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Star Trek Beyond: Karl Urban and John Cho interview

Karl Urban and John Cho chat to us about playing Bones and Sulu in Star Trek Beyond and the franchise's meaning on its 50th anniversary...

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Appropriately, the opening of Star Trek Beyond sees Kirk (Chris Pine), now a little older and wiser, wearily pondering what the point of his five-year mission really is. “My dad joined Starfleet because he believed in it,” he says to his old friend Bones (Karl Urban). “I joined on a dare.”

With Star Trek as a whole celebrating its 50th birthday this year, perhaps it’s the right time for a film that takes stock of the Federation, the Enterprise, and even the franchise itself. Is the world now too divided and cynical for something as idealistic and utopian as the United Federation of Planets? As fans of the series, I think we know the answer to that question, but it was exciting to be able to ask the cast of Star Trek Beyond what they thought about the franchise’s relevance in the 21st century.

We found Karl Urban and John Cho in a relaxed and thoughtful mood when we met them in a London hotel earlier this month, and even their responses to heavy and not particularly junket-friendly questions were thoughtful and movingly personal. Here’s what they had to say…

I liked that the film suggested that space exploration can be exciting, but sometimes also repetitive and tedious.

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John Cho: Ha, yeah! That was pretty cool, huh?

It’s sort of claustrophobic.

Karl Urban: It’s a great way to open the film, to deal with the day-to-day reality of a five-year mission. Yes, there’s exciting stuff that happens, and we all see that, but it’s interesting to see the bits in between.

JC: And I think it was such an interesting coda to the first movie, which is the genesis story. It’s all bangs and explosions and how they get there, and to start [this film] with a moment of… really, boredom [Laughs] and an existential crisis as well…

KU: …it’s a bold way to start a movie, isn’t it?

JC: I really do think so!

KU: “We’re so bored!” [Laughs]

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JC: You know, there’s a shot that they didn’t use, of Kirk eating a breakfast burrito.

KU: Yeah, yeah. [Laughs] That’s very [Chris] Pine.

JC: Yeah, it’s very Pine. It’s all Pine. There’s a Star Trek mug, a Starfleet mug in there. A coffee mug.

I did notice that.

KU: On sale at K-Mart for $9.99!

JC: Does K-Mart exist anymore?

I don’t know!

KU: Yeah, they do.

We don’t have K-Mart in this country.

KU: You don’t?

No. I’d probably have to buy them at Asda or Londis or something like that. Anyway, so yeah – this film feels like it really evolves your characters – that they’ve moved on from being the young trainees from the Academy. You’re two and a half, three years into your mission. Was that good to get your teeth into as actors?

KU: It was. And that comes across in subtle ways. When the ship’s under attack, Spock and I, we leave and I’m doing my job and he’s doing his and [snaps fingers] you snap into being a professional. It was nice to have that evolution of character. For me, I felt that this version of McCoy was the most dynamic version that I’ve had the benefit of playing to date.

JC: It’s a Bones picture!

KU: You can see a lot of different aspects to the character, and it was a real treat. 

It’s more of an ensemble this one, isn’t it?

JC: I think it’s interesting too, because the typical set-up for Star Trek is that each character is relating to Kirk and he’s the centre of his wheel. And to split us up, I think, it naturally feels more ensemble-y because we’re relating to one another in different pairings. Then also, you get different emotional stuff as a result. For me, the emphasis on protecting the family, getting to Yorktown to save them – those personal stakes and so on… there’s just some more flavours in there.

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Do you have much input into the tone of your characters?

KU: Definitely. Early on, Simon [Pegg] emailed us an early draft and said, “Here it is. Let me know what you think.” And, you know, “If there’s anything you’d like to see in it, let’s work on it.”

JC: And we did.

KU: That’s exactly what we did. I can look at that picture and see many different beats from that collaboration up on the screen. I’m quite proud of that.

Can you describe any of the bits that got into the film that were yours?

KU: Yeah, well the sequence where Bones finds out that he has to go and fly a space ship and he’s not happy about it. That thing about, [huffily] “The next time you need a doctor…” To me, that was a throwback I’d seen DeForest [Kelley] get to do. I was always looking for the opportunity to sprinkle a little bit of that in there.

The themes of Star Trek are very much unity and inclusivity. Do you think it’s timely, having a film like this out?

KU: Yeah, and for a multitude of reasons. Not only because it’s the 50th anniversary of Star Trek, but also because it’s what makes it relevant today. There’s the Brexit that’s just gone on, the rise of extremism. The constant outbreaks of violence in the States. Star Trek represents a vision of hope, hope for humanity, that we can move beyond these times. We can work together and that we will no longer persecute each other and destroy each other and kill each other. That we will be unified, and I think that’s why Star Trek resonates – I think that’s why it’s important, culturally.

JC: [Star Trek] came about at a similarly tumultuous time in America. It was a time of great optimism, but also marred by great tragedy as well, so it was an interesting portrait of the hope of modernist America. Sadly, there are some parallels that are happening right now. We’re dealing with some… [trails off] incidents that are striking at the very heart of what we believe right now, at least in America. And it’s testing our values as a society. Not to read too deeply into it, but I just feel like Star Trek is a nice answer culturally speaking. It’s not a political answer, it’s just a cultural answer. The theme of this one is that family bends but doesn’t break, you know? There’s something beautiful about it. I hope people have an appetite for that message. 

As you said, when Gene Roddenberry created Star Trek 50 years ago, it was a utopian vision of the future. Now we’re in the 21st century, do you think we’re any closer to that vision?

KU: Personally, no. I don’t believe we are. It’s pretty disheartening to see what’s going on in the world, not only the way we treat each other as human beings, but also the way we treat this planet. We were flying over here, and we passed over a country and it was pointed out to us that they were burning the forests. It’s sad, but I think that’s part of why Star Trek’ s important. It’s a beacon, it’s a lighthouse, as it were, a vision of humanity. It shows how we can operate at the highest level and be the best that we can be. And in some ways, because it is about earthlings, it resonates more on that level than say, something like Star Wars.

JC: Careful! [Laughs]

KU: I love them both. I’m not…you know.

JC: I don’t know. I think I disagree. I think the Earth may be in bad shape, [but] it does seem like there’s an assumption… we’re more in agreement that there should be equality amongst genders. That’s an assumption. In the 60s, there was not consensus on that. There was a debate about the superiority of the races or something, but that was still a debate. Now, at least, maybe culturally we’re policing that more. There are dissenters, but generally, there seems to be an agreement that one life is worth one life. Now, in practice, that’s not happening, but at least there’s not that debate. I don’t know.

KU: Alright, look… the ideology’s always been there. It was present in the 60s, that’s why Star Trek was created. But you asked whether we’re closer to this utopian vision? I just don’t think we are.

But like you say, John, the sense of inclusivity is much more clear and present. Like your character – it’s a tiny moment in the film, where it emerges that Sulu has a husband. But that doesn’t define your character, it’s just a part of who he is, and nobody bats an eyelid…

JC: Yeah. And listen, George [Takei] was saying that he had a discussion with Gene Roddenberry about Sulu’s sexuality back then, and Roddenberry was frank and said, “You can’t do that. Not at this time.” But now we can. And ironically, George is the one who’s objecting, but that doesn’t seem to be the case worldwide. So it seems there is some marker…

KU: I know what you’re saying. There is some progression, yeah. In terms of certain microcosmic changes in society, for sure. But still, globally? We’re a mess. [pauses]

What a downer.

JC: What a downer! Yeah! [Laughs] Star Trek Beyond – in theatres July 22nd!

KU: Go check it out! [Laughs]

JC: Go check it out, so much action! From the director of Fast & The Furious!

I’m sorry. It’s my fault. I’ve brought everything down haven’t I? No, but this is why it’s such an interesting franchise, because you can have these conversations within an action-packed movie.

KU: That’s always been the point of Star Trek.

JC: That’s its lasting power. Roddenberry developed a really delicious set-up. It can hold so much. You can do so much to it, you can discuss so much with it. It’s a big bowl into which you can put just about anything. It’s fascinating.

