CW predecessor) UPN, eliminating the need to vie for network approval at all.

Meanwhile, the Star Trek convention culture had exploded; after the first-ever event in 1971 — a fan-programmed affair whose attendance far outstripped organizers’ expectations — convention companies like Creation Entertainment and other groups of industrious Trekkies had started hosting multiple events every year worldwide. Together with general sci-fi conventions, these events were pulling in millions from licensed Star Trek merchandise, to say nothing of the secondary income sources photo-ops and signings created for often underpaid or underemployed genre actors.

By the time Enterprise wrapped its second season in the spring of 2003, UPN was practically a network in its own right; though Paramount would ultimately shutter UPN just a year after Enterprise ’s eventual cancellation, UPN had assumed the position NBC had been in with the original series, facing down all-time-low ratings despite the existence of a loyal Star Trek fan base. But in this case, the studio decided to compromise: Rather than choose between granting one more season and canceling altogether, as NBC had done with the original series, Paramount allegedly threw fans a bone by giving Enterprise two final seasons — the last two seasons of Star Trek to have graced the small screen, pending Discovery ’s arrival — that aired at half the length of previous ones.

What Trek and its fans hath wrought, and what Discovery stands to gain — or lose

Though shortened final seasons are of course a lot more common today, the modern television landscape would be practically unrecognizable to the Gene Roddenberry of 1964. CBS Television — which absorbed Paramount Television when CBS and Viacom merged in 2000 — has maintained its usual control of the new Trek property, taking the strategy one step further by keeping it exclusively behind a CBS All Access paywall. The franchise may no longer have a conservative parental adversary in NBC, but CBS TV seems to have recreated that same dynamic with Fuller anyway; in a Hollywood that overflows with more serialized TV content than viewers or creators know what to do with, the Fullers of the world can afford to abandon projects, as precious as they may be, should their creative vision be threatened.

This entertainment world is one that might never have existed without Trek fans’ persistent haranguing — whether through letter-writing campaigns or the unusual amount of interaction they enjoyed with showrunners as the Star Trek convention scene grew. Audiences, through social media, have since established an increasingly direct feedback channel with TV studios and creators.

The creators’ firmament, meanwhile, grows more diverse by the day, intensifying competition but also softening the ironclad gatekeeping laws that governed Hollywood in the late ‘60s. If and when CBS pushes back against Trek productions now, it can’t defend regressive decisions with ratings fears or limited options for profitability. Whether they like it or not, showrunners and networks alike have a crystal-clear view of core audiences’ expectations for a beloved franchise rooted in hyper-progressivism — and of the consequences that come from getting it wrong in an era when those values are in jeopardy.

In a sense, Star Trek: Discovery was born under the most ideal circumstances the Star Trek universe has ever known, so the stakes have, in a sense, never been higher. As a franchise that, by nature, asks humankind to be better, Star Trek has demanded these power dynamics from its inception, regardless of whether its creators’ limited imaginations or resources were able to provide it. After all, what would a post-capitalist space exploration utopia be without at least a little institutional opposition?

New episodes of Star Trek: Discovery are released each Sunday on CBS All Access.

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25 Incredible Star Trek Fan Theories (That Actually Got Confirmed)

Star Trek fans have been theorizing about aspects of the show for a long time. And they were right; some of these theories actually got confirmed.

Star Trek The Original Series, The Animated Series, The Next Generation, Deep Space 9, Voyager, Enterprise,  and  Discovery.  These seven shows (and 14 movies) all have threads of stories that continue between them in multiple arcs and character developments. It's not only hard to keep track of them all, but difficult to not make some of your own. That's exactly what some fans have decided to do; make their own theories .

Whether these theories happened during the run of the show, or after it ended, or before it even started is irrelevant. All that mattered was that someone was thinking about Star Trek at some point enough to want to make a greater story in their head about it. Although in this case, some of them decidedly came true!

Star Trek really is a franchise that permeates culture. That's what makes it so fun to talk about and discuss! To theorize about it's future is absolutely delightful! Of course, some take it as a time to complain about the future. Star Trek will always have those who love to mope! But we'll get past that!  Star Trek is a great show with lots of modern potential!  Discovery is clearly evidence of that great potential.

Join us on this list and see if you came up with any of these yourself!

25 What Have They Done With Them?

In the Star Trek universe, the physics are considered realistic and based slightly off of actual scientific advancements that might happen soon in the future. However, they sometimes go a bit too far in what is considered possible and impossible. Such is the transporter. Reginald Barclay, Dr. Pulaski, and Hoshi Sato were among a few of the members of Starfleet who simply refused to use the device. And for good reason.

Modern physics have discovered that the transporter would only be possible if you deconstructed yourself entirely, copied yourself, and then placed said copy where you originally desired to be. Or in non-technobabble terms: you get copied and your original body doesn’t come back. You simply don’t exist anymore. And thus, everyone who goes through it is not the exact same person that left. They’re...  gone .

24 Of Bajor

The Bajorans are a race of aliens that came out of Star Trek: Deep Space 9. They embodied the religious and at times extremist political viewpoints of a society. In a wormhole near their planet in the Bajoran system, they worshiped religious entities known as The Prophets .

For some time it was theorized that these Prophets were a highly evolved alien race of some sort.

Star Trek was never one to shy away from religion, but it usually had a scientific explanation for it in some way. However, once The Prophets said to Commander Sisko that they were “of Bajor”, it would have been assumed that they were highly evolved Bajorans. Combined with the reality that Bajorans started developing a planet-wide civilization in 500,000 BC , it could be assumed that the Bajorans evolved millions of years ago, meaning these Prophets could easily be Bajorans.

23 Where In Time Is Jonathan Archer?

Star Trek: Enterprise was known for a few things; wacky first season (as every Star Trek is known for, minus Discovery ), being canceled into its fourth season, and some interesting pre-Federation and Starfleet timelines. It had a few interesting stories as well involving Romulans, the Vulcan/Andorian War, and the reaching of warp 5. Future Guy is in there somewhere.

Future Guy is a holographic shadow that is from the future. Enterprise had quite a few story lines that involved time travel and future wars, and enemies influenced by people from different parts of time, and one character at the forefront of it all was Future Guy. However, the theory was that Future Guy was actually Captain Jonathan Archer of the Enterprise NX-01. Of course, nobody could know for sure, but eventually it was revealed by producer Brannon Braga that the eventual story line would have had Future Guy as Archer.

22 The Borg Are Coming! The Borg Are Coming!

During The Next Generation episode  Q Who , Q demonstrates how ill-prepared Starfleet is by sending the Enterprise D into distant space. For many years it was thought that this was a spiteful decision done by Q to show that the Federation is not prepared for the galaxy. And we bought into that!

Upon examination further into the episode, we realize that Q is in fact giving them a warning about the Borg.

And how do we know that? Because Data says so in a later episode. In The Best of Both Worlds , a Borg sphere wipes a crater size colony off the face of their planet. Data stated that this was the exact same destruction during TNG episode The Neutral Zone . This means that the Borg have been here and were coming anyway, and Q was warning them of it.

21 Figment Of My Imagination

Benny Russell is a character from the Deep Space 9 episode , Far Beyond the Stars. In it, Benny is a struggling, black science fiction writer who can’t seem to get his editor to read and like his stuff. It is the 1940s and 1950s, but the main book he’s written ( Deep Space 9 ) is considered outlandish for the time. Insofar that Benny is dubbed as crazy.

Supposedly, Benny has created all the characters in the Star Trek universe on his own. It isn’t that far fetched to believe that the barely published stories of a black man in the 1940s with a black captain of a black ship aren’t well known, but maybe Star Trek: Deep Space 9 is all a dream to the black writer. There are a few revealing aspects of both DS9 and Benny Russell’s story that say it’s a dream state.

20 Virtual Reality Forever

We have reasons to believe that the holodeck is a permanent facet of the Star Trek universe. Firstly, Elon Musk, head of Tesla and billionaire scientist, says so about our world. Secondly, we can see from some episode the possibility of it. The Doctor from Star Trek: Voyager is shown in the episode Projections that he can bleed and feel things and that Voyager is a fake program.

For the longest time, he’s convinced that every holodeck he escapes leads to a new one.

We see this in TNG ’s Ship in a Bottle episode. Dr. Moriarty create a fake Enterprise D inside of the Enterprise D, fooling people into believing that they are in reality. Further, the solution is to beam him into a casing where he pretends to live out the rest of his life. Thus, entirely possible that all of this is a holodeck.

19 Ash = Voq

Obviously, Star Trek: Discovery was recently shown on the CBS network, and therefore there are recent things that were spoilers that aren’t anymore. This show was predicted down to a ‘t.’ And one of the first predictions was that the new crew member , Ash Tyler, was actually Voq. It helps that Voq disappears and we never see him again, but we do see Ash Tyler constantly.

Eventually it was revealed later in Discovery that this was true, but it also helped that the actor who plays Ash Tyler used his father’s name for the actor who ‘played’ Voq. The fans had this predicted pretty early, but it was still a shock to see and figure out in the long term. Especially with the ramifications of the end.

18 Ash = Brainwashed Klingon Spy

So Ash Tyler is a Klingon. Got it! But why ? The fans had a semi difficult time figuring this one out! It ended up being pretty simple. In the short term it really wasn’t too clear on why Voq had to do all this stuff. However, it was eventually revealed that it had to do with being a spy for the Klingon House Mo’Kai . The House of Mo’Kai was known for being the ‘dishonorable’ spying House.

Of course, this worked to their advantage. By the end of the season, House Mo’Kai is the head of the Klingon Empire through people such as Ash Tyler, the Klingon spy for House Mo’Kai. So while this reveal came midway through the season, its usefulness came at the end.

17 Mirror, Mirror On The Wall...

And to round out our easy predictions, we have Captain Lorca, who commandeered Discovery for a short time, ended up being from the Star Trek Mirror universe. Discovery did an excellent job of setting up this villain (even if his ending was off base).

But Captain Lorca was a bit more brutal than the average fan liked.

In fact, a small minority of Star Trek fans thoroughly disliked how brutal Lorca was. Turns out they were right all along. He wasn’t a Starfleet Captain! He ended up being a confirmed mirror universe baddie who simply wanted to take control of the mirror universe throne from not as bad of a people! Like we said, never worked out for him. But fans were put at ease knowing he ain’t Starfleet!

16 ...Who's The Greatest Terran Of Them All

Michael Burnham was the first officer of Captain Georgiou aboard the USS Shenzhou. She was a natural second in command for the captain. She also betrayed the captain by causing a mutiny against her. This mutiny ended up ending a bunch of Klingons, but also getting Georgiou captured, and eventually ended. Karma pie ain’t done with you yet, Burnham!

Michael, of course, had the universe against her in some way! When they accidentally traveled to the mirror universe, Burnham was meant to confront the Emperor of that alternate reality. And who could it be other than the glorious Emperor Georgiou! Yes, the captain she betrayed would be an emperor  in another timeline! Of course, she saved this one instead, and brought her back to Burnham’s own timeline and they lived... decently.

15 Roma Invicta!

Emperor Georgiou surmised that the Federation reality had democratic values of equality, freedom, and liberty in them. The Federation to her was a bastion of hope and peace, none of which she liked, nor enjoyed. She was against those ideas at all costs. When speaking down to Burnham she mentions how they got rid of those ideas a long time ago. How long ago?

The Terran Empire may have existed since the time of the Roman Empire!

For example, although the Terran salute would have people thinking it belongs to the German Fascists, it truly belongs to the Roman Empire (where do you think the fascists got it from?). Also, the term Terran itself comes from the Roman primeval god , Terra. Also, the symbol for the Empire uses Latin , which was the official language of the Roman Empire.

14 Muddly Dudd

The subject of much discussion among trekkies was who Rainn Wilson would be playing in the series. He played roles of Dwight Schrute in The Office , a store clerk in Juno , and a dumped metal musician in The Rocker . All of them comedic roles, it was expected that his role would be comedic. Surprise, surprise when we hear a rumor about an episode involving Harry Mudd .

Harry Mudd is known for his crazy antics, his androids, and his ability to access technology that isn’t well known yet. Speculation paid off when he was shown as Mudd in a Klingon prison ship. And as revenge to Captain Lorca for abandoning him on the ship, he came back with a vengeance, destroying Lorca hundreds, if not thousands, of times.

13 The Collective "FINALLY"

In the far flung past of Star Trek series, the idea of having a gay  character or couple was considered of having less value. For all the progressive attitudes of Star Trek , this was a sad and overlooked mistake. Luckily, it was fixed when rumors came around that a happily gay couple would be coming about in Star Trek Discovery.  Can we all have a collective, “FINALLY!”

We saw this coming together in the vein of Paul Stamets and Hugh Culber . They had the first normal and average kiss of gay characters on a Star Trek series. It wasn’t overdone, and their being gay wasn’t the basis of their characters on the show. For once, Trek successfully used the adage “post-discrimination society.” The theory of a necessary gay couple came true in the end.

12 How Old Are You?

In the first trailers for Star Trek Discovery we see Klingons that do not look like the Klingons we know. They look very different. This was done on purpose, as a renewal of the Star Trek Klingons we know and love into a new (and honestly, improved ) warrior race. One theory about the change was that these Klingons were actually ancient Klingons, or an offshoot of the race of Klingons we have seen.

And although these Klingons are now considered the new Klingons, the ancient Klingons thing isn’t that far off.

The main ship they use in Discovery that helped them obtain the cloaking technology is called The Sarcophagus. Basically, it’s a Klingon Ship of the Dead that uses coffins as shields for the ship itself. Not only quite cool, metal, and brutal, but also expected of this ancient warrior race!

11 DNA Testing

Back before Star Trek Enterprise premiered, the Klingons underwent another great redevelopment. TNG had them bring on ridges on the forehead and other such outstanding anamolies. However, in TOS the Klingons looked like poorly painted people in blackface. The change was mostly ignored until the DS9 episode Trial and Tribble-ations. Worf stated that it was a different time. Boy, he got that right!

During the events of Enterprise , the Klingons did genetic testing and research, trying to enhance themselves with augmented genes. Through this, the fan theory that Klingons were trying to genetically test themselves became not only confirmed, but true. It was through Arik Soong’s tests on augments that these tests came about for the Klingons. Arik would go onto produce offspring who would create Data.

10 Black Badges

In the first few Star Trek Discovery episodes, it was flaunted that some of the Starfleet officers were wearing black badges. The fans didn’t know what to think. The only thing anyone could think of were that they were either special ops of some sort or the purposefully not so famous Section 31 . Section 31 wasn’t supposed to exist. They  weren’t supposed to be noticeable in the Star Trek universe.

However, in a revealed deleted scene for the final episode of season 1 for Star Trek Discovery , former emperor Georgiou would be approached by Starfleet officer who would offer her a position in Section 31. Although she would scoff at the position at first, when the man explained what the organization was, she opened a box and out came a black Starfleet badge, thus confirming the theory.

9 Who's A Good Boy!

In The Next Generation episode The Chase, we are confronted with multiple species having to work together to accomplish a goal that all of them want to fulfill. Some think it’s a weapon, some think it’s a higher intelligence, some think it’s a map. It turns out being a hologram from an ancient race of beings called the Progenitor Race . They coded all aliens in the galaxy to look like them in some small form.

Eventually we jump to Genesis, an episode about how the crew of the Enterprise D is devolving into animals. It doesn’t make much sense alone. Why would Barclay devolve into a bug, while Spot (a cat) devolve’s into a lizard (yep, didn’t see that coming, did ya)? Unless all races and species were the animals of the Progenitor Race. In that case, it would make sense! Theory confirmed!