You probably wouldn’t tell me if you knew, but where would you like to see the franchise go next?

KU: It’s very difficult to gaze into a crystal ball at this juncture and hypothesise about what might be. Obviously, they’re doing a new television series – Alex Kurtzman’s a producer on that, and he was involved in the writing of the first two films, so there’s a great brain trust there. But for us, we don’t know. We love working together, that’s definitely a fact. It’s just a question of us getting this film out there and we hope that people enjoy it and have fun.

What about the things you’ve been working on separately? Karl, you’ve been trying to get Dredd 2 off the ground, and that’s been difficult, but how about an extended version of the first Dredd , on DVD, perhaps?

KU: No. We literally used every scrap of footage that we had to make that. But I’m constantly blown away by the fan response to that film, and here we are years later still talking about it. It’s really wonderful to see how it’s become this cult classic. 

How about you, John? Do you think there’ll be another Harold & Kumar any time soon?

JC: I didn’t think so. But I thought of a really great idea, and I pitched it out to the director when we happened to be having dinner one night. And I don’t know… I think we’re gonna get this made.

KU: I think you should make it. Those films were so much fun.

JC: We kept saying, “What’s the idea?” And I think I’ve got a good one.

KU: I think I know what it is. [The two exchange a glance, then burst out laughing]

JC: I’ll tell you in a minute.

KU: No, I’ll tell you and you tell me if it’s right.

JC: Okay, go ahead.

KU: Not here! [Motioning to me]

JC: Oh. Okay!

Aw. I thought you might let it slip. [Laughs] But no. Are you surprised at how enduring the [ Harold & Kumar ] films are? Like Dredd – they’ve been embraced.

JC: It’s so funny that Hollywood has become so entrenched in its formulas. Because what I’ve experienced is that the good stuff comes from places you don’t expect. You can never tell – well, actually, you can – fans really love originality. And that’s counter to the thinking that’s around right now. But they love things that are fresh and honest and interesting. And if you give them that, they’ll come back, I think. Hopefully there’s someone else who’s dreaming up these things, because if we just keep making films about board games, we’re in a bad space for cinema.

We’re on another down note! [Laughs]

JC: Dude, this interview’s gone off the rails, man! [Laughs]

Is the way of getting unusual, different films made to produce them or push them through yourselves. in some way?

KU: A few of us are at that juncture where we’re looking to take a more active approach to the material we want to get involved with. I’m certainly investigating avenues of interest – John and Zachary [Quinto] are as well.

JC: Yeah. To some extent it’s out of necessity. At the moment I’m producing and starring in a TV series on cable. We haven’t made an announcement yet. But to some extent it’s necessity, and to some extent it’s about being as enmeshed in the process as you can, and to enjoy it to the full extent. But yeah, that’s definitely where I’m headed more and more.

Well, it’s been a pleasure talking to you both.

KU: It’s been uplifting! [Laughs]

I’m sorry! John Cho and Karl Urban, thank you very much.

As John Cho said, Star Trek Beyond arrives in cinemas on the 22nd July. “Go check it out, so much action!”

Ryan Lambie

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We’ve got a lot more interview content coming, as we spoke to the  Strange New Worlds creative team — franchise boss Alex Kurtzman and co-showrunners Akiva Goldsman and Henry Alonso Myers — at the show’s New York City premiere this past Saturday, along with some more of the cast, so watch for that content very soon!

Star Trek: Strange New Worlds debuts with its premiere episode — aptly titled “Strange New Worlds” — on Thursday, May 5 on Paramount+ in the United States, Australia, Latin America, and the Nordics, as well as on CTV Sci Fi Channel in Canada; additional international distribution has not yet been announced.

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Published Aug 4, 2023

WARP FIVE: Director Jeff W. Byrd Takes Us Under the Cloak of the Klingon War

The director gives us insight on the heavy toll of war and the episode’s open-ended conclusion.

SPOILER WARNING: Discussion for Star Trek: Strange New Worlds Season 2, Episode 8 "Under the Cloak of War" to follow!

StarTrek.com

Welcome to Warp Five, StarTrek.com's five question post-mortem with your favorite featured talent from the latest Star Trek episodes.

Anchored between the crossover episode and musical episode, Star Trek: Strange New Worlds ’ “ Under the Cloak of War ” provided viewers with a deeper understanding of the seeds laid out in the season’s opener, “ The Broken Circle .”

The story balances the present realities Captain Pike’s request of his crew to welcome a Klingon defector and Federation ambassador — Dak’Rah — with the past horrors those Klingon War veterans experienced at a field hospital stationed near the front lines of battle on the moon of J’Gal.

Star Trek: Strange New Worlds | Battlegrounds: Starfleet's Veterans

Ahead of the episode’s release, StarTrek.com had the opportunity to talk to director Jeff W. Byrd about his love of Star Trek , preparing the cast for the heavy themes of the episode, Dr. M’Benga’s shocking reveal at the end, whether he’s Team T’Pring or Team Chapel, and more!

On Making First Contact

Behind-the-Scenes of "Under the Cloak of War"

Jeff Byrd’s love for Star Trek began at an early age with his family surrounding their television set together. “Back in the day, when I was just a little boy, my parents used to have us watch Star Trek because of Uhura,” recalls the director. “She was the only Black woman on television at the time. We would all gather around the TV to watch it and hope it was an Uhura episode.”

“And if it wasn’t, then we'd still watch it,” Byrd continues. “She had her finger to her ear so we were all getting excited about that stuff. And then we got addicted to it, and fell in love with Kirk and Spock, and Sulu, and all the OGs. I grew up from there, to now come full circle, and have directed Discovery and Strange New Worlds . It's incredible. My dad is very influential in the formation of this career that I’m in and embracing.”

On How Discovery Shifted Gears for Him

Upon being prompted on what he’d select as his favorite and/or definitive series, Byrd reflects before revealing, “That’s a good question. Now you’ve got me thinking. As much as I love The Original Series - I don’t know. I really love Discovery for Michael Burnham. I love what they were able to do there, and how they were able to flip the concept of what we thought Star Trek was.”

There are two eras for Byrd — The Original Series and Discovery . An unapologetic fan for decades, Byrd shares that Star Trek: Discovery reignited his love for the franchise and sees Michael Burnham as the unifying, “eye-opening” thread of both eras by connecting her to Spock. “Before Discovery, yes, it was TOS all the way,” notes Byrd. “But then, when Discovery [arrived], I was, ‘I can’t stop watching this; wow!’ All the things I thought, they were shifting a little bit.”

"Charades"

The “Under the Cloak of War” director praises Star Trek: Strange New Worlds for once again, showing a different perspective to events laid out in The Original Series. “Now with Strange New Worlds , it’s the same thing with Spock and T’Pring,” Byrd highlights. “I remember on set talking to Ethan Peck and Jess [Bush] and we were talking about [Spock and Chapel’s] relationship and everything. And I told them, ‘I got to really say to you guys, I’m Team Spock-T’Pring.’ Especially now that I know the backstory and watch her support him. I love her; she’s amazing! And then I was, ‘Chapel, you’re a homewrecker. Leave him alone. He’s got a good woman.’”

“I love these shows because they put these new spins on things that I’ve already kind of adopted,” Byrd adds, “and now I have to rethink that whole ‘ Amok Time ’ episode from TOS. You know what? I’m not mad at her for doing what she did,” before concluding, “I guess I don’t have just one [favorite]; I love them all!”

"Under the Cloak of War"

An exciting opportunity with Strange New Worlds was the ability to connect with events in earlier works. Byrd shares that he revisited Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country and giving it “another look before starting work on this episode.”

“I love the fact that we went back to the old-school versions of Klingons,” he admits. “This Klingon scenario touches upon their OG modus operandi. We definitely did a little Undiscovered Country viewing and talked about it with the actors on set to make sure we were all in sync, and we all were.”

On Connecting with Talent and the Series’ Collaborative Process

Echoing Valerie Weiss , the director of “Ad Astra per Aspera,” Byrd values the one-on-one pre-production prep he had with each of the talent in the episode, including Robert Wisdom who plays the former general, current ambassador Dak’Rah, and how it helped the cast channel the intensity of the episode.

Commenting on the story’s intensity, Byrd notes, “That was on purpose. When I went in, I really wanted it to feel like a closeup show, almost claustrophobic in a way. Because that's kind of how war can be.”

Providing insight to his views of the Klingon defector, Byrd states, “My meeting with Mr. Wisdom went great. We talked about who Rah was, versus who he is now in the episode. And We worked out what he thinks Rah is and what I think or thought Rah is or was.”

“[Wisdom] actually felt Rah was changed,” Byrd expanding on their differing viewpoints. “I didn't feel Rah was so changed; I felt Rah was a little bit of a sellout. Well, he wasn't going along the Klingon path. But I understood why. Then Davy Perez, our amazing writer of this episode, he and I would have constant conversation every day. Everyday conversations, and sometimes ride back to the hotel together, and have little battles with, ‘Well I think this. Yeah, well, I think... What do you think? Well, you wrote it, because this would have made me feel this thing.’ We'd try some stuff on set, different versions of it. And that would work out.”

On Pulling Back the Curtain on M’Benga and Chapel’s Past

Byrd cannot be more thankful to have an episode led by Babs Olusanmokun, who plays Dr. Joseph M’Benga, and Jess Bush, who plays Nurse Christine Chapel.

The director shares, “Babs and Jess Bush were amazing in this episode because they did a lot of research, and a lot of just pulling video, archival footage of wars and PTSD moments, and the aftermath of what people went through after they came back home. From whether it be Iraq, or whether it be Afghanistan, or wherever. They pulled a lot of footage that I watched over on different weekends, and during the days, during the nights, I would go back home after we shot, or after we were prepping, and watched this footage that Jess sent me, or this footage that Babs sent me. And it was pretty amazing that they would put that much into it.”

“For them, it was just a different episode than the rest of them were,” explains Byrd. “We were able to really pour into each other and pull out different things. Obviously, it's a standalone thing. Because after this, we have the musical episode right, and before, it was the crossover with the animated series. Now all of a sudden, we got a heart massage, and battle, and people getting killed left and right.”

Praising the series’ return to episodic format, Byrd highlights, “We were able to then go, ‘Okay, forget about those two things. We're doing our own thing.’ And the actors were very excited about that. And I was able to give them some leeway, and give them some direction, but also give them room to bring their research to the table as well.”

On Leaving the Shocking Ending Open for Interpretation

The mounting tension between Dak’Rah’s presence and unrelenting pursuit of collaboration with M’Benga’s desire to be left alone culminates in the third act when the ship’s chief medical officer reveals he knows the Klingon ambassador was not the the real “Butcher of J’Gal.” It’s M’Benga who must carry that shame of brutality, while Rah must carry the shame of cowardice. He used M’Benga’s bloodshed to rebrand himself as a saint. However, “Under the Cloak of War” chooses to obscure the resulting physical confrontation. All we know for certain is that the scene concludes with Rah on the floor in Sickbay, dead with a blade plunged in his chest. 

“That definitely was on purpose,” confirms Byrd. “We shot three versions of that. Three or four versions of that ending. And I really love the ending that was chosen by the executive producers/showrunners. I love that ending because it leaves it open. It also forces us to trust them. It forces us to be like, ‘Okay, do we trust what Chapel’s saying? Do we trust what M'Benga is saying? Are they still out? Do we still love them as much now as we did before this episode?’ Because someone killed somebody in there. Somebody's dead for some reason. And was this self-defense? Was it on purpose? Was it malice driven? We know he is having a hard time with it. M'Benga has to do the heart pat; he's got to slow his adrenaline down.”

“So, what happened in there,” Byrd concludes. “I love that we're able to have you thinking, ‘Is my hero now not a hero? Is this person I love deserving of my love now?’ Because they might have just killed this person with malice. And dead men tell no tales. We don't know; Rah’s side will never be told. Rah won't be able to be like, ‘Hey, well, you know what happened….’ You don't know. And I love leaving it open like that. So, you'll never get me to nail down an answer to that question. Because I want it to always be open.”

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Christine Dinh (she/her) is the managing editor for StarTrek.com. She’s traded the Multiverse for helming this Federation Starship.

Star Trek: Strange New Worlds streams exclusively on Paramount+ in the U.S., U.K., Australia, Latin America, Brazil, South Korea, France, Italy, Germany, Switzerland and Austria. In addition, the series airs on Bell Media’s CTV Sci-Fi Channel and streams on Crave in Canada and on SkyShowtime in the Nordics, the Netherlands, Spain, Portugal and Central and Eastern Europe. Star Trek: Strange New Worlds is distributed by Paramount Global Content Distribution.

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Watch Simon Pegg and Karl Urban Try and Out-Franchise Each Other

They also talk about making ‘Star Trek Beyond’, what they collect, video games, Harrison Ford pictures, ‘Pete’s Dragon’, ‘Thor: Ragnarok’ and a lot more.

With Star Trek Beyond opening in theaters this weekend, the other day I landed an exclusive video interview with Simon Pegg and Karl Urban . Since they’ve been answering a lot of the same questions about Star Trek , plus the fact that I didn’t want to talk about spoilers from the movie, I decided to ask some fun questions. We talked about what they collect, favorite video game consoles, Pegg’s Harrison Ford picture, what they’d like to see in a Star Wars anthology movie, Pete’s Dragon , Thor: Ragnarok and a lot more. And while I think the entire interview is a lot of fun, I strongly suggest watching the last minute or two where they try and out franchise each other. Trust me, it’ll make you laugh.

As most of you know Star Trek Beyond finds the crew deep into their five-year mission, and brings Idris Elba into the fold as a villainous character, with Kingsman standout Sofia Boutella playing a new ally. Chris Pine , Zachary Quinto , Zoe Saldana , John Cho , and Anton Yelchin also star as director Justin Lin works from a script penned by Pegg and Doug Jung .

Check out the interview above and below you can find the official synopsis followed by some recent Star Trek links and exactly what we talked about.

 “Star Trek Beyond,” the highly anticipated next installment in the globally popular Star Trek franchise, created by Gene Roddenberry and reintroduced by J.J. Abrams in 2009, returns with director Justin Lin (“The Fast and the Furious” franchise) at the helm of this epic voyage of the U.S.S. Enterprise and her intrepid crew. In “Beyond,” the Enterprise crew explores the furthest reaches of uncharted space, where they encounter a mysterious new enemy who puts them and everything the Federation stands for to the test.

Simon Pegg and Karl Urban:

• What did Harrison Ford say to Pegg when he told him about his framed picture?
• Who did Pegg sleep with to be part of Star Trek and Star Wars ?
• What do they collect?
• Favorite video game system?
• Pegg talks about involving the cast in the script.
• Have they seen Star Trek Beyond with a big crowd?
• The relationship between Spock and Bones in the film.
• Pete’s Dragon talk. Is Urban prepared for little kids to not like him?
• What would they like to see in a future Star Wars Anthology film?
• Thor: Ragnarok talk.
• Pegg and Urban try and out franchise each other.

Here are some recent Star Trek links:

• First ‘Star Trek Beyond’ Reactions Are Highly Positive
• Chris Pine and Zachary Quinto on What They Collect and If They’re Playing Pokemon Go
• Final ‘Star Trek Beyond’ Trailer Hits with Rihanna’s “Sledgehammer”
• ‘Star Trek Beyond’: Chris Pine on Kirk’s Psychological Battle
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Interview: Mike McMahan Talks “Caves,” Season 5, And Trying To Bring ‘Enterprise’ To ‘Star Trek: Lower Decks’

| October 20, 2023 | By: Laurie Ulster 115 comments so far

TrekMovie spoke with Mike McMahan in a roundtable interview at New York Comic Con, where the wide-ranging discussion covered the latest  Lower Decks episode (“Caves”), as well as what’s coming in at the end of season 4, how the writing’s going on season 5, and how Mike’s journey to creating a show for the new era of Star Trek began with rejecting an offer to join the staff of Discovery .