8 Warp 36! Engage!

People got disgruntled with warp speed changes. How could ships ever go faster than warp 9.9? What happens when we get to 9.99999999999999? It doesn’t make sense ultimately. Some races went to Warp 36, while Voyager had their laughable episode about Tom Paris going warp 10 (and then devolving into a salamander and having kids with Captain Janeway...rough time for Voyager). So what happened?

Well, between TOS and TNG they changed the speeds. Warp factor works by constantly ramping up the speeds through a greater factor than before. Eventually the speeds are too high in number. So why not readjust those numbers? If warp 1 is always speed 1, then it simply involves changing the factor itself by 3 or 4. Thus, a greater warp is now smaller. It makes sense, considering we are from the perspective of the Federation, the greater group.

7 They Knocked, But No One Answered

Let’s talk about the elephant in the Star Trek Enterprise room. Trip Tucker had a terrible passing in the final episode of the series, and it should never have been. The episode was universally panned as being a quick end without any real legitimacy. Deanna Troi and Will Riker are in a holographic program that is the final episode of the series.

Trip’s passing ended up being pointless and highly questioned by the fans.

At the same time, we might have a fix already realized. Trip passing was only a part of the holonovel that was activated. We don’t actually know if he was a part of a real universe passing. Further evidence points to a beta-canon book that reveals Trip actually did not perish, but became a part of Section 31. That would make him a part of the universe and still alive.

6 Tom Paris = Nick Locarno

Robert Duncan McNeill was a Star Trek actor that played in two different roles during the series. He was known most widely as being Tom Paris, the admiral’s son and main comm and nav officer for Voyager. He was also known as Nicholas Locarno, a student expelled from Starfleet Academy for leading his team in a banned starfighter maneuver that got a student ended. The truth is not always widely seen though.

Some have theorized that both people are the same. The last time we see Nick he is taking credit for the passing of a student and expelled. The first time we see Tom is in a penal facility and also known as former Starfleet. Being an admiral’s son, he would have had to potentially have a fake name as not to get shown favoritism. Likewise, it makes sense considering both had a penchant for bad life choices.

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Jason Isaacs Attempts To Clarify Controversial Comments About Star Trek Fans

| August 16, 2017 | By: TrekMovie.com Staff 211 comments so far

Over the weekend, the New York Daily News ‘Confidential’ gossip column reported some controversial comments from Star Trek Discovery’s Jason Isaacs, who plays Captain Lorca of the U.S.S. Discovery. The article got the notice of Star Trek’s first captain, William Shatner, and has resulted in an exchange of tweets between the two actors.

Tabloid quotes Isaacs talking about ‘outraged’ Star Trek fans

The article quotes Isaacs saying:

“I don’t mean to sound irreverent when I say I don’t care about the die-hard Trek fans. I only ‘don’t care’ about them in the sense that I know they’re all going to watch anyway. I look forward to having the fun of them being outraged, so they can sit up all night and talk about it with each other.”

The column also added the following, but without any attribution: “Isaacs, 54, said the new show will throw away the legacy of William Shatner and Patrick Stewart.”

Shatner responds

Apparently that bit about legacies got the attention of William Shatner, who tweeted a screen grab of the article to Isaacs with a ‘hushed face’ emoji:

@jasonsfolly 😯 pic.twitter.com/kHUaFncFmk — William Shatner (@WilliamShatner) August 14, 2017

Isaacs clarifies and issues a dare

As it was from a gossip column and possibly being taken out of context, we awaited Isaacs’ response, which came late Tuesday night. He took exception to the NYDN coverage, denying he said anything about the legacy of Shatner and attempted to clarify his comments about fans. Isaacs also followed up his response to Shatner with another tweet, apparently directed to fans who took umbrage with the comments from the Daily News:

That said, for the few idiots offended enough to tell me 1) to go fuck myself and 2) they'll never watch 1) I'm my top choice 2) I dare you — Jason Isaacs (@jasonsfolly) August 16, 2017

Shatner just responded to the first tweet, and he seems to accept that Isaacs was not being portrayed accurately by the Daily News (which he refers to as the Daily Mail, which is actually from the UK).

It was the Daily Mail so you take what they write with a grain of salt. 🤷🏼‍♂️😘 https://t.co/NRaAZuWV4O — William Shatner (@WilliamShatner) August 16, 2017

As for Isaacs’ “dare” to those who claim they won’t watch the Discovery , Shatner notes “a challenge has been made.” 

A challenge has been made! 🤔 https://t.co/yjphrl06pe — William Shatner (@WilliamShatner) August 16, 2017

So that appears to be it with this latest little Discovery controversy.

Star Trek: Discovery   premieres on September 24th  on CBS with all subsequent episodes on  CBS All Access  in the US.  In Canada  Star Trek: Discovery  will premiere on Bell Media’s CTV and the Space Channel on the same night. Netflix will launch  Star Trek: Discovery  on Monday, September 25 to countries outside of the U.S. and Canada.

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To be fair, Isaacs has a point about some of the “fans” – the ones who are constantly littering the boards with their hatred, their sense of superiority over fans whom they deem “not true Star Trek fans”, and are constantly griping about their discomfort ( to put it mildly ) about “Diversity”.

Their is no equivalency of optimistic, hopeful, loving fans ( who do wish and hope for the best with DSC ) with fans who are spitting malice and have decided DSC must be condemned ( without the show even airing yet) – and yet, there is no doubt, the hateful fans WILL be watching. EVERY EPSISODE.

I know I’ll be watching… Orville.

-Star Trek Nerd

Devon. I think that may be the best thing to do.

Well, I get to watch both!

I’ll be watching both as well.

I am excited for both as well!

I agree with you Spock Jenkins. Plus I will add that there is nothing wrong with wanting the show to stand on its own two feet. We already have Kirk and Picard. I want to see Lorca be his own captain. Add something new to the universe…no need to do retreads.

The show is going to tank huge.

Will you pay me one million quatloos if you’re wrong?

I have my concerns about the show however I am reserving my complete judgement until the show airs. Why don’t we all wait until then to declare it a failure or a success.

Hmm. That sounds way too reasonable to be a viable position.

Steph, I think it would be wise to wait until SEVERAL episodes have aired before passing judgement. After all, most fans agree that the first season of TNG was awful, but it went on to become excellent. ;-)

Yup. DS9 took a while to get into its stride as well. And the Kazon years aren’t a good indication of what Voyager became (there’s a before and an after Kes/Seven of Nine).

That was the case in the 80s & 90s. Nowadays if a show doesn’t hit the mark by the second or third episode, people will simply turn to watch something else given the amount of options they have now and not wait for the show to improve.

This applies to all new TV shows and not just Star Trek.

Good point!

Very possible & quite likely.

paying to watch really makes it an easy call to skip (unless the 1st hour is dynamite, in which case I’ll be surprised and a little bummed.) Gonna skip the rest anyway, because I put my money into TWIN PEAKS, which is paying off more than I had hoped.

Hmm. Strange position for a genre reporter to be in, not watching the first Trek series in over a decade. But without a doubt, it is your money. 😊

@Michael Hall – Kevin Martin is not a real Trek fan.

Thanks for clarifying, Thompson — if you mean, ‘not a lemming who embraces anything with the brand slapped on it,’ you are, for once, correct.

Michael Hall, I’ve got lots of family med issues and real-world stuff to deal with, so in terms of disposable income, there’s just not any. Paying for a month of TREK — even if I could possibly justify if as a writeoff, which is not a certainty since I have been on hold with CBS for a confirmed/assigned VFX article over the last three months now — is not practical.

Well, I hope you didn’t take that as a dig because I certainly didn’t intend it that way. I think you’re a fine writer and am sorry to hear of your financial issues, but it’s your money and you need make no explanations to me in any case. Peace.

Twin Peaks is over soon, and a well-timed trial or one month purchase of All-Access a few weeks out from the finale is the cost of a couple coffees from Starbucks.

I agree with Isaacs. He shouldn’t care about attracting die hard Trek fans because they aren’t enough to sustain this show. This is a show that must attract more mainstream appeal from critics and audiences who don’t care about Trek all while being a show that fans can find enjoyment out of.

@Bud — yup, and the few of them who can figure out how to stream CBSAA, will probably be happier reliving Braga’s best of TNG hits via the Orville, on free network TV, since most are probably too old to still be living in their parents basement …

Curious Cadet, when you have to turn to tired old stereotypes to dismis people because you can’t argue against their opinions with facts or intelligence- how sad.

Really? Wow Bud, You couldn’t be more Wrong. The DIE HARD TREKKIES are the ones who have been supporting the shows in the Past, the reason Star Trek has struggled is because Enterprise & Nemesis was because the Studios started diverting the show & marketing from recognizable Star Trek towards non fans & Alienating the Fans & Splitting the Fan base without attracting those desired new fans.

Hahaha you obviously share the view of the studios but you are totally wrong- who else but the Die hard fans would Pay for the show- that’s why they used Star Trek to Launch/Carry All Access, that’s why Netflix payed for it then CBS/ Paramount/Bad Robot disrespect the fans & their finances by making a non Prime Reboot then continuing to lie about it in the press- right up until today.

All this trying to get the wider mainstream audience. Star Trek is not a mainstream show- It can never be because it is too intelligent & sophisticated & Diverse for the general audience- How Star Trek has always survived was what it lacked in numbers it made up in passion. It had dedicated fans who supported it like it was a religion.

TNG ended up a huge popular success. GoT has lavish production values and lots of nudity and gore, but its success is at least equally rooted in the wonderful performances and storytelling. There’s no reason that Trek can’t be popular and good.

I totally agree.

“All this trying to get the wider mainstream audience. Star Trek is not a mainstream show..”

Where were you in 1966? 2009? 2013? 2016? My 86 year old uncle, was a grease monkey mechanic… would never watch a science fiction movie, but loved Star Trek. It was required weekly viewing for him. My nieces,one a school teacher, the other in college never watched Star Trek…never wanted to…watched 2009 Trek as well as it’s sequels, admittedly due to Chris Pine. My nephew saw it because it was the latest blockbuster of the week. My neighbor, who thought Trek was stupid came into the fold with Trek Into Darkness on Netflix, because his wife loved “Sherlock Holmes”. he watched it with her and has since watched the other 2 “JJ” movies. Neither of them are interested in TV Trek. Old or new…but I dare say, if the new show was on Netflix, they would probably watch it because it’s new and they are into binge watching all these new serialized shows. So Trek has attracted the mainstream…lately, more so than ever, which, in turn, has made Trek more money than ever. Trek awareness, outside of fandom, is alive and well.

Can barely follow your post, but what about Enterprise and Nemesis was a studio-driven diversion that alienated fans? Bad writing alienated the fans, and Enterprise at least had a chance to rectify that. Awful finale aside, its last two years were a fairly successful attempt to go out on a high, and that involved a lot of TOS callbacks in the final year which fandom embraced. As for JJ Trek, it’s messy semi-Trek, but financially it has done better than any previous Trek film had, it’s just too expensive to keep going at its current rate of erosion. But being a superior film didn’t get First Contact, The Wrath of Khan or The Undiscovered Country $300 million at the box office. You cannot get so riled up about CBS using Star Trek to anchor All Access. Paramount/Viacom used Star Trek this way since Star Trek Phase II was a gleam in potential Paramount Network executives’ eyes. TNG and Voyager both opened up new distribution models for Paramount that sidestepped the middlemen at the networks, and Discovery is sidestepping Netflix/Amazon where CBS has no digital presence. As for Star Trek not being mainstream, sure, it wasn’t, except when it was. TNG’s mainstream popularity was enough to launch three spin-offs, DS9 premiered to Star Trek’s best ratings ever, Voyager premiered in the top 25 shows its first week on a new mini-network’s first night, and each show since 1987 was lavished with a large budget (“Caretaker” cost $25 million), despite the misgivings of the creative departments on how much money was left for them to spend each week. Science fiction is expensive and fans and non-fans alike expect it to look good as much as they demand it be written well. Hell, Doctor Who gets flak when its CGI gets ropey, and even many of “Enterprise’s” production values aren’t going to cut it nowadays. High-end casting decisions, FX, sets, makeup and costumes cost money and that means taking some bets on widening the audience appeal outside the hardcore fanbase, as well as hedging some bets by throwing the show behind a paywall. These are not easy choices, but being so cynical and perturbed does no one any good. If the premiere is awful, fine. If the first season is awful, fine. This whining though before the fact is both typical and as irritating as ever.

I would point out that annoying as they are to cater to, die-hard fans could easily be quantified as at least the number of viewers “Enterprise” still had left a decade ago. For a show on CBS proper that’s nothing, but for a streaming service behind a paywall, those 3 million viewers would be the equivalent of hitting a vein of diamonds.

I can name three fans who have stopped watching Trek completely these past ten years. One of them used to post here on TM!

You should watch what your saying Jason & Jenkins. It does happen, and until this article and comments, I have not given it much consideration. But with the downward trend in quality in these last few treks (minus the special effects, those have only gotten better), it seems the logical to abandon what is now left of Star Trek.

Ps. This article actually STRENGTHENS my previous argument that Paramount hold on the Star Trek brand, and copyrights are completely unenforceable and have IN FACT been abandoned — FOR DECADES!

Anaxar. You should have followed my advice and challenged them in court with this defense. H_ll they are even abandoning the fans.

The advertisers should love this spin. I wonder. Does the studio have a clause against actors saying dumb things?

As a fan of the Trek franchise for over 30 of it’s 50 years, I don’t feel like they are abandoning me at all. I am quite excited for Discovery.

How dare you try to connect the Fans Like Myself who are reacting to Discovery disrespecting Cannon & Genes Vision, Concept, Format & Rules but Still calling itself Star Trek & wanting us Disrespected fans to Pay for their Show & The TRUMP Supporter Charlottsville style Racists who have issues with Diversity in Star Trek- They are Absolutely unrelated- one is a rel creative concern the other is Racism.

No matter what anyone here might claim, every single person here WILL be watching Discovery. It’s not even worth pretending they won’t be, because they will.

@Arggggggh — except the ones who can’t figure out how to stream CBSAA ;-)

They’ll wait for the Blu-ray! ;)

Spock Jenkins: To be fair, there is the kind of fans who put down any criticism about Discovery and who claim that those who don’t love it already now are no true fans.

And please distinguish those (many) who complain about Discovery not staying true to the legacy from those (very few) who refuse the diversity of the show. I’m tired of the media coverage about racism among fans and of the strawman attacks at fandom – perform a Google search for “Star Trek Discovery criticism” and 90% of the results are about alleged and true racist statements! We know better that for the vast majority of fans, having diversity is a no-brainer and that other aspects than just the pet peeves of the media or of the cast and crew are important. I am sick of frequently being associated with racists just because I don’t like several aspects about the show.

Regarding the clarification, it is bad journalism that Isaacs was misquoted. I’m sorry he was attacked. But in the core, it seems that the following statement was authentic: “I look forward to having the fun of them being outraged, so they can sit up all night…” And I find it offensive.

Speak for yourself. Oh, I’m sorry…is that “hateful” of me? Tough. Put on your big girl panties & grow a pair.

And NO….I will NOT be watching. I’ll watch the pilot on CBS, but I WON’T be subscribing to All Access. Bet on it, my arrogant friend.

I’ll pass, thanks. I only bet on things I care about, and there is nothing — absolutely, positively nothing — in this world I care less about than whether you watch Discovery or not.