Honoring TAS and a last-minute change to “Caves”

McMahan talked about how important it was for episode 8 (“Caves”) to be a standalone episode. He described a last-minute change he made to remove a subtle connection to the season 4 plot arc about the missing ships. The showrunner told the press roundtable about preserving the tone and intention of the story:

“There’s one line I cut at the end of this episode when the Vendorians show up and they’re like, ‘Give them a little minute.’ Originally, they said ‘… after this, it gets a lot harder for them.”’ The Vendorians kind of know where it goes and I cut it in the edit because it was such a beautiful friendship moment at the end of the episode. I didn’t want to fly in the ointment at the end, it just felt wrong. It felt right on the page, but people are only going to have to wait a week to find out for themselves to see it… It’s better to end on a happy note.”

McMahan confirmed the season plot will come into focus in the next two episodes:

“The finale does. Episode 9 does to a lesser extent. But 10 is like a movie. It’s wonderful.”

He also mentioned that “for heart, I think this upcoming episode 9 is my favorite,” meaning his favorite episode of the series.

Thursday’s episode “Caves” featured a storyline involving Vendorians , shape-shifting tentacled aliens first featured in the  Star Trek: The Animated Series  episode “The Survivor.” After “Caves” was shown to the NYCC crowd, Mike joined the Star Trek Universe panel discussion  and talked about how he used to watch VHS tapes of Star Trek: The Animated Series and loved being able to bring in elements of that show into Lower Decks “with equal respect” to all the other Star Trek shows:

“So obviously seeing the Vendorian design, that was straight from The Animated Series . Getting to translate that and put it in there not only makes a fun Lower Decks episode but now you can go and watch that Vendorian episode of TAS and now you get to enjoy that again through new eyes for the first time. That’s a really special fun thing that I like about getting to make one of the current Star Trek shows… which [is to] recontextualize things you know and love. When you go back and watch Star Trek shows like before, now you get a whole other part of your brain activated while you’re watching. That’s what I love about TAS stuff.”

Vendorians in “Caves” (Paramount+)

Season 5 is not being written as series finale

At the NYCC panel, McMahan revealed he was working on the final script for the show’s fifth season. At the roundtable, he talked about how he approaches writing season finales, both past and future:

“They always want me to make sure that I’m writing something that feels like a new viewer can understand it and that the finales feel finale-y, so if it doesn’t continue or if there’s going to be a gap it doesn’t feel like when ALF originally ended and he got surrounded by FBI agents pulling their gun on him, and that was the last episode and you’re like, ‘No!’ But as much as they want me to feel like I’m writing [season] finales that are series finales, I just don’t think I’m ever going do it, because you want to feel like these characters are going to keep going. Lower Decks isn’t The Iliad . It’s not a place to go. You are dipping in on these character arcs that are going to resolve and grow, and people will change, but Ross and Rachel aren’t going to get married. We are not drilling to this thing. For me, I want you to be satisfied at the end of the season and I want you to want more.”

Earlier this week, we posted part of our interview in which McMahan clarified his thoughts on the possible future of the series in response to a widely circulated article where he expressed concern about getting a pickup after season 5. He told the roundtable group that even if it doesn’t happen, he will still hold out hope for more Lower Decks in one form or another:

“Let’s say we did get canceled—knock on wood, I hope we don’t—but I love comic books, I love novels, I love video games. I would love them to hire me to write a movie. There’s always ways for this to grow. A part of why I got into animation was because of Futurama , watching that in high school. Then they cancelled it when I was working at Fox, because I love Futurama , and then they brought it back and then they just brought it back again. One of the powers of animation is it’s deciduous.”

The showrunner wrapped up the topic by saying he’s “not worried about Lower Decks because I know how good it is,” with the caveat that pickups are based on people subscribing to Paramount+ and watching the show while it’s current. He said his one worry is that people will wait to watch the show later, making it become a cult hit “ten years after we made it.”

Lower Decks! Lower Decks!

McMahan was asked if he gets pressure from above to balance the show’s comedy with drama (or vice versa), and said he has free rein:

“I never got pressure. The only pressure is coming from me … I am just always trying to surprise everybody and to do a show that is something you’re going to want to go back and watch over and over… It’s funny because the longer you work on a show, the more you learn about it while you’re making it. Like season 1 was almost a ‘How long will they let me get away with this?’ I better do the greatest hits of Star Trek. We’re doing a trial episode, we’re doing a holodeck episode. As I have been making Lower Decks more and as I’ve been learning about the characters and finding out you feel for them as much as I do, that’s when I’m like, ‘How much can this comedy show take on before it starts to feel maudlin?’ … I find the rule of thumb is, if TNG was a lot of drama with a little comedy, then I’m a lot of comedy with a little drama.”

Boimler and Levy in “Caves” (Paramount+)

Enterprise might get some love in season 5

Lower Decks is known for making connections to Trek canon from all different eras of the TV shows and movies, which often results in guest spots from legacy stars. When asked if there is part of Star Trek he still wants to tackle, he singled out one particular series:

“It’s hard to get Enterprise . Because Enterprise is so proto, it’s so before TOS. It’s so tempting because it feels like TNG and that’s the world I play in and I love Enterprise . And that’s been the hardest, but I think in season 5 I figured out—if the deals work out, there is some Enterprise love in season 5. We are early enough so I could be wrong about that so tune in next year.”

Based on what McMahan said, it sounds like they have a clear plan that would involve actors from Star Trek: Enterprise  but can’t lock it in until these “deals” are finalized.

Enterprise could get some love in season 5 (Paramount)

Journey to Lower Decks began with Discovery

Lower Decks was first announced five years ago, but it turns out that wasn’t McMahan’s first offer to work on a new Star Trek series. Back when McMahan was an assistant at Fox (and writing his TNG season 8 Twitter account ), he was friends with another assistant, Aaron Baiers, who would go on to run Alex Kurtzman’s Secret Hideout production company. Aaron remembered Mike was a big Trek fan when work started up on Kurtzman’s first Star Trek series, so he gave him a call:

“He called me and said, ‘We’re making Discovery , did you want to come in and meet to be a staff writer?’ And I said no. And he was like, ‘I’m sorry, what the f–k did you just say?’ And I was like, ‘I’m on this show Rick and Morty , it hasn’t aired yet, but I think it’s going to be really special. I really love working on it… Call me in season 3 when you figure out who’s friends and who likes to work for the most.’ I don’t want to be figuring it out in the first place. I want to come in in the middle of it, you know? Then Rick and Morty aired and after Discovery did well enough they started building out and other shows. And he called me in he was like, ‘You’re right. I love Rick and Morty , Alex [Kurtzman] loves Rick and Morty . Will you just come in and have a conversation with him?'”

McMahan had that conversation, and the rest is animated Star Trek comedy history. He told the group that even before he was working on Star Trek, he was working on Star Trek.

“Star Trek has always been a comfort show. My manager used to yell at me, ‘Why are you writing spec scripts to take place in spaceships? Those are expensive.’ And I was like, ‘I don’t know. It’s just where I love to be.’ Those are the stories and the characters that feel like home to me. Then I ended up working on a couple jobs that were that were fine, but then Rick and Morty felt like home to me. I was the Star Trek guy. I was the sci-fi guy at Rick and Morty . So people would look at me and I’d be like, ‘All right, in season 3 of Stargate SG-1 they did this and we could do this…’ My wife and I used to watch all these different serialized sci-fi shows when we were we were falling in love. Like finding Farscape blew my mind, now it’s one of my all-time favorite shows. Weirdly, you find the things that that speak to you and you just want to tell stories that both honor that but push them in a new direction.”

Mike McMahan at the “Thank You Cam” in 2018, winning the first of his two Emmys for Rick and Morty (Television Academy)

He has a lot of merch ideas

When asked about the  Lower Decks merch he hoped to see, McMahan was simmering with ideas.