Oh, no…you mean there are actually people out there who disagree with you? How terrible! What kind of world do we live in today when not everyone agrees with everyone else? Awful.

Not me; at least, not any time soon.

I’ve been a Trekkie since 1967, when I watched TOS on a small black & white TV in the kitchen because my father thought it was junk and wouldn’t let us put it on in the living room. I was at the opening night of most of the first several films, and TNG was a weekly hosted event.

But, as DS9 got darker and grimmer, I lost a lot of interest; I really tried to like Voyager, but just couldn’t do it.

When they announced Enterprise, I had high hopes for a return to the wonder and optimism of the original series. No dice more grim and dark, and anachronistic tech. The supplicants said “you can’t make it look like the original in this day and age”, but “In a Mirror, Darkly” showed that they could, they just didn’t want to.

As for JarJar Trek, I won’t even dignify it with an analyses.

Now we have the latest “Star Trek is what we say it is, so shut up and watch it”. I might, eventually, when it’s on Youtube.

But for now, Jason Isaacs’ position reminds me an awful lot of the ads for New Coke.

“I’m my top choice.” Awesome.

i liked that,too!

The man does not seem to suffer fools gladly, does he?

Its likely just playful banter. Nothing bad or unusual.

I loved Jason Isaacs with his first comments and I love him even more with the tweets. He’s a free thinker and a straight shooter. Everything he said is on point.

He’s a condescending, Arrogant, disrespectful A**hole who doesn’t deserve his role, at least some of the other actors get they have stepped into something special by being cast in a show called Star Trek (even if it isn’t actually Star Trek in nature)

Well, he may indeed be all of those things. Or, not. Don’t know the man. But I haven’t always heard the greatest things about Bill Shatner over the years either. Still, he did pretty good by that Starship Captain gig.

To quote Shatner. .. “Get a life.”

Trek fan 67,

Re:“Get a life.”

You can’t assign quotes to actors for merely reciting their written lines. Proper attribution for quoting goes to Robert Smigel who wrote it for his fictional Shatner character that the game real actor agreed to perform, because the line as written expresses the author’s (Smigel is a self-described “bully comic”. See his other creation: Triumph, The Insult Comic Dog) sentiments and ideas.

Save it for the pedantic dome E.B. White

…Rick Sanchez (paraphrased)…

The Lensman,

Might seem such since I abridged my normal screed where I point out Seth Meyers said the SNL writers claimed the funniest thing about the line never aired as Shatner never heard the line used before and kept exploring saying it and got it hilariously wrong every time. Smigel eventually demonstrated the proper intonation.

And William Shatner is a doe-eyed saint and Kate Mulgrew never once tried to make Jeri Ryan’s life a living hell on set. Just stop.

Go climb a rock.

Pretty clear what he went. And yet some fans went as hilariously nuts as expected, making the actor’s original point all the more delightful.

I guess sadly FAKE NEWS from much of the media isn’t limited to politics. To much BS just to sell papers and get clicks.

It’s clear what he meant & he made the other comments off camera.

Why did you have to put ‘fake news’ in all-caps?

Because the only way to use the word ‘fake news’ is to scream it out into the world ;-)

Yeah, guess there’s no better way to put your case than overstating it. Geez, the internet…

Just because it has become a common frase used by both sides for news thats appears to be false. Perhaps I should have used quotes. What’s the big deal?

His original comment made my like him already, no need to clarify anything

So the show is attracting idiots .

Only on the troll side.

More like the show is attracting people who a.) aren’t afraid of Trek trying new things and b.) have better things to do than complain about every damn thing this show or anyone associated with it says or does

I resemble that remark.

Congrats on being the precise type they’re expecting to eat this new slop up without question. You do realize they think you’re a mindless idiot that’ll watch anything they put the Trek name on, right?

I have quite a few questions, thanks. And you’re obviously quite a type of your own.

Jason Isaacs is clearly irreverent and thrives on a bit of controversy. Empirical evidence would seem to suggest that these are often qualities found in some of our best artist.

Hurtful trouble makers are not the same as Artists. Artists build & inspire not destroy & degrade.

Nope. Not all great art is inspirational, sorry.

He dares fans not to watch? Did he ever hear about ST:Enterprise?

Yes. And fans watched it. Casual viewers did not. Have a look at what came out of that, and guess why Isaacs is worried about attracting casual viewers, but not die-hard fans.

@Salvador Nogueira,

Fans left ENT in droves.

He is obviously Ignorant as well.

Aweh, poor little TOS butterfly purists! GET A LIFE! :P

Without TOS, there is no new Star Trek show. They need to stop messing with the ideals and the formula that made that show survive 50 years !!

I agree about the ideals (the “formula,” otoh, could definitely use some tweaking). But how do you know for a fact that they are?

Obviously you can’t read.

That show didn’t survive 50 years. It survived three years and was reincarnated again and again with slight tweaks. DSC is a tweak too.

I have a feeling Lorca won’t go beyond the first season. He’s got a doomed villain vibe about him, but then again Isaacs always does.

What’s contaversial about his comments? I don’t see anything wrong with what he said.

Really? That the Kirk & picard don’t matter, he enjoys the fact Discovery is alienating fans & dares them not to watch? He’s a condescending, arrogant, ignorant A**hole & doesn’t deserve his “Space boots”

I think someone needs a hug and a cup of hot cocoa.

I think you mistake Trekboi’s passion and respect of Trek and its history as as something that should be made fun of.

Very demeaning. Stop that!

DON’T LITTER!

I don’t fault him for his passion for Trek and its history, having a fair amount of that myself, and probably for longer than he’s been alive. It is possible, however, to take your passions too seriously, particularly in the case of a TV space opera. If you’re getting angrier over the irreverent attitude of a TV actor than what happened in Charlottesville, or Barcelona, or the condition of the West Antarctic ice sheet, you’re probably taking this stuff way too seriously, not to mention personally.

Really, it’s all in gentle good fun. :-)

@Michael Hall,

Seriously? Are you actually using the tragic events that took place in Charlottesville & Barcelona as a way to criticize a fan on a Star Trek forum?

Reasonable human beings are rightly angry about those horrific events but Trekmovie is not a political forum where people are allowed to express their anger.

Nah, just suggesting that views towards a particular iteration of a TV space opera aren’t worth getting frothing-at-the-mouth-upset about (“he’s a condescending, arrogant a-hole”), as opposed to real-world events that are. You are, of course, free not to make that distinction yourself.

I don’t know why anyone takes notice of newspapers any more. At best they are full of half truths. But mostly they are lies.

Not all of them. Media literacy is an important trait for all of us to improve.

It’s always lots of fun to have an outspoken actor . Will be keeping half an eye on for Discovery ! Really enjoyed Star Trek Enterprise , and even if Discovery is for the new generation , wish them well !

I have nothing against Mr Isaacs or his work. I have enjoyed many of his films and performances. However it doesn’t appear to be a secret that he isn’t fond of fan culture. My partner and i saw him at a fan signing for his show Awake at SDCC some years back and he made no effort to engage with anyone nor hide the fact that he didn’t want to be there. I’ve seen similar behavior at other conventions he has attended. At the end of the day i suppose none of that matters, as long as the show is good and he is good in it I’m happy.

That sounds like Avery Brooks. Bummer for those on the convention circuit, but my main concern will always be: is the actor any good in the role?

Avery Brooks is fun at conventions. Never seems like he doesn’t want to be there, merely that he DGAF what people think, he’s comfortable in his own skin and eccentricities. He just comes across as a crazy professor. With tenure.

One minute people claim the world is too PC and that people are too sensitive. The next minute, they complain about their hurt feelings and how they don’t like an actor. 9 times out of 10, they’re the same ones who claimed that Star Trek is now all about SJWs and not the “true” fans. To be frank, the original comment comes off as a very British way of saying “If they don’t like our take on it then good, that means controversy, and that means buzz for the show.”

I LOVE Isaacs’ response to “Go fuck yourself;” that’s a good one! :-)

I’m not offended either. I mean, we shouldn’t expect and it’s not fair for EVERY actor/actress who enters a Star Trek show to become a full fledged member of the community. Jason Issacs just wants to do a good job in his latest acting gig, get paid and enjoy the perks of his profession. If someone asks him a question, he will give an honest answer…I can imagine that this is how a REAL captain will behave!

If they don’t want to enter the community- then Don’t be on the show! Simple.

Were Shatner, Nimoy, Kelley, et al members of “the community” when they signed on?

A dumb retort since there was no community to being with when they signed on. Those guys were the founders of the Trek phenomenon.

Uh, yeah. My point, exactly. Why is it essential for actors cast in a modern Trek series to be fans themselves when the originals weren’t? What’s important is that they have the chops to play their parts convincingly, just as with any other show. Whether or not they really love hanging out at Comic Con is really none of my business, or yours.

Obviously actors don’t need to be fan of the franchise they’re working on. Not sure where are you getting this “love hanging out at Comic Con” prerequisite, didn’t address that in my comment and it is a dumb point as well.

My, are you just looking to pick a fight? Here’s what I was responding to, which wasn’t even your post:

“If they don’t want to enter the community- then Don’t be on the show! Simple.”

Which, in turn, was responding to this:

“I mean, we shouldn’t expect and it’s not fair for EVERY actor/actress who enters a Star Trek show to become a full fledged member of the community.”

Which means I was only agreeing with your statement that “Obviously actors don’t need to be fan of the franchise they’re working on.” Quit looking for things to be angry about.

If you don’t like what you see or hear them say then don’t watch the show! Simple.

FUck him, he should be killed of in the First episode, and have the Leading lady Sonequa Martin be out First African American Female Star Trek Captain ! ~ T

He’s drumming up buzz. I bet the producers are absolutely delighted.

Yup! Still a month to go, though.

There’s no controversy here.

*Sigh*. These days, there’s controversy everywhere.

thus far, i have not subscribed to CBS All Access. No plans to do so.

I plan on watching the first episode on CBS. If it’s knock your socks off, maybe…maybe I’d spring for it. But there’s no reason to rush into a subscription. I’ll see what they are selling first on CBS. Otherwise I may just wait until it comes out on DVD/Blu-Ray down the road (if it’s at least average you can bet CBS will milk what they can out of it, including DVD sales). As someone who likes consistency, I do have concerns, but I’ll try to keep an open mind.

“Meanwhile the poor Babel fish, by effectively removing all barriers to communication between different cultures and races, has caused more and bloodier wars than anything else in the history of creation.” Douglas Adams was right. He just neglected to call it “social media”.

Hee! Good one!

All in good fun. I wouldn’t count on Trek fans watching no matter what is put out anymore — that didn’t work on the last two movies. I’ll watch, and if it’s good I’ll continue. But nothing is guaranteed past the premiere. And is he saying Lorca is going to be less classically heroic than previous captains? That could be a problem for fans and non fans.

While Trek fans complement themselves for saving TOS or Trek in general, their sense of entitlement is now holding Trek back. Might be time to jettison much of the base if Trek wants to recapture its edge and move ahead.

So Moauvian Wapul, who is going to watch & Support (buying merchendise/attending events) Star Trek if they Jettison the Star Trek fans who have supported the franchise for Decades? Casual fans? CASUAL Fans? do you know what Casual means?

It is so mind blowing- Star Trek’s “EDGE”was its utopian future, that people wanted to live in- that’s exactly what they are Jettisoning to attract the general audience.

Sad to say I’m older than the vast majority of these people, yet I’m too young to have had anything to do with TOS being saved in its third year. People take this stuff way too personally.

Only Doctor Who rival Star Trek for having lasted so long with a largely uninterrupted line of continuity. It’s a wonderful thing, but after so many decades it becomes a huge issue when nitpicking fans take umbrage with everything yet are hypocritical at the same time.

What’s really unfortunate here is that, like many others these days, he’s using the ”haters gonna hate” excuse to dismiss all the criticism, valid or not.

Being as not a single episode of the show has aired, I don’t think he owes the “critics” any respect at all. After 09/24, of course, DSC is fair game.

But we have seen things: trailers, production stills, news articles. So the criticisms are not totally blind. True that we don’t have a full picture and should wait to pass full judgment, but we have enough to start making preliminary assessments.

Very preliminary. Criticism of what’s been seen so far is fine (I’ve had some myself), but asserting the show is going to tank because you don’t like the uniforms is just plain silly.

The problem is that both sides (mine, who are not liking what we’re seeing so far, and your, who, apologies if I misread your statements, are quite excited for it) are far too often building strawmen of the other.

I will watch at least the first episode (I can watch more for some time, as I livr in the U.S. amd can’t justify paying more money for something I won’t use almost at all), and hope to be wrong about my feelings so far. But I have neither seen nor read hardly anything that seems like it adheres to ‘Star Trek’ lore or history.

No, I don’t think that they should be using papier-mâché rocks or anything of that sort, I do hope that they update the visuals but remain true to the in-universe era they claim to be in. I do not see that. I see nothing that indicates it, nor do I see the hopeful, optimistic future that propelled ‘Star Trek’ to be a cornerstone of sci-fi pop culture that ir became.

Again, I do hope to be wrong. I really want ‘Star Trek’ to be back, but so far, I simply am not seeing it. I see generic science fiction (which can be fun, I love many simple, cookie-cutter sci-fi stories), but not ‘Star Trek’.

Sorry, “…and yours, who…” “I can’t watch…” “…as i live in the U.S. and…” “…that it became.”

Damn typos, LOL. I really should proof-read before sending. ;-)

Good reply, and no apologies necessary. I would characterize my feelings at the moment as “reasonably excited, with caveats” (see what I did there?). Not too dissimilar to where I was prior to May of 2009, since I love Trek and always hope for the best, especially when fresh faces (and hopefully new ideas) get their chance, as the unproduced Phase II, the early years of TNG, and the latter part of the Berman era show what can happen when things get stale. But for all my hopes I was badly burnt in 2009, and remain wary as a consequence to this day.

I wasn’t going to watch before, and I’m certainly not gonna watch now. This guy can really go fuck himself.

Didn’t know there was a substantive difference between “not going to watch” and “certainly not going to watch.” Fascinating.

He did just Fu*k himself & the show lol

How so? You really think most people care?

No he didn’t. How?

Your man strikes me as quite the hysteric, sorry. I’ll bet I’ve been a TOS fan longer than he’s been alive, and Isaac’s comments don’t faze me at all.

I think the thing that sort of gets under my skins more than anything is the show runners saying this is part of canon and so forth and it’s looking more and more like a reimaging. Frankly, they’d be better off just pulling off the Band-Aid and admitting it’s a reimaging. Sure it might get the purists upset…at first. And some would not come around, but they’ve lost those people anyway so might as well just come out and say this is set in a different reality. Personally, for me, I would have preferred a different time period. Had they gone say 100 years past Nemesis, that’s far enough removed that they could do pretty much anything they wanted and said it was part of the prime timeline. As long as they didn’t suddenly rewrite history, something like saying the Dominion War never happened for example, they’d be pretty safe. But 10 years before the original series. There’s just no way you can shoehorn that in, say it’s part of the existing canon and hope the fans buy into all the inconsistencies. Why they even wanted to try to tackle that is beyond me. Abrams movies got around it by basically creating a different time line, and having Leonard Nimoy be the anchor between the two. It was actually pretty ingenious, as I have noted before, allowing them to say Star Trek (2009) is a sequel, reboot and prequel, all at the same time.

Well, I thought Trek 2009’s multiverse wrinkle was a huge bit of nonsense on multiple levels. But may I ask, respectfully, why this is so important to you? Even if every Trek series going forward was a sequel, would you be able, on a visual level, to take TOS seriously as a depiction of life three centuries from now? Now there will be a contemporaneous show that doesn’t fit with its ’60s-era design and production values. So long as it doesn’t contradict anything story wise, what difference does it make?

The old it has to be a complete recreation of TOS or total reboot & nothing in between. Ughh.

I hear your point, but I would respectfully say that there is a difference between updating and using more modern technology to create a show and it’s look AND completely redoing a shows’s look so as to ignore what has gone before. There is certainly no need to create a set design for what a starship and its crew might have looked exactly like 10 years before Kirk and Co, some care should be taken. Everything I’ve seen of this show looks as if it’s JJverse set design. Fine. No issues. Set it in JJverse. But, if its prime time line, think creatively as to how to update a look while remaining true to cannon.

Yes, the classic series is a 60’s idea of the future. No need to redo that. But, if you’re going to do a prequel, you have to respect what went after. My opinion.

Look, personally, and its hard to tell in posts, I have no antipathy or anger re the new show. I hope it does well. But, for several reasons, I am extremely apathetic about it, and won’t pay extra money to watch it on a streaming service. I’ll likely read episode recaps on line, and that’s it. I’m a die hard Trek fan, but I’d rather have seen them move forward rather than revisit the past yet again.

Well, I hated the production design of the Kelvin films for the most part, and think what I’ve seen of Discovery so far is actually a good deal closer to the design lineage of TOS in many respects (though admittedly it’s still quite a stretch). But it won’t stop me from watching the show, even if I myself would have preferred something closer in style. To each, his own.

I disagree that it’s closer in line with the classic series lineage, but that, in itself, isn’t stopping me from watching. It’s an amalgam of reasons. I do wish the show well, but I’ll be sitting out. I may read episode recaps/reviews to see what the story winds up being, but not more than that. Honestly, I have less issues with the JJverse designs because of the alternate universe deal and history changing aspect of the story. I’ve watched a lot of Trek over the years. I think they should have moved forward not back. But that’s my two cents only.

I don’t know that DSC’s Starfleet designs are too far removed from “Enterprise.” Really, unless we subscribe to Simon Pegg’s desperate after-the-fact attempt to explain every JJ Trek inconsistency as being down to the time rift affecting everything to Chekhov’s hair to Sulu’s sexual orientation, we have to consider that the look of the Kelvin is largely a Prime universe design we need to accept as much as we strain to justify Nero’s highly un-Romulan ship and makeup. Based on that, DSC isn’t wildly off base, it’s just the Klingons that people get into a tizzy about, as if we all really think that KISS wigs and outdated costumes are gonna fly in 2017. JJ and co. got credit for trying to keep Prime fans happy but also got their wrists slapped for doing it messily. Trek fans act like semi-socialized pets all the time, you never know if they’ll appreciate or bite you at any moment, no matter what you do.

“Trek fans act like semi-socialized pets all the time, you never know if they’ll appreciate or bite you at any moment, no matter what you do.”

Okay, I’m giving you the Internets of the Day Award for that one. So long as I can steal it.

I love your “semi-socialized pets” comment. Ha. Re the JJverse Trek, I have some issues there that come down to sloppy choices they made. One big one was the Cumberbatch casting. Great actor. Wrong part. But, hey, first world cinema/tv problems. Not the end of the world.

Honestly, If I had been the producers of the new series, I would have moved forward….less issues with canon etc, and a bigger slate to create a brand new world. Heck, they could have still even used a “relative of Spock” if they wanted to. Nimoy said in interviews that Saavik stayed behind on Vulcan in Trek IV because she was pregnant with Spock’s child. His words, not mine.

In the end, first world problems. I wish the show well. Just not paying extra to a streaming service to watch. I’ll read recaps of the episodes.

I agree with all of this. I’m looking forward to Discovery but I also think they should just call it a reboot and be done with it. Its this very strange line how they keep saying everything is ‘in canon’ and yet we now have a Klingon war that never really existed and Spock suddenly has an adopted sister. Again, not the end of the world for me personally but I can understand how it would bother others they basically just redid this era of Trek from the look of the ships, Klingons to the uniforms but then claim its all in line what has come before.

Its a very nuance argument. I really wish they set it after Nemesis they could’ve done anything they wanted. In fact if you imagined this show 50 years after Nemises, basically everything about it from the uniforms to the Discovery ship itself would fit right in because nothing in that time period has been written yet.

Hopefully it will all work itself out and fans will embrace it but it is a gamble.

Again–can you take TOS seriously as a believable vision of life in 2266? So why worry about a modern show somewhat contradicting it?

Thats why I said they should just call it a reboot OR simply put it post-Nemesis and you wouldn’t have this problem at all. I love TOS but it looks way too campy and dated today. The fact they say with a straight face they are trying to keep within canon of that shows is the entire problem. Why even try???

I think you lose more in calling it a reboot then you do in having it be an actual visual reboot but labelled a canon-contemporary.

I really think part of the JJ films’ issues was that once they stumbled a bit, it was far too easy for people to not care and turn away because it wasnt “real”.

I DO think Discovery could have avoided the whole debate had they chosen a different era, but I maintain post-nemesis wasnt the right fit. Enterprise B would have been because the updated visuals would have been far less stark than they are in the TOS era

One could argue that the creative team was getting worn out, but no one charged with making what became “Enterprise” was particularly jazzed about setting the show post-24th century. The argument was always, “What’s going to be really that different and exciting? Shinier sets?” I suspect Bryan Fuller had some ideas as he mulled over his anthology plans, but the reasoning behind making a show set around the TOS era is that it’s highly marketable. It ties into JJ Trek and TOS, that’s a better sell these days than saying someone is Jean-Luc Picard’s great-grandniece on the Enterprise G.

Yeah, the ships are bigger, and can fly all the way to Andromeda. Who cares? What matters are the people, and their connection to situations and events we care about.

Michael Hall,

Re: Yeah, the ships are bigger, and can fly all the way to Andromeda. Who cares?

Well, to be fair, the ships flying all the way to Andromeda groundwork was laid in the original series with the Kelvan modifications. And I’ve pondered whether NOMAD’s modifications ever approached or exceeded those…

I’d always assumed the Kelvans insisted on removing their modifications as a condition of releasing the ship, possibly their own version of the Prime Directive.

Re: Kelvans insisted on removing their modifications as a condition of releasing the ship

That wouldn’t have made any sense. The Enterprise had already exited the Milky Way. If the Kelvans insisted on removing their modifications when Kirk forced them to turn over control of the ship, they all would have been VOYAGEResque stranded in unknown unexplored space. Besides the Kelvans had not only modified the ship but themselves as well so the mods all had to be human manageable and comprehensible.

Maybe after they all got back to Federation space such a deal might have been brokered but the contamination would have already happened with Messrs. Scott and Spock having ample time to analyze and make at least some rudimentary intuitive leaps at the technological possibilities.

But thanks to future writers in future series we can imagine Section 31 took over any and all such research.

@Damian — what inconsistencies? So far I haven’t seen a thing that violates canon.

Maybe in the future there is so much peace that even a small skirmish sounds like a war! I’m sure ya’ll historians who dropped through the guardian of forever to set things right. Wow. With “fans” like these….

I won’t be watching it mostly because paying $10 a month for CBS All Access isn’t something I’m willing to do at this point. I get a lot more content for $10/month on NetFlix or Hulu than I will with All Access. If I could see CBS Network shows without delay, maybe I could see it as part of the cord cutting. But I’m not ready to do that yet…

Its actually $5.99. $9.99 is without commercials but I hear you.

Apple is now investing heavily in original content to try and stay in the OTT game. Its gaining momentum.

I totally understand the perspective of not being there yet for some people. I currently only have Netflix as an OTT (I have WWE Network but its a terrestrial channel in Canada, though it does cost me $12.

For other OTT’s, when I’ve been intrigued by one or two programming options, I’ve chosen to purchase the disc.

Its sort of amusing in some ways that the idea of Star Trek on a streaming service has resulted in quite a bit of pushback from fans. Maybe a bit of irony there.

When you look at Netflix and the break down of its revenue for streaming which is in the 90+% vs its original disc rental, as an industry trailblazer, we see whats coming. Disney, ESNP, Apple and others, the investment is showing us the new reality. The push is on for premium content via streaming.

Maybe, but I honestly still don’t get all the pushback and resentment. I understand that some fans on fixed or limited incomes honestly can’t spare the $5.99 a month, and that’s a real shame. I don’t make a huge amount of money by any means, but I’m pretty debt-free and consequently have a fair amount of discretionary income. But back in the day when I was much younger and poorer and getting Trek back in any form seemed like an impossible dream, I would have been ecstatic to be able to part with a few dollars a month to get more. That so many seem unwilling indicates to me that the fan base is still jaded, and I fear that doesn’t bode at all well for the future of this franchise.

Just sign up for one month 29 days out from the season finale, and then cancel. With inevitable free trial offers, you might even be able to pay nothing and binge it faster. If CBS can’t keep subscribers beyond how long it takes to watch DSC, then that’s a problem for them to solve, but the All-Access cost is not a viable complaint IMO. It costs a couple of Starbucks to subscribe and cancel.

I think they’re telegraphing they are making the show they want to make and don’t feel constrained by anything. Which means it will be heavy duty PC filled SJW bullshit non stop.

or, ya know, a war story.

Admins, can you PLEASE do something about the spamcrap from idiots like Greg Sirmon and others who ONLY come here to spread right-wing hatred? These are NOT Trek fans, NOT good people, and NOT the right kind of posts to allow here. You really need to start maintaining some standards here, or it’ll become a Fox News comments section instead of a STAR TREK site. For the love of Trek, PLEASE ban all these right-wing hate attacks!!!

I don’t see any right wing hatred PaulB. I see concerned Star Trek fans who see the “diversity” not as natural and organic like the original but agenda driven. There were no “hate-attacks” except form you injecting attitudes and opinions that aren’t present.

How about explaining what makes the diversity on this show any more or less “natural,” “organic,” or “agenda-driven” than anything that came before? Seriously, go ahead.

Jack D – Haha. You’re funny. Your ignorance (or willful denial) of the right-wing hatefulness that floods this forum is your own problem. I mean, I literally replied to a clear case of right-wing bigotry, yet you’re saying there’s none here. Yeah. Right. Whatever.

Don’t bother replying to me ever again. You’re on the list of right-wing trolls that I won’t ever waste time with again. Bye!

It’s very hard to defend people who attack diverse casting and PC and morality tales in Star Trek of all things.

Very sad to say that’s where we live now. But it’s still a minority of people and fandom.

What–just get off the bus from Charlottesville, fool?

Yeah I agree with you no doubt it will be an MSM SJW PC friendly appeal to the masses type of syfy show with the Star Trek brand slapped on it! At least it will not last long & get cancelled sooner or later so there is hope after all for the true Trek fans!

Notice how the dweebs who use lazy neologisms like “MSM” and “SJW” can’t even be bothered to spell or punctuate correctly, let alone know anything of Star Trek ‘a history or the beliefs of the people who made it? It literally never fails.

And who are you? New to this site, I suppose.

What on Earth do you think has been the bread and butter of every single Star Trek series since 1966? Or charitably, if we can’t call TOS exactly “PC,” since 1987?

The casting of Nichols and Takei was as peecee as it gets.

The series will be limited to CBSAA so any damage to the franchise should be minimal at best. ST Discovery be a fart that lingers too long in a couch cushion.

Not watching. Mostly because I don’t want to bother paying for the extra service required. But the material shown and the big F you that seems to be given from the creators and now the star of the show doesn’t make me want to pay for it at all.

How many people here have real life friends (not online keyboard wariors), workplace colleagues etc who they know for a fact who are going to pay out a subscription to watch this?

Was not watching anyway but now I will ensure I never ever watch or contribute a single dime to this show. Liked Isaacs as an actor but after his misguided, pretentious & arrogant comments it has ruined me ever watching anything in with him again. How can an actor be so out of touch & bite the hand which feeds him but I guess the direction of this show is designed to promote that type of selfish attitude so I hope it gets cancelled before the first season even completes its run!!

Your potential loss, whatever. For decades William Windom never made any bones about the fact that he considered Trek to be nothing but a silly TV sci-fi show that he did just for the money, and that he couldn’t care less about it or the fans who took it so seriously. Yet his portrayal of Commodore Matt Decker has been a gift to fandom for the past fifty years. Because in the end, you see, that’s what matters: the work.

Re:Windom’s Pride

If I recall from that time, wasn’t that more a factor of Windom’s pride in MY WORLD AND WELCOME TO IT? Or better stated as perhaps Thurber himself? He did touring Thurber shows as I recall.

His role in Night Gallery ‘s “They’re Tearing Down Tim Riley’s Bar,” too. He took a lot of pride in that.

(His attitude towards Trek may have softened towards the end, considering he reprised the role of Decker for an early episode of “New Voyages.” Or maybe he just liked sharing some screen time with BarBra Luna. Who wouldn’t?)

His comments kind of remind me of when Daniel Craig was first signed on as Bond. Craig was never great with the media and always managed to say some things which old-time fans found inflammatory.

He’s entitled to his opinion and I learned a long time ago that when it comes to actors it’s best to try to judge them by the quality of their work and ignore their personal views as much as possible because they will almost always end up offending or disappointing somebody.

Now that I’m in my 50s the success or failure of a TV show or movie (even one with the name Star Trek attached to it) doesn’t mean that much to me; I have bigger issues to deal with.

Tony D–

Remember in the ’70s when the fans would get all incensed when Roddenberry would talk about Paramount wanting to recast the roles of Kirk and Spock? Well, it happened in 2009 and it turns out I could have accepted it just fine, if it hadn’t been such a terrible movie otherwise.

Passing the half-century mark definitely changes your outlook on what’s important.

I do remember the hoopla around Xon replacing Spock and Decker replacing Kirk on Phase II. The funny part was that the news was so slow back then (I got most of my info from Starlog) that the issues were often resolved before I even knew they existed :)

Hitting the big 5-0 definitely changed my outlook on a lot of things. Nowadays if I see or read something I don’t particularly care for or agree with, I just shrug my shoulders and move on.

I like this guy.

I love how people will always quote out of context.

I won’t be watching. But, I also wish the show well. I applaud the diversity and the casting. I am a die hard Trek fan, but I honestly refuse to pay extra to a CBS streaming service JUST to watch. I’m not even going to pay just for a month to watch the show all at once. That’s the main reason. So, when Isaacs says he knows the die hard fans will watch….maybe so, but maybe not.

I’m also feeling a lot of apathy re the new show.

First, the look of the show is JJverse not prime timeline. Silly complaint, but one can update and still remain true. Second, the show is again revisiting the past rather than moving forward. Third, the “Spock’s sister” (my words) aspect. I’d believe this only one way….were she Sybok’s daughter that Sarek was raising.

Again, I have no hatred, only apathy were the show is concerned. I have no doubt it will be well acted, well written and well made.

But, sorry Mr. Isaacs, I’m a big fan of your’s too, but I won’t be signing in. Good luck, though. I mean that.

Why wouldn’t an adoption be legally viable to make Michael Spock’s sister? Forget whether you think it is a good idea or not. Why wouldn’t it be legal? an adopted family member is still family.

Yes, you’re right, but my comment wasn’t whether it was legal or night, but rather in line with canon. I find it believable to think a daughter of a brother we know Spock never mentioned (as stated in Trek V) would also have never been mentioned. However, I just dislike (my personal opinion only) the idea of shoehorning in a relative to Spock (via adoption or whatever other means) into the Trek universe. Again, only personal opinion here, and not meant in any legal sense of her being his sister or not.