“So here’s the merch I’ve actually pitched that’s never been made. Number one: I want an action figure line that is in the style of Lower Decks but is every other Star Trek show ever. So you can have Kirk or Spock or Jadzia or Archer or anybody in the Lower Decks style so that you can have this new thing that’s fun to collect and watch grow. And I just love action figures. And then nobody’s ever made the planets of Star Trek. I want them to make inflatable beach ball planets and have a tiny little micromachines ship attached to the side in orbit..” “And the other dream thing is, I love tie-in novels… I remember I got into Star Wars when I was a kid because I read The Courtship of Princess Leia because I had been left in a car while my mom went shopping at Sears too long. Then I was like, ‘I guess I love Star Wars now.’ I would love softcover Lower Decks novels. I even said, ‘Guys, I’ll work with them. Let’s find great young never-been-published fan fiction writers and give them stories and make the covers all match and do a box set.’ And make them f—k up canon and all sorts of stuff that really good novels [do] when you read back, and you’re like, ‘This is wrong,’ but that’s what’s fun about it.”

Badgey ornament from Hallmark, seen at NYCC

More from NYCC

Check out our coverage of Alex Kurtzman’s comments during the panel and the IDW comics discussion .

Keep up with news about the Star Trek Universe at TrekMovie.com .

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Argh, no. Archer should return in Strange New Worlds, not in a parody cartoon.

He should be seen next to Robert April and Christopher Pike.

If they can find a way to get Mariner and Boimler on SNW there is definitely an opportunity for Archer!

But I will happily take him in LDS too! 😎👍

On LDS, it’ll just be a joke. On SNW, it would have considerably far more significance.

Archer on the USS Enterprise 1701 > Archer on the USS Cerritos.

I definitely agree it would be better to have Archer on SNW since he has a stronger connection to that period and would carry more weight now that we know Pike idolized him, I would just love it if he appeared in both. I’m just greedy! 😁

I’d like to see Shran on SNW. They could reveal that he is Hemmer’s father or grandfather.

No, Hemmer was an Aenar…

Hemmer was Aenar. Shran was Androian.

Grandson or great-grandson would be appropriate. Shran married the Aenar Jhamel and had a daughter named Talla. (From the ENT Finale These Are The Voyages). Hemmer could be Talla’s future son or grandson. 🖖☺️

Ah, yes, Jeffrey Combs. He would make or would have made an excellent Dr. Phil Boyce in SNW.

He’d be about 150. I know Star Trek has gone there before, but I’m not sure how well that sits in the time period. Maybe they could include him via flashbacks or ‘archive’ footage. Maybe we see Pike meet him as a child.

People were saying the same thing about SNW and LDS crossover and it would have to be a holodeck story or something.

Nah it will just probably be more time travel lol. It works and it’s easy. Maybe the Cerritos or Enterprise just travel back to the 22nd century after the Romulan War ended and Archer is the Federation President. They can use the Temporal Wars as an excuse why they go back to the 22nd century and needs to meet Archer or T’Pol.

It’s not that hard. The only two times there was a crossover but wasn’t a true meet up was Flashback with Sulu and the infamous TATV. Actually I guess Crisis Point 2 when Boimler met Sulu in a dream. But the rest they always found ways for all the heroes to meet centuries apart.

Just time travel that bitch and in no time Mariner will be cracking jokes with the real Archer about Decomposition Chambers and teasing T’Pol that the Vulcan Science Directorate are idiots for thinking time travel is not a thing. 😎🖖

Just think about it — treating it as a joke makes more sense for that failed series

See, this comment is exactly why I want crossovers to happen in Lower Decks and not SNW. A joke appearance where the character is integrated into the story without taking it over and without the overly sentimental reverence that plagues the live action Trek shows right now would not only be good, but the best possible outcome.

That being said, I don’t think it’s going to be Archer.

It’s gonna be a holodeck thing if it even happens. Chill.

One of the most common sources of absurd and pointless humor in LDS. zZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ.

I’m not the one out here having a tantrum over something that might not even happen anyway. And if you assumed Archer because of the merchandise comment, that means nothing, none of the rest of those have appeared on LD and never will.

Which is why enterprise is a perfect fit. Can you imagine them doing the decontamination chamber stuff on lower decks? That would be freaking awesome and I don’t even like the show usually.

Making fun of enterprise might get me more on board with the lower decks. This is very exciting

Crisis Point is still one of the best Trek episodes since 2005 though.

I don’t feel like one precludes the other!

Lower Decks is not parody, it’s cannon

Howitzer or Mortar or Traditional?

Canon with twice the “n.”

No, actually it’s brilliantly perfect!

Archer was an idiot who would have gotten them all killed their first month out if the scripts didn’t cheat outrageously in his favor.

I’d prefer to see no one from Enterprise … well, except maybe Phlox.

I know fans will hate this idea, because it would preclude them actually meeting, but…

…I’ve always loved the idea of parallel stories to form a crossover. An episode that shows how a threat affects two different time periods. Thinks AGT but instead of a younger Picard/older Picard, it’s Pike and Archer. But no time shenanigans at all.

It could open on Archer, confronting a menace in his own time. Then you move to Pike, who is dealing with the same threat more than 150 years later, and we see how the threat has evolved over time.

Then, the conclusion of archer’s story brings some kind of revelation for the audience about Pike’s handling of the same threat, perhaps explaining why it re-emerged years late.

I’ve always thought something like that could work well as a way of bringing shows together without them directly meeting.

But I know, people just really want to see pike and archer shaking hands and playing water polo.

They’ve certainly done it in Trek books and other media like the Star Trek: Legacy game.

I would worry about the difficulty in crafting a foe who is compelling and powerful enough to justify such a story. TNG’s top 2 are pretty tapped out after Picard. You don’t want to get in a situation like Marvel is in now where their main villain is not gaining traction (though that’s partly down to being in a mediocre first movie and the actor having legal issues), or have some super weapon or quest that’s less interesting when you get into the details.

But honestly I think it’s a solid idea to base different TV movies on at least!

Nah you’re just thinking too narrowly. It doesn’t have to be a villain. This is Star Trek, the best stories problem solving episodes. It’s a major reason why S3 of Picard sucked so badly: they went back down the big bad villain road.

Imagine something like the episode “Booby Trap.” Pike finds himself in a tough spot and flashbacks show how Archer dealt with the exact same situation, realizing later that the former NX captain actually left him the means to get out of it, tying them together.

It just takes a little creativity. That might be tough for fans, though. Fans lack creativity and imagination.

🤨 I’ll try not to take that personally.

It would have to be way more interesting than that to make for a good crossover event though. What you’re describing is just parallel structure in a movie, i.e. Generations but the 23rd century storyline isn’t over after 15 minutes and keeps getting cut back to.

And a shared event/character/plot would need to take into account how the TV shows don’t air at the same time, so it’s either handled in the season finale of one and picked up in the premiere or another, or it has less weight by being addressed randomly whenever the next show gets to it. Either way it serves the idea of an interconnected universe, but if these shows’ different writers are going to have to collaborate and not step on each others’ toes on top of what they are doing day to day, it has to be special and worth the extra effort.

You are not imaginative that’s why it wouldn’t work for you.

I know what you want. You want Pike and archer to team up to defeat the Borg. You want borg nano bots to resurrect trip.

You want to see Spock and TPol falling in love in a starcrossed romance. You want a climatic action sequence where both enterprises fight side-by-side.

Unimaginative.

Better that than being a pompous d*ck.

LOL, just awesome man. Yeah, as I recently learned, sometimes you just got to say something like that when an asinine weirdo does that to you. :-)

You don’t know the meaning of asinine, clearly. I’m a pompous d***, there’s a difference.

Disagree. But that’s not the point: the point is most people lack imagination. And then resort to childish name calling.

Your third grade teacher will scold you in the morning.

The point is you’re a rude and arrogant a**hole. I’ll happily never reply to your posts again. Make sure you do likewise.

This has always been the ideal way to do crossover between Star Trek series set in different time periods. Otherwise you get contrived setups like Generations, the LDX appearance on SNW, etc.

You’ll notice the best crossovers didn’t use time travel: Unification, Relics, Flashback.