It may never be all that believable, though possibly good writing could make it work. But, you know what? If it results in some interesting storytelling within the confines of this particular show (and some insights on what it would be like to be a human growing up on Vulcan), that takes precedence over canon for me every time.

I totally agree with this view.

I respectfully disagree, but I see your point.

Wow, my opinion of this guy just plummeted.

I’m gonna pretend I never read this or even heard about it. The last thing I need is the media stirring up controversy between DSC actors and ST fans, if that’s actually what happened. Looking forward to DSC and Isaacs. Shatner and Stewart still rock. And there we are.

Sounds like harmless banter to me. Pretty sure he’s just having a lark there.

Wow. I can’t believe people here are actually defending him and actually agreeing with what he said. Everyone involved with this show shows a clear lack of respect for what makes Star Trek so great in the first place, I’m sick of them thinking it needs to be reinvented, they’re trying to make Star Trek into what they think it should be like and not what it is actually like. Damn shame on you.

Better stick with your copy of “The Cage,” then, because Trek has been reinventing itself ever since.

Actually this is a brilliant marketing move and possibly even “staged’. It causes controversy and gets people talking! It certainly makes me curious to watch.

@ Scotty – I doubt it was ‘staged’, as it seems a strange move to deliberately alienate some of your core potential audience beforehand. No, I think he was just carelessly made some flippant comments which effectively gave some of this franchise’s audience the middle finger.

That’s fair enough, and I won’t hold it against him, but I certainly wouldn’t call it an inspired ‘marketing ploy’ of any sort. I reckon this particular STAR TREK ‘spin-off’ has enough divisive things going for it already, without adding more.

I’ll be downloading it, I’m not super excited, I don’t know why they had to call it Star Trek, if the old stuff wasn’t good enough just rebrand it something else…I’d still download it :)

If the NY Daily News ran an article stating that water is wet, I’d go turn on the faucet just to make sure. A total rag.

Not a problem, Jason. I will, in fact, NOT be watching with the exception of the pilot. I have enough bills to pay for entertainment. I’m not subscribing to another & paying an additional $6 to $7 a month just to watch one show. That was a stupid move on the part of CBS. The show should have been on Netflix here in the States as well (I already pay them nearly $20 a month for streaming & DVD service).

Maybe a little less time spent with the TV overall would be a good idea.

He’s an actor. It’s a job. As long as he does a good job, who cares.

I didn’t know that part of actor’s job is to antagonize their potential viewers.

I think you understand that’s not what she was saying.

Star Trek “Fans” are some of the biggest snowflakes out there. They act like they’re entitled to Star Trek ONE way and then get bent when someone says something that is critical against them. They need to get a life and move on.

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What Does ‘For the Fans’ Even Mean?

I am a fan.

I don’t normally write these pieces in the first person, because I should be the least interesting part of anything I write about, but I feel like it’s important to acknowledge that up front. I can write ( and have written ) millions of words about how much I love Star Trek . I can talk ( and have talked ) for hours about my relationship to Star Wars . I could compose (and have published ) books on The X-Files . All of this is to say that I am a fan. And few words scare me as profoundly as “for the fans.”

Fans have always been a part of mass media franchises. David Gerrold was a fan of the first season of Star Trek who went on to write maybe the single best episode of the following season . Many early Star Trek novels were written by ascended fans like Vonda N. McIntyre or Melinda Snodgrass . The writing staffs of later Star Trek spin-offs were populated by ascended fans like Ira Steven Behr , Ronald D. Moore , René Echevarria, and Naren Shankar .

For all that certain commentators throw around “fan fiction” as a pejorative term, virtually every major long-running franchise is essentially corporate-sanctioned fan fiction at this point, regardless of quality. There’s not necessarily anything wrong with that. Historically, these sorts of ascended fan voices have added and enriched the properties for which they were writing, exploring nooks and crannies in the established mythology that helped to flesh out the world.

The Enterprise’s navigation officer, Sulu (George Takei), didn’t get a first name until McIntyre thought to give him one in the novel The Entropy Effect . It would subsequently be ported over to canon . Many of the fans writing Star Trek novels like Snodgrass gravitated towards the character of Uhura (Nichelle Nichols), because she had been “under-utilized” on the show itself. Moore’s first script for Star Trek: The Next Generation was essentially a deconstruction of the classic “red shirt” trope .

More generally, this fan-creator culture carved out space for fans who hadn’t previously seen themselves reflected in the media itself. Gerrold is a gay man who tried desperately to write the franchise’s first episode to feature two gay characters . Fan spaces frequently made room for the voices of women, people of color, and queer people that made the franchise bigger rather than smaller. They often expanded the scope of what Star Trek or Star Wars or Doctor Who could be.

All of this is to illustrate that fans can help these franchises grow and develop in interesting ways, if they’re willing to really think about the source material. Most of the writing staff of Star Trek: Deep Space Nine were huge Star Trek fans who routinely tried to sneak fun references into the show . However, they were also working on a show that radically and dramatically redefined what Star Trek could be .

And yet there’s something chilling about the idea of a piece of mass media existing “for the fans.” The language pops up frequently in press interviews. Director Jason Reitman promised that Ghostbusters: Afterlife would “hand the movie back to the fans.” Editor Maryann Brandon boasted of The Rise of Skywalker , “Look, sure, it’s fan service.” Justice League composer Danny Elfman recalls Joss Whedon telling him to recycle music cues from older films because “fans love this kind of stuff.”

There are essentially three interlinked problems with this appeal that mass media should be “for the fans.” The first and most obvious is that it feels like obvious pandering. If something is good, it should be able to argue for itself on its own merits instead of appealing directly to the fans. After all, nobody tuned into the first episode of Star Trek on NBC because they were already Star Trek fans. These franchises won audiences over by telling compelling stories.

The second problem is one of tribalism. As mass media ownership has become increasingly consolidated (and perhaps as discourse has become increasingly polarized ) the idea of “fandom” has become one of identity. A criticism of a piece of intellectual property (or even the corporate owner of a piece of intellectual property ) is seen as a personal affront. Something like Martin Scorsese’s criticism of the current economic climate for filmmakers becomes a weird rallying cry.

Most fans are great. Most fans go about their daily lives like normal people who, to quote two of our greatest pop culture philosophers, just like to be excellent to each other . However, there is also a consistent pattern of behavior among the more vocal modern fans that is unsettling to say the least. Fandom becomes an identity, so these extreme and belligerent voices target critics that don’t agree with them , fandoms of rival properties , and even actors who appear in movies they dislike .

As somebody who comments regularly on pop culture, I can tell you that this attitude is not unique to one fandom. It doesn’t matter how big or how small a property is; it doesn’t matter whether it’s critically loved or critically reviled; it doesn’t matter if it makes a billion dollars or crashes on opening Friday. The properties I like suffer from this, as do the ones I hate. All fandoms have a vocal minority who are just loud enough to ruin the fun for everybody else who is just trying to have a good time.

Making movies “for the fans” implies a sense of ownership that furthers this tribalism. The phrase suggests that these movies are intended for a certain subset of the audience to fight over, to defend, to protect. There is an unspoken “not for everyone” appended to the statement. It also implies that, given this particular iteration of the property is “for the fans,” other versions were not and that anybody who happened to enjoy those installments is “not a real fan” and so is “the enemy.”

This perhaps gets at the third and most significant problem with pitching media as something primarily “for the fans.” It is inherently regressive . Fans are fans based on things that already exist and are already part of the overall property. Servicing fans prioritizes attempts to emulate what fans already love, trying to recreate a high that is often filtered through the lens of childhood nostalgia. It’s an attempt to photocopy the Mona Lisa and call it a masterpiece.

If somebody wants to see the Mona Lisa , perhaps they should just go and see the Mona Lisa . If somebody wants a version of Star Trek that is exactly like the third through sixth seasons of Star Trek: The Next Generation , perhaps the best thing to do is to rewatch the third through sixth season of Star Trek: The Next Generation . At their best, these sorts of “for the fans” projects exist in a weird uncanny valley, like watching an exotic animal put on display in a petting zoo.

The point of the petting zoo isn’t to satisfy the animals. If fans want more Tim Burton and Michael Keaton Batman , why not give Burton $200M and the creative freedom that he enjoyed on Batman and Batman Returns ? If people are so eager to see the return of Sam Raimi and Tobey Maguire’s Spider-Man , why not write Raimi a check and get out of his way? Hell, if fans want to see Marc Webb and Andrew Garfield’s Amazing Spider-Man “redeemed,” why not give them that chance?

The truth is perhaps that studios understand that “for the fans” is code for wanting a reminder of the thing, not the thing itself. Letting Burton make another Batman movie might force fans to acknowledge that his films were bold and ambitious departures from what had come before. Letting Webb make another Amazing Spider-Man movie runs the risk of reminding fans that maybe they didn’t actually care for the reality of the previous two movies so much as the nostalgic reassurance that they have ownership of it.

Fans can be honest about the aesthetic conservatism of fandom. There are few bigger Star Trek fans than the writers of Deep Space Nine , and they poured their hearts and souls into making the best version of Star Trek that they could. However, the show was not popular at the time among hardcore Star Trek fans. “I just thought they were very conservative; they want the same thing,” Behr has explained . “They don’t want new; they want the same old shit that makes them feel good.”

The Next Generation faced similar problems. Moore recalls , “You would go to conventions and there would be bumper stickers and T-shirts that basically said, ‘I’m a real Trekker. Forget the bald guy.’” Actor Marina Sirtis remembers , “Fans hated the fact that we were on.” However, history has been kind to both The Next Generation and Deep Space Nine . Although neither show was “for the fans,” the fandom eventually (sometimes decades later ) expanded to include them.

Incidentally, I am a fan of both The Next Generation and Deep Space Nine . I was also a fan on original airing. I am a fan of them because they are great pieces of television. I don’t need more media to tell me that I am special or important because I happen to like a particular thing. I have enough interest outside myself to be curious about what other people have to say with and about the things that I love. Maybe I’ll like it; maybe I won’t. Either way, I’ll still always have my Next Generation Blu-rays and Deep Space Nine DVDs.

The things that we love need to be able to grow and change, to evolve and develop. They can’t (and shouldn’t) stay stagnant, trying to offer unconvincing simulacra derived from some vague collective memory. Maybe the best thing “for the fans” would be for us all to be a little more open-minded.

This Weird Star Trek: The Original Series Episode is Actually its Most Underrated

Star Trek: The Original Series could get very strange, especially in Season 3. But one weird episode turns that into an essential story about Spock.

• Star Trek: The Original Series is known for its weird and over-the-top episodes, with concepts that pushed the boundaries of sci-fi television.
• "All Our Yesterdays" stands out as a highly underrated episode with a strong story and character development, despite its odd trappings.
• The episode showcases fan power with a heartfelt storyline, an innovative script from a fan-turned-writer, and new depths to Spock's character.

Even as a product of its time, Star Trek: The Original Series can be a very weird show. The show's creative forces were focused solely on delivering an hour of entertaining television each week, and without an established canon, things could get pretty over-the-top. Each episode was self-contained and focused on an entirely new planet or situation, which meant that zany concepts could actually reach the screen without any long-term ramifications. If it didn't work, the show simply zipped on to the next planet.

Over time, many of them have become beloved parts of Star Trek's legacy, and some of them are far better than their odd visuals or storylines suggest. Some of them even rank among the series' high points, including one that arrived just when The Original Series was wrapping up. Season 3, Episode 23, "All Our Yesterdays" evinces many of the qualities that mark Star Trek at its weirdest . Yet, not only does it work surprisingly well, it remains one of the most underrated episodes in the entire franchise. That includes a number of off-screen factors that demonstrate why Star Trek was such a special show, even as it appeared to be closing out its run.

"All Our Yesterdays" Arrives at the End of The Original Series

Star trek: what's the story behind every enterprise design.

The Original Series held no special status among network executives when it first aired, and Star Trek creator Gene Roddenberry famously had to fight just to get it greenlit. Ratings steadily declined between the first and the second season, which NBC exacerbated by moving the show from a solid Tuesday-night time slot to Friday nights. This was largely considered the kiss of death at the time, since people tended to go out rather than stay home and watch TV. It was expensive to produce as well, and the network looked to cancel the show at the end of Season 2. Star Trek fans responded with a massive letter-writing campaign that convinced NBC to green-light a third and final season.

Among fans, Season 3 is largely considered a step-down in quality compared to the first two seasons. Season 3 infamously featured bad episodes like "Spock's Brain" and "Plato's Stepchildren," as well as badly dated products of the 1960s such as "The Way to Eden." Despite that, it still found its share of memorable episodes, such as "The Tholian Web" and "The Enterprise Incident." Most of them feature a go-for-broke quality that resulted in some of the franchise's most memorably out-there moments. One example includes "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield," which featured two characters with faces literally split between black and white. Another example is "The Savage Curtain," which opens with Abraham Lincoln floating in space in front of the Enterprise.

"All Our Yesterdays" is another example of weird content that includes Kirk fighting a 17th-century fop with a rapier and Spock falling in love with a "cavewoman" in furry boots. It was also the second-to-last episode to air, behind the justly maligned "Turnabout Intruder" which appeared to close the series out for good. It's also one of the series' strongest episodes in terms of character development, particularly when it comes to Spock's endless bickering with Dr. McCoy . Rather than coming out of nowhere as the likes of "The Way to Eden" did, it presents a compelling sci-fi concept to keep it all centered.

"All Our Yesterdays" Delivers a Strong Story with Weird Trappings

'we broke barriers': star trek: discovery star celebrates show's diversity.

"All Our Yesterdays" focuses on a formerly occupied planet, now empty, whose sun is about to go nova. The inhabitants lacked space travel despite numerous technical advancements. Kirk, Spock and McCoy beam down to what appears to be a library, only to learn the truth of the population's vanishing act: they escaped the imminent destruction by journeying back in time to live out their lives in their planet's past. The trio inadvertently pass through the time portal before realizing the truth, which leaves Kirk trapped in the planet's version of Cromwell's England. Spock and McCoy are similarly trapped 5,000 years earlier in the planet's ice age.

The set-up is designed to cut corners in the effects department, which Star Trek often did by raiding existing props and costumes for their setting. Hence, Kirk ends up literally crossing swords with men in feathered hats and pantaloons, while his companions spend the bulk of their adventure in a cave that looks suspiciously similar to every other cave that appeared in the series. It also features the seemingly superfluous collection of duplicate librarians, as well as "doorways" into the past largely achieved by chintzy double-exposure. Kirk has to escape charges of witchcraft, while Spock and McCoy meet an exiled woman named Zarabeth -- a political dissident on the wrong side of a long-dead tyrant -- whom Spock actively falls in love with .

It's a concept that provides a suitable dilemma for the protagonists to work their way out of, and a novel way to escape impending doom. However, it delivers a brilliant piece of development for both Spock and McCoy. Their squabbling is a beloved trope of The Original Series , with Bones' fiery passions repeatedly clashing with Spock's emotionless logic. Here, Spock begins to revert to the wild passionate status that Vulcans evinced in their early history, leading him to eat meat, lust after Zarabeth, and threaten McCoy with active violence. Bones gets through to him in time for Kirk to effect a rescue, after a tearful good-bye to Zarabeth.

"All Our Yesterdays" Is a Testament to Star Trek's Fan Power

'i'm ready': star trek: strange new worlds actor teases captain kirk spinoff.

Actor Leonard Nimoy plays Spock's descent beautifully, creating a template that his successor Ethan Peck has used to similar effect in Star Trek: Strange New Worlds . He and DeForest Kelley set a new standard for their characters' rivalry, this time with Spock playing the passionate firebrand and McCoy the pragmatic realist. Zarabeth suffers from a certain passivity typical of depictions of women in the media at the time, but actor Mariette Hartley conveys both her existential loneliness and quickly blossoming love for Spock in achingly sympathetic terms. Her reluctant goodbye at Spock's departure is legitimately heartbreaking.

The most memorable aspect of "All Our Yesterdays" comes from behind the scenes . Screenwriter Jean Lisette Aroeste was not a professional writer, just a literate fan who worked as a librarian at UCLA. She submitted an unsolicited script that was picked up (Season 3, Episode 5, "Is There in Truth No Beauty?") and followed it up with this one. It made Aroeste one of four writers with no previous screenwriting experience to have scripts produced for the show. Both of her episodes carry a freshness and exuberance that much of the rest of Season 3 lacks. It's a unique synergy between audience and series, heralding Star Trek's rebirth in the 1970s thanks to the passion of the fans. Here, it results in a strong, heartfelt episode that ends the series on a far stronger note than the moribund "Turnabout Intruder."

Most importantly, it shows a side to one of the franchise's most beloved characters that hadn't been seen before, as Spock grapples with his loss of logic while falling deeply in love at the same time. It's a big change for obvious reasons, and because the show was perceived to be on its way out, no one seemed worried about the possibility of the performance running against character. Nimoy artfully balanced it against Spock's well-established traits to reveal depths that The Original Series hadn't yet explored. With McCoy playing a far better foil than he ever has, and a strong plot hook to hold the action together, "All Our Yesterdays" is the farewell the show deserved, as well as helping to elevate a dodgy third season into something worthy of rememberance. It may be a weird little episode, but it also represents Star Trek at its very best.

Star Trek: The Original Series

In the 23rd Century, Captain James T. Kirk and the crew of the U.S.S. Enterprise explore the galaxy and defend the United Federation of Planets.

Why Star Trek: The Next Generation's Riker Sits Down So Specifically, According To Jonathan Frakes

Star Trek: The Next Generation is one of the most beloved shows of the Star Trek franchise, thanks in no small part to the fantastic ensemble cast it featured over the years. These people poured so much into their characters, and as the epsiodes went on, added little quirks that made these characters on screen seem like actual people you'd see on the street.

With that being said, Riker's quirk of how he sat in chairs may have made some fans think he's secretly an android. For those that don't remember, check out this compilation of Riker's technique for sitting in a chair.

No matter the chair, or section of the ship, Riker would often swing a leg over the top and then sit down. It's an action similar to what one would do when riding a horse, but far from the way the average person plops down in a chair.

So then, why did Riker do it? Jonathan Frakes discussed the sitting tactic during a Q&A of Star Trek: First Contact with IGN , and also explained how it pertained to his character.

That started in "Ten Forward" because the backs of the chairs were so low, it was easy. And then I thought, ‘This is really a hotdog, asshole thing to do. Nobody’s going to let me do this.’ And then nobody stopped me! It’s such a cocky, unattractive, kind of bad cowboy move.

Jonathan Frakes did it once, and when no one yelled "cut" or told him he was being an idiot, proceeded to make that a part of Riker's personality on Star Trek: The Next Generation . It was a stunt that may have been harder for other actors to pull off consistently, but Frakes didn't seem to struggle too much with his 6'3 frame.

Riker's weird chair sitting deal isn't a thing most casual Star Trek: The Next Generation fans will immediately notice, mostly because there's a whole lot going on, like great stories, aliens, and Patrick Stewart acting his ass off . Those who browse the internet looking for stuff on the show will find out soon enough, though, thanks to the YouTube video above, which Jonathan Frakes gave a shout out to during the Q&A.

Whoever did the YouTube compilation of Riker sits down, it went viral and was even more embarrassing, and made me strangely even more proud.

Jonathan Frakes has been in the Star Trek news cycle a lot as of late , thanks in large part to his two-episode cameo in Season 1 of Star Trek: Picard . Frakes is also slated to direct upcoming episodes of Star Trek: Discovery Season 3, though it is unknown if he tries to sit in director's chairs the same way he sits on the Enterprise .

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Mick Joest is a Content Producer for CinemaBlend with his hand in an eclectic mix of television goodness. Star Trek is his main jam, but he also regularly reports on happenings in the world of Star Trek, WWE, Doctor Who, 90 Day Fiancé, Quantum Leap, and Big Brother. He graduated from the University of Southern Indiana with a degree in Journalism and a minor in Radio and Television. He's great at hosting panels and appearing on podcasts if given the chance as well.

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'Star Trek: Discovery' Has Fans Riled Up For One Specific Reason

Fans are defending 'Star Trek: Discovery' and are upset for a specific reason.

When 'Star Trek: Discovery' first came out, viewers flooded in from all genres and eras and generations. Nothing can bring people together like a good inter-generational sci-fi drama, right? Even if some actors turned down roles in the franchise , plenty of pop culture heroes have emerged from it.

But, of course, 'Discovery' has divided viewers in one important way.

Why Are Fans Upset About 'Star Trek: Discovery'?

This season of 'Star Trek: Discovery' holds plenty of intrigue for fans. After the showrunner revealed some BTS secrets , there was even more to get excited about. But fans are also unhappy about one aspect of the show.

RELATED: How Much Did Chris Hemsworth Get Paid For 'Star Trek'?

Redditors agreed that there are a few genuine criticisms of 'Discovery,' in regard to the plot and pacing. The thing is, there's a significant complaint that some viewers have that true fans feel is not justified at all. And it has to do with the show's overall themes and, well, its legacy.

'Star Trek: Discovery' Critics Have Spoken

Some say 'Star Trek Discovery' is "too woke," pointed out one fan on Reddit . And that's the number one complaint that fans seem to hear when they talk about how great the reboot is.

Many people say that 'Discovery' is trying too hard to be progressive, explained one riled-up Redditor. The issue is that 'Star Trek' has  always been "woke" -- so this is nothing new, and it's definitely nothing to criticize 'Discovery' over.

Fans Disagree That 'Star Trek: Discovery' Is 'Too Woke'

The mega-fan of the franchise said it perfectly: "Did you sleep during all the episodes where Star Trek explored the very edges of religion, race, gender, sexuality, government, and capitalism as we understood them at the time?"

"Is the thesis of the entire franchise not 'Life and civilization exist in an infinite number of configurations and each of them are valid and worthy of understanding'?"

What Fans Think Of 'Star Trek: Discovery'

With all the emphasis on defending the series, this Redditor can also admit that there are plenty of reasons to criticize the show. For one thing, the writing is hailed as being... not so great.

But it's frustrating to hear people who loved the original series complain about today's 'modern' spin. Though to be fair, many commenters on Reddit point out that it's partly the poor writing/execution of the wokeness versus the wokeness itself.

After all, Trekkies everywhere can agree that the show's legacy is blatant open-minded, inclusiveness. It's a frustrating point to have to argue, say fans, and "the politics in 'Star Trek' have never been subtle."

Some viewers apparently just weren't paying attention -- or were distracted by the poorly-constructed plot points.

NEXT: 'Pulp Fiction In Space' - Are We Ever Going To See Quentin Tarantino's Star Trek Movie?

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Star Trek and Society’s Ridicule of its Early Fans

Star trek fans in mainstream culture.

Every year the entertainment world shifts its attention to sunny California for San Diego Comic-Con International. All sorts of people attend the event, from professional cosplayers to young children on a family vacation. On top of that, several high profile celebrities lead fans to wait hours on end in lines for Hall H that make the waits for Disney World attractions laughable. Top tier companies like Marvel and DC descend upon the San Diego Convention Center to take advantage of the abundance of consumers on site. Various media outlets cover the event, such as The New York Times and Entertainment Weekly , not to mention the countless vlogs and reactions from prominent YouTube channels. The event has become so popular that the 130,000 tickets for the 2014 convention were sold out within minutes of becoming available (Lieu).

While fan conventions like San Diego Comic-Con International carry a festival-like atmosphere celebrating fandoms across all genres, society was not always so accepting of this kind of fan culture. One only needs to look at what the fans of Star Trek have endured over the years to understand that fans used to be dismissed as “others.” This concept is hard to believe in the year 2016 as Star Trek celebrates its 50th anniversary. However, Star Trek fans faced constant ridicule when the series was first released to the point where they felt unwelcome in mainstream culture. Anti-fans spread the message that being classified as a Star Trek fan was undesirable, so people should avoid expressing any knowledge or appreciation of the show so as not to be labeled as outcasts. Though materials ridiculing Star Trek fans can be uncovered in a variety of media, this article will focus specifically on portrayals of Star Trek fans in television.

Star Trek Fans Versus Literary Science Fiction Fans

Before the birth of television, science fiction found its home in magazines and books. This landscape began to change in the 1960s, especially with the first screening of Star Trek for fans at Worldcon in 1966. Once Star Trek landed on television, it “struggled for ratings the entire time it was on the air, and perhaps this pushed its fans to become more vocal and participatory” (Copa). As a result, other science fiction fans took notice, and “many traditional fans, whose culture continued to be centered around professional science fiction magazines, dismissed Star Trek as science fiction for nonreaders” (Copa).

Traditional literary science fiction fans wanted to separate themselves from Star Trek fans so much that they unofficially banned them from science fiction conventions. In response, “ Star Trek fans, feeling unwelcome at science fiction conventions, would start holding their own conventions. The first of these was held in New York in 1972″ (Copa). This antagonism of Star Trek fans by literary science fiction traditionalists did not stop after this branching off, however. For example, literary science fiction fans created the “G.A.L.” (“Get a Life”) club for Star Trek fans and circulated fliers to join the club at science fiction conventions (Jenkins).

One might ask what the motives of these literary science fiction traditionalists were in ridiculing Star Trek fans. There were many reasons literary science fiction fans felt the need to distance themselves from Star Trek fans. People think fans “overvalue or overestimate the importance of their object of fandom” (Stanfill). People also envision fans as “extreme in their obsession with acquiring as much information about the object of fandom as possible. This intemperance and its associated lack of control sometimes takes a more sinister form, constructing fans as confused about the distinctions between fantasy and reality, which leads to connotations of insanity and lack of behavioral and affective boundaries” (Stanfill). Furthermore, “stereotypes about fans condemn who they are as people instead of what they do” (Stanfill). Because fans lack real relationships, they must create imaginary ones with the characters from their show. This paints a picture of immaturity and builds on the confusion between fantasy and reality. Finally, “fandom is often devalued as feminized — comprised of either insufficiently masculine men or hysterical women” (Stanfill).

Literary science fiction traditionalists wanted to avoid being characterized with these traits, so they took measures to ridicule and therefore distinguish themselves from people like Star Trek fans. In terms of visual signifiers, Star Trek fans are commonly identified as overweight and wearing large glasses and Vulcan ears, not to mention the colored shirts as seen on the show (Jenkins). One journalist even went as far as to describe Star Trek fans as “smelling of assembly-line junk food, hugely consumed; the look is of people who consume it, habitually and at length; overfed and undernourished, eruptive of skin and flaccid of form, from the merely soft to the grotesquely obese” (Hale). Anti-fans also regularly resort to name-calling, degrading Star Trek fans using words such as “gay” or “nerds.” All of these techniques serve to ridicule Star Trek fans and make them seem unappealing to other science fiction fans.

Television’s “Othering” of Star Trek Fans

One of the most popular examples of ridiculing Star Trek fans on television comes from William Shatner’s 1986 Saturday Night Live “Get a Life!” sketch . All of the common visual tropes of Star Trek fans are on full display, from the Vulcan ears to the glasses and colored shirts. The sketch propagates some of the familiar messages about Star Trek fans. They are portrayed as “brainless consumers who will buy anything associated with the program or its cast,” they “devote their lives to the cultivation of worthless knowledge,” they “place inappropriate importance on devalued cultural material,” they “are social misfits who have become so obsessed with the show that it forecloses other types of social experience,” they “are feminized and/or desexualized through their intimate engagement with mass culture,” they “are infantile, emotionally and intellectually immature,” and they “are unable to separate fiction from reality” (Jenkins). In the end, William Shatner, the actor who played Captain Kirk, becomes so exasperated from having to answer questions like confirming the combination used for a safe in a particular episode that he demands that the Star Trek fans at the convention “get a life!”

A similar portrayal of Star Trek fans can be seen in season seven episode eleven of Family Guy , “Not All Dogs Go to Heaven.” Two Star Trek fans bicker at a Star Trek convention over the specifics of plot points. Once again, the two fans appear to be middle-aged men, overweight, and wear glasses and the colored Star Trek shirts. They are even called “nerds” by two of the actors from Star Trek , who then proceed to beat up the two fans.

In “Black Friday,” the seventh episode of the seventeenth season of South Park , Star Trek is parodied. The Star Trek fans are identifiable by their clothing and Vulcan ears, and they are characterized as “dorks.” Their sexuality even gets called into question as one of the characters says “they’re so gay.”

This stereotype dealing with the sexuality of Star Trek fans also appears in a clip from The Cleveland Show . In the clip, one of the characters complains that the decision he is facing is “harder than identifying a rapist at a Star Trek convention.” The scene then cuts away to two police officers interviewing a female rape victim. One of the officers asks the woman if she can describe the assailant. The woman says, “He was a white male, thirty-five to forty-five years old, glasses, bad skin, about fifty pounds overweight, smelled like Cheetos, and was carrying a poster with a Sharpie pen.” The shot expands to show a mass of Star Trek fans. The other officer declares that he knows what to do, and proceeds to ask who in the group is not a virgin. Only one hand is raised, and that person is placed under arrest.

Returning to the G.A.L. flyer referenced earlier, one can see a few of the Star Trek fan stereotypes that have been discussed. The flyer boasts “monthly laundry excursions,” learning how to speak Klingon, and memorizing every detail of the Starship Enterprise. This reinforces the perception of Star Trek fans compiling useless information and appearing unkempt.

Mainstream culture’s acceptance of the Star Trek fandom has come a long way since Star Trek: The Original Series aired in 1966. One can argue that Star Trek really became a mainstream hit with the premiere of Star Trek: The Next Generation in September 1987. The two-hour pilot for The Next Generation , “Encounter at Farpoint,” attracted the attention of 27 million viewers (Vary). By early October 1987, more than 50 of the Big Three network affiliates preempted their own shows to broadcast “Encounter at Farpoint” (Harmetz). Viewers were not the only ones excited to board the Enterprise for a new adventure every episode. The Next Generation earned high critical praise as well. The show won 18 Emmy Awards, five Saturn Awards, two Hugo Awards, and the Peabody Award for excellence in television programming. In addition, it spawned three spin-off shows ( Star Trek: Voyager , Star Trek: Deep Space Nine , and Star Trek: Enterprise ) thanks to its popularity and viewership.

In more recent years, J.J. Abrams has successfully rebooted the franchise, directing 2009’s Star Trek and 2013’s Star Trek Into Darkness and producing the latest release, Star Trek Beyond . Amid critical praise for Beyond , Abrams announced plans for a fourth film (Chitwood). If these new films are not enough for the Star Trek fandom, back in November 2015 CBS announced that Bryan Fuller and Alex Kurtzman were creating a new Star Trek television series called Star Trek: Discovery , set to premiere in January 2017.