They’ve done it twice and it’s worked, with Those Old Scientists and Trials and Tribbleations, but both of those notably were played for laughs.

Anson Mount actually talked about wanting to do that during discussion of Those Old Scientists. I think that would be great, an artifact from an older episode shows up in a newer one to link the two.

That’s good to know that someone’s thinking about it!

As much as I love Enterprise it’s that love for it that I’d rather not see any of them anywhere near nu-Trek. Not crossing over to any of their shows and certainly not as a wrap movie or series. At least not until Kurtzman has zero say over Star Trek in any way shape or form.

McMahan just oozes Star Trek. I love every time he talks. LDS has been one of the best Trek since Voyager ended and hope it goes several more years.

Yes 100%. Of all the new Trek shows, including SNW, LDS feels the most like Star Trek to me. Second is Prodigy…

You said it brother! LDS is oddly the most Trek show currently and I love both PRO and SNW as well, they are all great shows. But LDS just does it in a way that honos everything that came before and deeply connected to the spirit of the franchise while having a lot of fun with it.

Before this show came on I was deeply disappointed with a lot of the newer stuff from 2009 on and I wanted to like it all. With LDS I actually expected to hate it but instead has become one of my truly favorite shows. 😀

On a side note I truly love reading your posts man. Besides agreeing with most of them I also like you keep some of the crazies here in check. 😉

Haha thanks, much appreciated! I just can’t stand bullies or rude people who think they can intimidate people into backing down. Bullies need to be confronted and called out. Also it’s fun and cathartic to push back… But I never forget that when it comes to matters subject to interpretation, disagreeing with someone doesn’t make me right and them wrong. People think how they do for their own reasons and this must be respected. This is when you need to agree to disagree… But rude posters… I mean who do they think they’re talking to? Nobody knows who anyone is here…

Anyway TG I have to say I really like your posts too. You’re always so enthusiastic, friendly and polite and I don’t remember ever disagreeing either, imagine that!

Well said, Silvereyes! I agree 100%. I’ve always tried to stand up to bullys both when it’s directed at me and when it’s directed at others.

And I also appreciate your frank and direct responses to me when you think I’m getting out of hand.

Great post — thanks!

No I don’t think we’ve ever disagreed on anything either.😀

But even if we did it’s cool. My best friends here from another site, Corylea and Amirami don’t agree with me on everything either but love listening to their thoughts. And we agree on most lol. They were partly why I started posting here.

Oddly I’m much more positive on things today. Other than Discovery which I think is still awful, everything else has been good lately. I was one of the biggest Kurtzman haters for a long, long, loooong time. But I always give credit where it’s due and we’ve had some of the best Star Trek in the last two years because he’s hired great people who gets and loves Star Trek.

Love the animated shows of course, Picard finally became the show I wanted back in first season and SNW has been a lot of fun with the crossover episode probably my favorite episode in all of NuTrek.

It’s finally finding its groove although shows like LDS had it in the first episode IMO. I’m not thrilled with Section 31 or the Academy show, but I said the exact same things about LDS and PRO before those started too. If those could change my mind maybe these will too?

So I’m generally happy where it’s going. But if you met me 5 years ago it would’ve been a very different story. 😂😥

But I love reading your posts. They are usually hilarious and how well you put the bullies and weirdos in their place. I don’t have the patience for it lol. Keep it up!

Well reading your post I don’t think we disagree here either. I still dislike Kurtzman, but I don’t know really how much of the responsibility goes to him for the bad (and even less the good) shows. I’ll wait and see for Academy and S31, but if they’re set in the ridiculous and depressing Discovery Universe, my hopes are low. I like SNW but disappointed with Pike. Doesn’t seem to show the fortitude earlier captains had, especially in last season’s finale. There better be an explanation for his wimping out at the worst possible moment. I like Spock when he’s Spock, not when he acts like a dumb bro. The writers think it’s funny to have him behave diametrically opposite to his character. I think they’re incompetent in that case at least.

As far as replying to those bullies and weirdos, well I could have replied here a few places :) but my patience has limits.

I think we’re going to get an explanation in the first episode of season 3 for that weird wimpy behavior of Pike’s. I think they want the fans to be disappointed is intended as part of the cliffhanger and then we’re going to get an awesome surprise with season 3 ep 1.

At least if the writers are doing their job that better happen because otherwise there’s no excuse for that behavior of his and it disappoints me as well.

I’m hoping Academy shows these kids that have, for all intents and purposes, grown up in a post-apocalyptic society getting their first real experience with sustained optimism. The most interesting part of the post-apocalypse genre, imo, has always been the world-building involved in showing how societies get back on their feet, and that’s what I’ve got my fingers crossed for here.

I’m hoping Academy shows these kids that have, for all intents and purposes, grown up in a post-apocalyptic society getting their first real experience with sustained optimism. The most interesting part of the post-apocalypse genre, imo, has always been the world-building involved in showing how societies get back on their feet, and that’s what I’ve got my fingers crossed for here.

Exactly! I am really looking forward to the Academy series, and I hope that it’s context is what you are suggesting here.

Don’t get me wrong about Kurtzman, I still think he’s a complete and utter hack like JJ Abrams and left to his own devices Trek would be more dire today. But he does seem listen to his critics and why the Orc Klingons went away and they threw Discovery 1000 years into the future to try and fix all the problems it had in season one.

I do like the show better overall today but it’s still horrible and the only show I haven’t loved or at least like by the time it got to its fourth season like I do TNG, DS9, VOY, ENT and now LDS. Just waiting for it to end basically.

That’s also why SNW is so much better. It’s like they took everything they did with Discovery in season one and just did the complete opposite of that. And look at that, they now have a watchable show most people can at least tolerate! 😂

I do agree about Pike and actually call him Softie Pike on another site. I read this is how Anson Mount want to play the character. Sometimes it’s fine, other times I want him to hang up his apron for an episode and get a little bolder. And a few less dad jokes too.

As for Spock, I do like him but they act like he’s still a teenager at times and the butt of too many jokes. But I really liked Charades though. That was a fun episode but probably over did the temper tantrums too much. At least he didn’t go into rage mode and tried to beat anyone up like Spock in JJ verse.

And not looking to seeing genocidal Georgiou with her cartoonish swagger again but maybe that Oscar will push Yeoh play her better this time.

We’ll see I guess.

Lower Decks “feels like Star Trek” because it literally is. Episodes are crammed full of references, cameos and easter eggs. Easy way to win fans over and “feel like Star Trek”.

Do you like have anything to do besides copy and paste comments about the same thing over and over again

I think Emily’s comment is OK, but I know what your mean given I ran into this very recently here. I need to learn to ingore those weirdos I guess…lol

The answer you are looking for is yes! 🙄

I would also add that McMahan “oozing Star Trek” is by no means an unqualified Good Thing.

When Nick Meyer helmed TWOK, he was unafraid to put his own imprimatur on Star Trek and certainly did not feel compelled to ape everything that came before him. (To some extent, this was true or Robert Wise in TMP, too.) Did every one of Nick Meyer’s takes on Trek work? No, but a lot of them did. In TWOK, we certainly didn’t get a cupboard full of TOS easter eggs raining down on the bridge like tribbles infesting quadritriricale. But what we did get was one of the better Trek movies.

Counterpoint: Stuart Baird didn’t know jack shit about TNG and clearly had no investment in anything beyond the action scenes in Nemesis. Movie suffered as a result.

There has never been a Star Trek show like Lower Decks and it has a totally unique tone and voice. Its admiration and occasional irreverence towards Trek tropes and history is like nothing we’ve seen before, all while it forges plenty of its own mythology and develops characters who can stand on their own. Lumping it in with complaints about Hollywood’s fixation with nostalgia ring hollow to me as the show is fiercely original on its own, and that’s down to McMahan’s talent as much as it is his love of Star Trek.

And remember, the main characters in LDX are Star Trek fans. The show is over the top self aware. I’m guessing some fans like it because those characters are them going ga-ga over all the Trek references they dish out.