Rather than being ridiculed, the Star Trek fandom is now celebrated in mainstream popular culture. Star Trek fans no longer have to isolate themselves at their own conventions. Instead, they can take center stage at the world’s biggest convention in San Diego. With a new film and television series on the horizon, Star Trek fans can confidently go boldly into the future. In short, it is a great time to be a Star Trek fan.

Works Cited

[1] Lieu, Lynn. “Comic-Con 2014: A feast for art and film fans.” The Desert Sun 21 July 2014. Web. 21 Sept. 2014.

[2] Copa, Francesca. “A Brief History of Media Fandom.” Fan Fiction and Fan Communities in the Age of the Internet . Jefferson, NC: McFarland & Company, Inc., 2006. Print.

[3] Jenkins, Henry. “‘Get a Life!’: Fans, Poachers, Nomads.” Textual Poachers: Television Fans and Participatory Culture . New York: Routledge, 1992. Print.

[4] Stanfill, Mel. “‘They’re Losers, but I Know Better’: Intra-Fandom Stereotyping and the Normalization of the Fan Subject.” Critical Studies in Media Communication 30.2 (2013). Print.

[5] Hale, Barrie. “Believing in Captain Kirk.” The Calgary Herald 26 April 1975: p. 10. Print.

[6] Vary, Adam B. “‘Star Trek: TNG’: An oral history.” Entertainment Weekly 24 September 2007. http://www.ew.com/article/2007/09/25/star-trek-tng-oral-history.

[7] Harmetz, Aljean. “Syndicated ‘Star Trek’ Puts Dent in Networks.” The New York Times 4 October 1987. http://www.nytimes.com/1987/10/04/arts/syndicated-star-trek-puts-dent-in-networks.html.

[8] Chitwood, Adam. “Is Chris Hemsworth Returning for ‘Star Trek 4’? J.J. Abrams Teases Next Sequel.” Collider.com 15 July 2016. http://collider.com/star-trek-4-chris-hemsworth-jj-abrams/.

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58 Comments

I’m not a Star Trek fan – not that there’s anything wrong with that – so I was unaware of the stereotype. Thank you for this enlightening article.

Thanks you! I’m glad I could shed some light on the history and portrayal of the fandom.

Here’s some good news for you: I mentioned your article today to a group of teenagers and they said, “No, you must be thinking of Star Wars fans.” So, not such good news for Star Wars fans if that attitude is widespread.

As a fellow Trekkie, I have to say “Bravo.” Thanks for revealing the “struggle” to those that may not be aware.

My pleasure! I really enjoyed writing this. Glad you liked it!

The backlash after Shatner’s SNL appearance was unbelievable! In the end we had the last laugh. Trek is mainstream now : )

You’ve got that right! Thank you for the comment.

I loved the twilight zone and The Outer limits, and every black & white late night horror movie that I could sneak out of bed to watch, but there always seemed to be something missing, these things were just “Not quite right” & then came “Lost in Space” this new genre was Science Fiction & I was Hooked,then when I was in primary school, I was about 10 There was a “New” show coming to TV in Australia, I did not care that it was a Re-Run, I had never seen the first run, Star Trek emblazoned our TV screen at 6;30 on Sunday Nights, it had edged out Disney World, & I was enthralled, the Original Series was shown over & over again going to later & later time slots until it disappeared.

Great stuff. I love The Twilight Zone too. Thanks for sharing!

I discovered “Star Trek” shortly after my family moved to Canada from Taiwan. Watching helped my English improve. The show was truly radical for its time. It was the first show to present a strong, and intelligent black female as a main character. It was also the first show to present a positive Asian lead character.

I first saw star trek in black and white when color came then things changed then came the next generation it got better from there both Gene and Leonard will be missed

That’s awesome that you used Star Trek to help you with your English. You’re right. Star Trek was indeed radical for its time. Thanks for sharing!

I still prefer Babylon 5.

It was Star Trek that was a key development moment for me. I decided to “out” myself as a Trekkie and SF fan with the view that people could like it or lump it. I know people have a lot tougher things to come out about, but this was a pivitol moment for me.

I was in my 30s before I was comfortable telling people I was a Trekkie. I think a lot of us were teased for years by the few that did know.

Spock Lives!

I am a PhD student in Folklore at a University. Last semester I had the opportunity to teach an undergraduate class on “FL and Star Trek” and bring a group of 13 students to a sci-fi convention. I found Star Trek to be an excellent way to teach basic methodological and theoretical principles in culture and ethnography.

That sounds like such an interesting class. Cons are a great place for learning about culture in a fun, lively environment.

Great piece on the Star Trek cultural phenomenon.

Thank you so much! Glad you enjoyed it!

I look forward to attending my first convention this year.

They are loads of fun. Hope you enjoy it!

Science fiction fandom is a hugely varied phenomenon, from MIT Star Trek fans to the Gaylaxian pressure group, from academics to pupeteers and collectors.

Indeed, it is! Thanks for the comment!

In the 70s my dad made me watch star trek when his work patterns allowed us time together and in the 90’s/00s I sat and watched them with my son.

That’s so cool that it came full circle! I’m glad Star Trek gave you some great memories with your family.

My earliest tv memory (maybe 7 or 8) is rushing home to watch Star Trek on Thursday late afternoons. It must have been a re-run even then – and my first event tv.

I still have memories of rushing home from school to catch my television shows too. Thanks for the comment!

Star Trek was all about what i ever believed in from a moral point of view. A multicultural crew, including aliens like Spock, where religion long gone and liberal values and fairness reigned supreme. But the Nazi US supreme rich would have nothing to do with it; for them just war and more war, that’s where the mega big profits are to be made.

Thank you for an interesting and educational piece.

Thank you for your kind comment! I’m glad you found it informative.

Quite an interesting piece! Like any culture, the most extreme behaviors typically get the most attention.

You’ve got that right. Thanks for your comment!

The characterization of Science Fiction afficianados as Star Trek nerds is a pitiable travesty. Much of the most interesting,imaginative and, dare I say it, prescient fiction of the last 50 years has been Science Fiction.

“Afficianados”?

If only the America of today could follow the values of Star Trek, this very American legendary series…

I’m a fan from the 60’s and it has been my pasttime since then , but the people I knew are long gone . Having been in the online community , it has surprised me the number of young people involved , currently.

Star Trek was a secular guide to ethics and morality in an era when the western world was experimenting with outrageously libertine culture. It was more than a fictional universe. There are many people who I have met who learned their values from this TV series, in the absence of any other institutional (eg church) guidance.

I loved Star Trek 45 years ago as a kid, but it still seems progressively current as the show never shied away from confronting issues deemed less than humane. And, surprised that the comic book guy in the Simpsons was not mentioned as he has had many cameos that did not flatter Star Trek fans.

I am hoping future work on fandom continues to illuminate the true nature of this vast, global culture.

Agreed. I know certain colleges now have courses on fandom. It’s a fascinating subject that you can study and explore in a variety of disciplines.

I love the original Star Trek cast and only until recently refused to like the newer films. However I have to say I enjoyed the latest Star Trek Beyond. You could tell that the cast enjoyed the roles they were playing and it brought back the nostalgic qualities that I loved with the original show while bringing in all the action and excitement of modern filmmaking.

I was doubtful of Star Trek Beyond when I first saw the trailer, but it really surprised me. I felt like the cast really stepped up their game for this installment.

I’ve recently gotten into the original series (after simply being just a fan of the movies) and I think Star Trek is going to be my favourite for a long time, one that I’ll keep coming back to. I was unaware of how much ridicule fans of its early years went through, but then again elitism on fandoms always exist. At least the degrading connotation of being a nerd has decreased nowadays, and being a fan of fictional media is very much accepted.

My family and I have been Star Trek nerds for years now, so encounter with the stereotypes of fans was inevitable (though I never encountered anything quite as hostile as you’ve chronicled here). Thanks for such a great analysis of nerd culture!

Thanks for your kind comment, Allie!

Great article. I first saw Star Trek in the late 60’s on AFN in Germany. I was a sophomore in high school and hooked. That show started my continuing love for fantasy and Sci-fi literature and movies. I’ve only recently ventured out to cons as an older adult. I love seeing the love for the original show. Just spent last weekend reveling in a BBC marathon of the show.i was in heaven. I guess we can all thumb our collective Trekkie noses at all the naysayers!

You’ve got that right. Thanks for the comment!

I grew up with the next generation, and while I was too young to participate as a Trekkie, I was well aware that only “geeks” liked those kinds of shows. It has been interesting to watch how popular culture has come to respect the geeks and the nerds. As computers have developed and technology has become the rule rather than the exception, it seems that all of the engineers and programmers are getting their much deserved moment in the sun.

I really like how this article tackles a real ideology for some people. I recently completed the finale series of Star Trek (Enterprise), and although this is more about the original (as any good article on the subject should be), I like the care that goes into the history of how this show that was cancelled and then 10 years latter resurrected in film became a cornerstone in science fiction, in the same way that Star Wars was for filming. Unlike Star Wars, people are more willing to accept fans of those than fans of Star Trek, which is why I felt this past 50th anniversary wasn’t as hyped up as Star Wars will be next year for it’s 50th anniversary (1977-2017).

Thanks for the comment! 2017 is going to be a big year for Star Wars. I can’t even imagine all of the celebrations and surprises Disney/Lucasfilm have in store. Can’t wait!

It is definitely an interesting contrast between the original fan base growth it has seen in recent years. The fact that this isolated culture has become so mainstream does make one wonder about what separated culture now will become the next popular culture.

An amusing and perceptive article. Thanks for your research and insights!

Thanks, Ben, glad you enjoyed it! It was a pleasure to write.

Star Trek fans are the most cited fans when scholars study fans in the early 20th century. They are so typical and so misunderstood. The image of fans changes a lot in the past 30 years.

An excellent perspective on a TV relic turned film franchise turned marketing behemoth. Especially when Mary Shelley’s contribution to the genre is nearing its anniversary in 2018 amid the latest 2015 rehash of the tale. Hope to see more renditions of the original Start Trek vision in years to follow.

It’s terribly sad how unfair society was to Star Trek fans. Actually, it downright makes me angry. My dad was (and still is) a Trekkie, but not your stereotypical version of one. Myself, I’m not a full-blown Trekkie but he and I do make Star Trek references or watch reruns now and then to bond. I have to wonder if that common interest would’ve been stronger if, back in Star Trek’s heyday, society had been kinder.

While we’re on the subject, you could say the same about other fandoms. For instance, I’m a Disney nerd and a blossoming Harry Potter fan (long story), but outside family and friends, not a lot of people know that. People who do know might think it’s weird for a 30-something woman to have these interests, or accuse me of being “obsessed.” But that’s the thing about fan culture–you don’t have to be obsessive about it. You don’t have to be a creepy fan, or childish, or a stereotypical nerd. It galls me that society at large is still having trouble accepting that, but only for certain interests. (I mean, have you *seen* diehard football fans lately)?

A good essay. I remember when Star Trek was first on the air. I don’t think I had any idea back then that it would evolve and continue to be with us today.

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CinemaBlend

'Star Trek's' Paul Wesley Strongly Clarifies Recent 'Vampire Diaries' Comments, Explains Why He's Open To Many Years Of Playing Kirk

Posted: April 23, 2024 | Last updated: April 23, 2024

Actor Paul Wesley is crushing it as James T. Kirk in "Star Trek: Strange New Worlds," but even so, there's a community of fantasy fans out there still holding out hope to see him return to his former franchise. Those hopes were dashed recently when Wesley went viral explaining why he wouldn't return to "The Vampire Diaries," noting that eight years on a show was long. CinemaBlend wondered if that same mindset translated to playing Kirk in "Trek" and got a passionate response from the actor about the differences between the two. We had a chance to speak to Paul Wesley recently, and during our conversation, we brought up the fact that many "Trek" actors have reprised their roles throughout their lifetimes. As the heir apparent to playing James T. Kirk from this point on, we noted he could be called on to play him in other projects and questioned if he was up for that, given the comments he made about never returning to "The Vampire Diaries." Wesley enthusiastically set the record straight on his original comments, with a bit of key context that better explained his response.

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'Discovery's Elias Toufexis Could Be 'Star Trek's Next Jeffrey Combs

Toufexis and Eve Harlow breakdown their Breen backstory and call the 'Discovery' set the best they've ever worked on.

The Big Picture

• Star Trek: Discovery Season 5, Episode 5, "Mirrors," delves into Moll and L'ak's backstory, revealing their love and the price on their heads.
• Stars Eve Harlow and Elias Toufexis discuss fleshing out their romance, joining the sci-fi series for its final season, and L'ak's connection to the Breen.
• The duo also praises the Star Trek: Discovery cast and crew for the warm and welcoming atmosphere, with Sonequa Martin-Green leading the way as a fantastic number one.

A few weeks ago, Star Trek: Discovery kicked off the series' final season with a dazzling new mystery and a pair of wildly compelling antagonists. Seemingly out to cash in on the greatest treasure the galaxy has to offer, lovers Moll ( Eve Harlow ) and L'ak ( Elias Toufexis ) have been neck-and-neck with Michael Burnham ( Sonequa Martin-Green ) and her crew as they hunt for clues . This week's episode "Mirrors," sees Burnham catch up with the two as she and Book ( David Ajala ) corner them on an abandoned ISS Enterprise from the Mirror universe.

As the two couples are made to face each other, we also get a glimpse into Moll and L'ak's backstory. Not only do we learn how they fell in love, but we also come to understand why they're on the run — L'ak is a Breen and in their attempt to run away together the duo killed a pair of guards. Now the warlike race has a price on their heads.

Ahead of the episode, I sat down with Harlow and Toufexis to talk about the big reveals in "Mirrors," the complex relationship between their characters, and what they're taking away from their time on Discovery . During our conversation, we also spoke about their personal experiences with Star Trek , when Toufexis learned he would be playing a Breen, and which episodes of Season 5 are their favorites.

Star Trek: Discovery

Taking place almost a decade before Captain Kirk's Enterprise, the USS Discovery charts a course to uncover new worlds and life forms.

Both Harlow and Toufexis have a fair share of sci-fi credits to their names with Harlow having made waves on shows like The 100 and Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. while Toufexis appeared in the smash hit series The Expanse as well as having voiced characters in a truly impressive number of video games. When asked what it was like to go from their sci-fi roots to arguably the biggest sci-fi series of all time, Harlow admitted that she'd actually "never seen Star Trek before." She went on to explain, "to me, I was like, 'Oh, cool, another job. Oh, cool, I get to be in space!'"

Meanwhile, Toufexis was a huge Star Trek fan. "And Elias was like, 'No, you don't understand. This is Star Trek .' Even in the sides for the audition, I remember the word “Klingon” being in there, and I'm like, “Wait, how do I pronounce this? What is this?” And on set it was like, “What's a Tribbler?” Harlow joked. "Then Elias was like, 'Okay, let me send you a YouTube video.' So I think for me it was just like, 'Oh, cool. This is fun. This is nice,' and then being told the importance of it by my co-star," she laughed.

For Toufexis, the role was a dream come true. He explained:

"It was great for me. I love sci-fi, and I was happy to do a lot of sci-fi before Star Trek, but yeah, I'm a giant Star Trek fan. Accepting the role was a no-brainer, and I was very, very happy and geeked out every day on set. I would get mad at people who worked on the show who didn't know the stuff that I knew. Not Eve. I would never get mad at Eve."

As actors, both Harlow and Toufexis know the struggle of auditioning over and over for until something sticks. He said, "as an actor, you audition for everything, and you take what sticks, right? That's the nature of the beast." He went on, calling Discovery a career highlight. "So it just happened to be that I have done a lot of sci-fi stuff in my career, so Star Trek is kind of the peak sci-fi . So, it's all downhill from here," he laughed. However, as any good Star Trek fan knows, playing one character is not always the end of the line for an actor in the series. I joked that Toufexis could return on another series in the future, following in the footsteps of actors like Jeffrey Combs and Suzie Plakson , to which he heartily agreed, "I'll play, like, 10 characters."

'Star Trek: Discovery's Moll and L'ak Are Hopelessly Devoted to Each Other

Shortly after we meet these two in the first episode of Season 5 , it becomes very clear that L'ak would do anything to protect Moll, to the point of taking out excessive violence on anyone who threatens her. When asked if that defensive nature was a result of their nature or inherent in them as individuals Toufexis explained, "I think it's inherent in them, but they bring it out of each other. It's a part of their character."

He went on to explain that L'ak was already looking for a way out of his life as a high-ranking Breen when he fell in love with Moll. He said, "I don't know if he was looking for love, but he found it, and then that brought out the guardian in him." He went on to say that one thing he loved about the fifth episode is that, in learning their history, we see that Moll and L'ak are more equals than it seemed in the first four episodes.

"It looks like he's almost her bodyguard, but when they're alone, you see it's not really the case. They're on absolutely equal footing, and he defers to her a lot. He's just protective of her, but she is of him, and that's their love." He went on to explain, " My favorite thing about these characters is their love for each other. It's rare in sci-fi that you have antagonists that have a genuinely good reason to do what they're doing, that I think people would relate to their love and passion for each other and freedom. That's it. We're not bad guys. We just want you to leave us the hell alone." He points out that in this episode, Moll admits they never would have made an enemy out of the Discovery crew if they'd just been left alone, "But you keep on us, and we’re gonna defend ourselves.”

Meanwhile, Harlow explained that the complete devotion Moll and L'ak have for each other is what makes them relatable. She said:

"I do think it's inherent to their nature, and I think that that's what makes them likable, is that there's the love and loyalty there, and they're the first beings in each other's lives that have been, like, he's proven to me that he's worth the love, he's worth the loyalty. Literally, everybody else has either died or betrayed, left. All that stuff. This one being has shown me that it's like, 'No, this is actually where I can store my loyalty, love in this being, and I'm gonna hold on to this being no matter what.' "

With this episode being called "Mirrors," not only for the time spent on a Mirror Universe ship, but for the relationships within, as Moll and L'ak serve as a foil to Book and Burnham. I asked the pair if they felt like their characters recognized themselves in their counterparts. For Toufexis, Book and Burnham are barely even on his radar. He said, "At least as an actor, I never even considered that. I was just like, 'Nah, I don't care about them.' He's very one-track-minded." He then laid out L'ak's priorities, saying:

"At least for me, the way I played it was, 'I just want Moll, and I want you to leave us alone. And if this tech, whatever it is that we may not understand, or even if they understand its power, whatever this tech is, if it could grant us freedom and to be left alone and to just go live our lives in love together, that's all that matters.' So I don't think they're looking and going, 'Oh, they're a lot like us, those two.'"

Meanwhile, Harlow agreed, comparing their characters to "caged animals." She said: "Everyone else are [our] oppressors, and so I don't care what's happening out there. I don't care how similar it is, because ultimately they have the key to the door to freedom, and they're holding here. It’s like, 'Fuck yeah!'"

Elias Toufexis Learned He Was Playing a Breen While Getting His Prosthetics for 'Star Trek: Discovery'

While the Breen have existed since the 90s, having first appeared in Star Trek: Deep Space Nine , we know very little about their species. Most notably, we don't know what they look like under their helmets — at least we didn't until this episode. As a fan of the franchise, I had to ask Toufexis if he knew he would be playing a Breen when he first got the role or if he found out when he read the script. He revealed that he actually found out while getting his prosthetics made. But before telling the full story of how he found out L'ak was a Breen, Toufexis took a brief detour to joke about another vast disparity between his Star Trek experience and Harlow's.

He said: "This is a funny story we haven’t told yet. When I auditioned, I knew I was gonna be in makeup because I had already been on the show in the third episode. I played one of the prisoners that's on the show, on Discovery , so I knew I couldn't play with my own face again. I knew I'd be in prosthetics. And I remember, this is like a side thing, but I remember calling Eve and talking about working together, and I said, 'So what's your makeup process?' She's like, 'I don't have any makeup. I don’t have any prosthetics.' 'What? You mean I have to go through five hours of hair and makeup…?'" Harlow chimed in confirming the call, "You were like, 'No, no, no, like prosthetics.' I’m like, 'Yeah, no. Nothing.' And he's like, 'Wait, are you sure?' [Laughs] I’m like, 'I don’t know how to break it to you, but no.'"

He joked that he was "hoping we were both gonna have 2:30 a.m. calls and all that kind of stuff," before diving into how he learned he'd be playing a Breen. He explained:

"But when I found out that he was a Breen was when I went to do the first step of the prosthetics. Being a giant Star Trek geek, I said, 'Can you show me what I'm gonna look like?' Because they’re doing that thing, the plaster mold, where you have to sit there in 20 minutes and try not to have a panic attack. But at that session, I said, 'Do you have any art of what he's gonna look like?' And they showed me, and I said, 'Do you know what race he is?' Because I think I had heard that he was a new race, or an unseen race, or something like that. And they said, 'Yeah, he's a Breen.' I was like, 'Wait, Breen? They don’t take off their helmets.' My geek mind starts going. Then they're like, 'Yeah, you're gonna be the first time that this race is revealed in Star Trek,' and that really got me going. I was like, 'Oh, okay! Let's plaster me up. Let's do this.' And somehow I got through it. But yeah, I was really excited to find that out. Especially [because] Deep Space Nine to me is, like, I love Deep Space Nine . I know the Breen they talk about in TNG a little bit, but Deep Space Nine to me is, like, one of my favorite shows ever, not just Star Treks shows. So, the fact that I was gonna be involved in that. We kind of delve into Deep Space Nine , so I was super happy."

Moll and L'ak Aren't Villains — They're Just Antagonists

In "Mirrors," Moll and L'ak become much more fleshed-out characters as we get a glimpse into their history with each other. Much like the revelation with the Breen, I had to ask Harlow and Toufexis if they had made up any backstory for their characters prior to learning the roots of their love story when they got the script for this episode. Harlow explained that they really only fleshed out the basics like how long they'd been together. She pointed out that sometimes if you make up a backstory for your character it can get entirely undone by the narrative. She said: "The thing is, you could create a backstory, and then you get the next episode and it’s like, 'Ha, joke’s on you. Totally wrong. Everything that we thought…' So, at least this is the way that I work, it's like, 'Okay, what are the stakes? This person is my everything.' That’s just how I’m gonna play it. "

"In terms of the flashback, I mean, it was fun," she grinned. "This might sound really vain, but looks-wise, what did she look like back then? I’ve just got to shout out to the hair and makeup and costume team. Freaking amazing. Such talented people, and also so collaborative, and talking about all this, and being excited about it as well. I think this is what was really cool about the show. Literally every single person is so excited about what they do. Like the props people, they're like, 'This is so awesome,' and then you're like, 'Yes! This is so awesome.'"

Despite not being a Star Trek fan before joining the franchise, Harlow explained that she couldn't help but fall in love with the whole team. "So even though, again, I did not know Star Trek , you can't help it. It's infectious when you're surrounded by that energy, and so it's like, 'Oh, cool. We get to explore our characters’ backgrounds and be in this Breen world.'" She went on to say, "seeing the sets is insane. That screen, the wall, is incredible. You step into the space and you're like, 'Whoa, people created all of this and I get to be a part of it? Incredible.'"

Toufexis was thrilled to get an episode so heavily dedicated to Moll and L'ak's motivations. Having played his fair share of TV baddies , he noted that this is the first time he's gotten to play out the why of what his character is doing himself. He told me:

"The backstory was the best part for me because, I've said this before, but I play a lot of bad guys on TV, and very often it's other characters that are just explaining why my character is doing what he's doing, or make a line thrown here or there, like this is what happened to me, so this is why I'm doing this. Whereas with L’ak, I got to play it. I got to go back and play how he got to where he is, and the great thing is it's justified. What I hope is that the people who watch Episode 5, when they rewatch, they go, 'Oh, yeah, everything they're doing they have a right to do. They're not bad. They're just the antagonists.' I don't mind if they call us villains for promotional purposes, but I’m kind of like, 'They're not villains.'"

Harlow chimed in saying, "They have hearts of gold, okay?" To which Toufexis doubled down on Moll and L'ak's desire to just be left alone.

Eve Harlow and Elias Toufexis Reveal Their Favorite Episodes of 'Star Trek: Discovery' Season 5

Again, as a pair of Trekkies, I had to ask Toufexis about the incredible experience of getting to actually spend time on the bridge of the Enterprise in this episode. Naturally, he was delighted. He told Collider:

"Well, you can imagine. I've already said I'm a super nerd. And also, The Original Series , that's what I watched growing up . I'm not that old, my dad had them all on tape — so I'm old, but I'm not that old. My dad had them all on tape in the ‘90s, so I watched them over and over and over again, and the movies, especially. So, for me, that was my introduction to Star Trek was the Kirk Enterprise, right? Even though I know this is not the Kirk Enterprise, but Kirk's on it. So being on that ship, I know story-wise it was the ISS Enterprise, but I'm still like, 'This is the Enterprise. I don't care what decals they put over this. I'm sitting on the Enterprise.' I went and took secret pictures of me on the bridge and stuff like that. I was just freaking out, man. I was like, 'This is like the coolest thing.' How can you not freak out being a fan of something and then suddenly getting paid to be there? It's pretty cool."

While she didn't have any personal connection to the sets herself, Harlow understood the importance through Toufexis' experience. "I had him explain all this to me," she laughed. "It's like this is my very own Star Trek Wikipedia sitting next to me. I'm like, 'Okay, cool, noted. Thank you.'"

When asked what their favorite episodes of Discovery Season 5 were, Toufexis decidedly chose the one we all just watched. "Five for me, for sure," he said, though he was sure to give some praise to the rest of the season as well. "There's a couple of episodes coming up that are really good, too, but for me, it's five because of that, the background and getting to play the background. It's kind of their big episode that reveals everything about her. So for me, it's five. " Meanwhile, Harlow set her sights on the series finale, saying, "I forget which episode it is, but it's later, it's either Episode 9 or 10, and I don't think I can say anything. I'm not gonna say anything, but yes, there is one I like."

The 'Star Trek: Discovery' Set Is Unlike Any Other Thanks to Sonequa Martin-Green

While this is Harlow and Toufexis' first season of Discovery, it's also the show's last. As I noted in my review, despite the writers not knowing Season 5 was the end, they somehow managed to bring the story to a full circle moment. And Toufexis felt the exact same way, he said, "You know what, I was just thinking about this morning. I was thinking about how it's somehow in this weird… The TV gods… Because the episodes that were already written before they knew it was gonna be the last season have this feeling of closure in this weird way, right?" He went on to explain, " Like Episode 4, where they go back and see themselves in the past. That is something that you would do when you would be ending a show, or Doug [Jones], Saru, going off and having these new chapters. That's something you would do when you would end the show. So, it’s this weird kind of thing that happened where it almost was fate that it was going to be the last season . I don't know if that is a sad note or something, but it just worked so well."

"So what I hope people take out of it is just this great feeling of closure of this amazing five years that these people have done. I mean, I'm a fan of the show and I've watched every episode. You're sad that it's ending but at the same time it's ending so well that you just kind of hope everybody just really enjoys the ride of this last season and then looks at everything as five years of what this show actually accomplished, which if you step back and look at it is a lot."

While Harlow admitted that she hadn't "thought about it that deeply, but ultimately I just want people to like it." She had nothing but high praise for series star Sonequa Martin-Green , saying: "The first thing, I stepped on set and everyone, Sonequa was so kind and so welcoming. Every single person on that set was wonderful , and one of the first things that I was told was, 'Welcome to the family.' I just want people to like it, to deserve that title of being in the family, if that makes sense."

For these two, working on Discovery was unlike any other set they'd ever worked on. "I would like to piggyback off of that," said Toufexis. "Eve has worked a lot, I’ve worked a lot, and this is one of the best sets you could work on. From Sonequa and down to the crew, to Michelle [Paradise] and Tunde [Osunsanmi], and all those guys, Alex Kurtzman. You just end up going like, 'All these people are nice.'"

The vibes on set were amazing from the start, to the point that Harlow could hardly believe it to be true, certain that at some point the magic would wear off. However, the warm, familiar atmosphere never faded. She explained:

"When I started, I was like, 'There is no way that this lasts for six months. There's no way.' Because people get stressed. It's just like being on sets — it's chaotic, there’s so many people. And, oh my god, until the very end people were so kind. I feel like a fangirl when I talk about it, and I feel like I've talked about it so much, but it's just because it's lasted, and it just shows what a set can be like. We had this thing, crew appreciation, which is like every single day, a different crew member would be clapped for, and throughout the day, if you saw this crewmember, you could just start clapping for them. So that means that by the time we finished filming, everybody knows everybody's names and what they do and has an appreciation for everybody's job. I've never seen that on any set. And it didn't get in the way of us finishing days. I know that some people are like, 'Oh, it takes time to do this care and appreciation.' Yes, it takes time. It’s, like, 30 seconds, and it lifts everybody's spirits. Anyway, yeah, it's great."

Toufexis confirmed that the source of those good vibes without a doubt comes back to their fearless leader. "It's Sonequa’s set," he said. "Sonequa was the number one, and she's the best number one I've ever worked with. Hands down. Just [the best] of the whole show. She's amazing. I could never say enough good about Sonequa." And Harlow couldn't help but agree: "Every single time I see her, I’m like, 'Sonequa, I love you so much!' I know I'm gushing again for the 50th time, but yes."

"Mirrors" is available to stream now on Paramount+ . New episodes of Star Trek: Discovery hit the platform every Thursday. Stay tuned at Collider for more.

Screen Rant

Fan expo philadelphia offers fans exciting star trek & star wars experiences, among many others.

Screen Rant will be at FAN EXPO Philadelphia, a 3-day extravaganza where fans can celebrate Star Wars, Star Trek, and more franchises with each other.

• Experience Star Wars Day at FAN EXPO Philly with celeb panels, autographs, and photo ops from Hayden Christensen to Ashley Eckstein.
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• Encounter stars from Star Trek , The Office , and Avatar: The Last Airbender at FAN EXPO Philly, May 3-5.

FAN EXPO Philadelphia is the perfect place to spend Star Wars Day this year with guests from across the galaxy and tons of other franchises making appearances. FAN EXPO Philadelphia will take place at the Philadelphia Convention Center from May 3 - May 5, and it's a great opportunity for fans of all genres to come together with celebrity panels, photo and autograph opportunities, and unique family-friendly attractions.

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Celebrity Guests From Across Television & Film Will Be In The Spotlight At FAN EXPO Philadelphia

Star Wars fans will be excited to see a number of guests from across the galaxy making an appearance at FAN EXPO Philadelphia. This includes Hayden Christensen, Rosario Dawson , Natasha Liu Bordizzo, Alan Tudyk, Ashley Eckstein, Eman Esfandi, Diana Lee Inosanto, and Emily Swallow. Fans can celebrate a Star Wars-filled weekend with celebrity panels, autographs, and photo ops with their favorite heroes and villains from a galaxy far, far away.

Star Wars Day 2024: Every Major Release Announced So Far

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