I am sadly forced to agree. What many fans seem to love is ‘member berries. Which LDX is filled to the brim with. I love ‘member berries as much as the next guy but when your entire show is reliant on them there’s a problem. Also, the show seems to think being self aware and all the meta references are funny. They aren’t. I was actually looking forward to this show years ago. But after seeing it, it was obvious the writers and so much reverence for the source material they never ever wanted to have even the slightest amount of fun with it. It was obvious the writers feel handcuffed to not do anything that might be deemed “making fun” of Trek. That is possibly the shows biggest problem right there. And it seems to be a problem with a lot of comedy today. No one willing to take chances anymore. That’s where comedy dies. Much of it is reliant on crossing lines.

“ McMahan just oozes Star Trek”

Yeah I think he should see a doctor about that.

Merchandise suggestion: Plush Moopsy. You’d be essentially printing money. 😉

Can I preorder?

I still really think they need to do a rand mcnally style globe of the Borgified Earth. It’d probably be the only FC-related item I’d ever choose to buy besides the movie (though if somebody gave me the actual Phoenix model, I’d be over the moon … that’s the only piece of shot-on-film Trek I’ve ever held in my hand, during an ILM visit, and I have to say, it was a jewel, an absolute jewel, looked even better in person than on film, as did the -E which I was able to get close to but not touch as it was still set up for a shot. By comparison, the Nebula class ship more closely resembled — owing to a paint job I found distinctly unimpressive — the kind of cardboard E-D cutout they used to have hanging in TOWER Video stores during the 90s. )

So you’re saying the E was an actual model and not CGI?

10 ft model. Only cg used for timetravel shots, warp shots and extreme wide shots. Was later scanned for the folks who did the all CG stuff in INS.

I didn’t realize that. That explains why FIRST CONTACT looks so much better than INSURRECTION.

I don’t think the credibility gap on space miniatures vs cg really closed until GRAVITY came along, but even so, not many films have delivered on the GRAVITY level since, though I saw bits of some Russian movies that were just unbelievably good in this regard.

ILM built a 10 foot Enterprise E model for First Contact. I believe that was scanned for the CGI model (most obviously used when showing the ship going to warp). I don’t know if Santa Barbara Studios or Digital Domain used and modified ILM’s computer model, but First Contact was the last time a physical model of the Enterprise would be used in a Star Trek production.

There was a huge delay on the E-E ship approval process on FC, owing entirely to delays on Paramount’s end, even though they bought off on Eaves’ take right away. That meant ILM had to wait for Rick Sternbach to package the design (that was Eaves’ phrase as I recall) before ILM could start. As a result, I think the CG model at ILM was worked up concurrent with the physical model, so i don’t believe they had time to scan it — or maybe they didn’t even have that facility back then. I do know that SBS had Viewpoint DataLabs scan the 10 ft for INS, but I don’t believe DD used that info for NEM … won’t swear to that as I didn’t write about NEM, tho I did cover TUC thru INS.

Ah interesting!

Okay but I love the sound of that action figure line.

I want it to be of characters that haven’t gotten figures before or very rarely does in true LD fashion. Like Weyoun! I’m trying to imagine him in the LD style but I think it’d be so cute!

The Cetacians (spelling?) would be nice. And they would be fun to have in the bathtub too… And no, I’m not joking

Let’s be honest: You would probably find Weyoun cute in any style ;-)

Funny story… A couple of years ago I had to have heart surgery, but I was trying to downplay my symptoms and just take medicine, but a Doctor at the hospital convinced me my life was in danger, and he resembled Mr. McMahon. I decided to trust him, my heart valve was replaced, and my life was saved. Thanks Mike, indirectly, for making me reconsider surgery. LLAP

Interesting story, but certainly not Funny! Glad you recovered and are feeling well. LLAP!

Someone get Playmates Toys working on some Lower Decks action figures already!!! I honestly don’t understand why Star Trek Toys especially Lower Decks can’t be at least a third of the way as successful as TMNT: Mutant Mayhem has been. I seriously think Paramount and Playmates just don’t have anyone that knows how to generate a buzz behind the property and keep the momentum going.

Right. I’ll get right on it!

What a great story! Glad you recovered, dude!

Omg I would love Lower Desk style Star Trek figures. And I totally use to use an inflatable Earth to fly my starships around when I was a kid so inflatable Star Trek worlds is a really good idea.

Enterprise?

OMG, actually that’s an a great combination. Star Trek’s funniest series with a crossover to Star Trek’s most unintentionally funny series. It makes perfect sense actually!

What was funny about Enterprise? I really liked that show. Not during its initial run, I didn’t even see most of the episodes then but during lockdown I rewatched all seasons and I came to love that show. It has greater re-watch value than TNG and even TOS.

I liked it a lot as well.

Please please please — I want an animated decontamination chamber orgy scene!

Well, the decon scenes is one of the reasons I didn’t watch the show originally. Still find it idiotic…

So you just partially answered your first question to me with this comment.

Throw in racist Vulcans, Klingon augment viruses, the worst looking Enterprise design in all Trek, the worst opening theme song in All Star Trek, the worst acting in all Star Trek, and the worst series ending episode in All Star Trek — and there’s tons of stuff to laugh about in this failed series that deserved every bit of the cancellation it got.

Jeffrey Combs did his best with what he got to work with

Combs was great and I never actually felt the writing was bad on the contrary. I really like how he portrayed Shran. The character had courage and integrity. Completely opposite to Weyoun though I loved that character too!

Agreed on Combs. He was never the issue

The writing on Enterprise make Secret Hideout writing (every show) look like it was written by 6 year olds.

Vulcans were already portrayed as racist since that was one of the reasons Spock joined Starfleet.

Spock was treated like crap by other Vulcans for just being half human. That’s exactly what racism is!

To me Vulcans have always been racist pricks, they just hide it better just like how they learn to hide their emotions.

Another great thing about ENT was that it didn’t present Earth as the center of the galaxy. On the contrary, it was something of a galactic Switzerland; the *Vulcans* were the galactic pole, and how others saw them is akin to the way the Global South sees the West today.

While that’s true in terms of the way Spock was treated a couple of time, there’s also a much larger cultural shift for Vulcans that happens in Enterprise where the Vulcans were more “antagonistic” against other races than the ones we know from TOS and beyond. Additionally, Enterprise’s Vulcans behaved differently from how Star Trek fans expected, and there was an undercurrent of racism present from both Vulcan and Human culture towards the other. This is something T’Pol, Archer, and the Enterprise crew overcame over their years serving together.

Yes, I hated the Vulcans, how the Enterprise looked, the ridiculous song that I have to skip over every time, but acting was good and yes the ending was terrible. But somehow when I rematched it years later I could look over those things and appreciate the characters and storylines… but if indeed there is a crossover with LDS, you know they’re going to put in a decontamination scene.

I appreciated the attempt to right the Vulcans in season 4. And some the acting was great, at least. Can’t praise Combs enough as Shran, and Trinneer naturalized Tucker’s dialogue so well.

I keep meaning to give the whole thing another rewatch but it’s quite an investment and I just didn’t like it all that much the first two times. But it has been like 10 years

Throw in racist Vulcans, Klingon augment viruses, the worst looking Enterprise design in all Trek, the worst opening theme song in All Star Trek, the worst acting in all Star Trek, and the worst series ending episode in All Star Trek 

1. Star Trek has always depicted Vulcans as arrogant, starting with “Amok Time” and “Journey to Babel,” and even some of Spock’s condescension about “your Earth emotions.” Why is the racist Vulcan in “Take Me Out to the Holosuite,” which predated ENT by about three years, acceptable, but Soval is not? What ENT did well was to show us just *why* Vulcans have this reputation, and indeed to suggest that it was not entirely unjustified (cf. Archer’s speech to T’Pol about how “I’m finally beginning to understand why your people held us back…”)

2. Ship design is obviously a matter of taste; I personally like NX-01 much more than Voyager or Reliant or Discovery or even Excelsior. But what they undeniably did well was the bridge design, which married modern technology with a few TOS nods, making NX-01 believable as a predecessor to NCC-1701 and yet look contemporary. That really was pulling a rabbit out of the hat.

3. I agree that there was no need to explain the change in Klingon makeup beyond “makeup technology and budgets changed since the 1960s.” But equally, you can blame DS9 for going there in the first place with “Trials and Tribble-lations.” And if they *had* to tell a backstory for the change in Klingon makeup, at least they pulled it off relatively well.

4. The worst acting in Trek, when we’ve suffered through Neelix, Kes, Harry Kim, Chakotay, and early B’Elanna Torres? At least the NX-01 officers felt like a crew. (I’ll also point out the absence of any annoying kids on ENT.)

5. I view “Terra Prime” — not “These Are the Voyages” — as the true finale to ENT. And “Terra Prime” works extremely well, drawing on all the themes of ENT’s run. Unlike VOY’s finale, it was not a poor echo of “All Good Things,” and unlike DS9’s, it wasn’t yet another war story that we’d seen umpteen times before with 15 minutes of a Vegas lounge lizard thrown in for good measure.

IIRC DS9 got a decent amount of flak for how it portrayed Vulcans in season 7. Take Me Out to the Holosuite and Field of Fire raised a number of eyebrows, Nimoy-style.

As for the acting on Voyager, I maintain that show had a very strong cast, underutilized or improperly deployed. I thought McNeil and Wang were sometimes out of their depths, but Lien was a highlight of season 1 to me – wonderful calming chemistry with Picardo. And Dawson is fantastic in Faces.

A number of agreements here from me.

2, I, too liked the NX-01. They were able to pull off making it look both modern and a predecessor to what we saw on TOS. Showing how bad a job they did on Star Trek Discovery & SNW and there was no excuse to screw it up because it was done well before.

3, I agree about there being no need to do the Klingon make up change episodes. The bulk of fandom knows the deal with the change. I don’t even blame DS9’s trip to K-7 for it. They acknowledged it in an amusing way and there was truly no need to expand on it. That said, I do agree the story was handled about as decently as it could. I just felt those 2 episode would have been better served on a different subject.

4, I would say apart from Patrick Steward the entire cast of TNG were probably the worst actors in all of Trek. That may be controversial but I stand by it. Also Stewart I would say remains the best actor to ever be a Trek regular as well. And as much as I loved Enterprise I think Bakula was miscast. I had a very hard time buying him in the role. He just looked like he was forcing everything.

5, Another agreement. I consider TERRA PRIME the series finale of Enterprise. But I do very much think DS9’s finale was the best of the bunch. Not only did it totally feel like the end (Which TNG’s didn’t) for it was a very satisfying wrap up of all the things going on with the show (which Voyager didn’t)..

PS. Should have said I’m on board with your #1 as well.

PPS… Should have replied to River Temarc instead of me. Oops.

While I certainly agree that the decon chambers weren’t ENT’s finest moment, you’re applying a double standard if that’a showstopper for ENT, but at the same time you can overlook TOS’ miniskirts and other scantily-clad women, Jadzia Dax in a swimsuit in “Let He Who Is Without Sin,” the Troi-Crusher exercise scene in TNG, Dabo girls/holosuites, and — saving the best for last — Jeri Ryan’s catsuit.

It’s Hollywood. Things get sexed up.

“And then nobody’s ever made the planets of Star Trek. I want them to make inflatable beach ball planets and have a tiny little micromachines ship attached to the side in orbit..””

Please give Mike McMahan as much control over the Trek IP as possible

I can’t wait for the “Who Mourns For Adonais” planet with a Micro-Machine Enterprise stuck in a Translucent Green Glow in the Dark hand!

Actually kind of want to buy that Hallmark Christmas Ornament that came out this year of that exact thing. The hand of Adonais holding the Enterprise.

NICE, added to my xmas shopping list

Or the Catspaw encased-in-lucite one.

Bajor! With Deep Space Nine attached to it!

I got a Deep Space Nine Micro Machine, I should just go to a craft store and buy some paint and Styrofoam balls

Action figures…. first thing that comes to mind is getting the Stretch Armstrong creators working on a Goovok!

Called it, even with the line deleted.

Star Trek: Discovery Season 5 Episode 4 Ending Explained

WARNING: Contains SPOILERS for Star Trek: Discovery, season 5, episode 4, "Face the Strange".

• Captain Burnham and Commander Rayner navigate through time to stop the time bug, showcasing their growth and teamwork.
• A Voyager connection reveals the menacing Krenim "time bug" and its catastrophic effects on the USS Discovery's crew and timeline.
• Burnham reflects on her journey as she faces challenges from her past while navigating through alternate futures in "Face the Strange."

Captain Michael Burnham (Sonequa Martin-Green) and Commander Rayner (Callum Keith Rennie) find themselves hurtling through the USS Discovery's past, present, and future in Star Trek: Discovery season 5, episode 4, "Face the Strange". Written by Sean Cochran and directed by Lee Rose, "Face the Strange" demonstrates how far Burnham and Commander Paul Stamets (Anthony Rapp) have come since Discovery season 1 . It's also a chance for Burnham and her new Number One, Rayner, to finally work as a team, as they literally race against time to get Discovery 's hunt for the Progenitors' treasure back on track.

"Face the Strange" reveals that Moll (Eve Harlow) planted a Krenim " time bug " on Ensign Adira Tal (Blu del Barrio) at the end of Star Trek: Discovery season 5, episode 3 . Having worked its way into the USS Discovery's systems, the time bug traps the crew in their own history, randomly cycling the ship through the past, present, and future, freeing Moll and L'ak to retrieve the next clue . Burnham, Rayner, and Stamets are unaffected and work together to get the USS Discovery back to the 32nd century in time to stop Moll and L'ak from completing the next step in Discovery 's treasure hunt.

Star Trek: Discovery Season 5 Returning Cast & New Character Guide

How burnham, rayner & stamets beat star trek: discovery's time bug explained.

The time bug in Star Trek: Discovery is a particularly nasty piece of temporal technology, which proves hard for Burnham, Rayner, and Stamets to beat. Their first attempt to nullify the device fails, because time inside the surrounding field is moving at a rapid pace. Anything that enters the field to remove the time bug will cease to exist within seconds , forcing Stamets to come up with a far riskier strategy.

the warp bubble is what protects the crews of Star Trek 's starships from the effects of relativity...

The trick to beating the time bug is to reduce the flow of time in the surrounding field , but to do that, the USS Discovery has to break the warp bubble and throw relativity out of sync. As they travel faster than the speed of light, the warp bubble is what protects the crews of Star Trek 's starships from the effects of relativity . Abruptly breaking the warp bubble means that the time bug has less time to readjust to relative time outside the USS Discovery. This would weaken the surrounding field for long enough for Rayner to remove the time bug.

The main issue with Commander Paul Stamets ' plan was that the time-traveling trio were in the worst possible time period when it comes to Burnham's standing aboard the USS Discovery. The time bug's final cycle took Burnham, Rayner and Stamets to an early point in Star Trek: Discovery season 1, when Michael was still seen as a dangerous mutineer. For Stamets' plan to succeed, Burnham had to make her way to the bridge, fight and incapacitate her younger self, then successfully convinced the bridge crew to follow the orders of their future captain .

A line of dialog places these scenes at some point between episodes 3 and 4 of Star Trek: Discovery season 1, as Commander Landry is said to still be alive.

Star Trek: Discovery's Time Bug Is A Voyager Connection

Commander Rayner reveals that the time bug is a " Krenim chronophage " left over from Star Trek 's Temporal Wars . The Krenim are a technologically advanced species first introduced in Star Trek: Voyager 's season 4 two-parter, "Year of Hell." The USS Voyager's first encounter with the Krenim went so badly wrong that it created an alternate timeline that descimated the majority of the ship's crew .

This forced Captain Kathryn Janeway (Kate Mulgrew) to make the ultimate sacrifice to restore history. Hailing from the Delta Quadrant, the Krenim had devastating temporal weapons that were capable of removing entire species from existence. While Star Trek: Discovery 's time bug is much smaller, it can still have a devastating impact on its victims , as shown by what will happen if Moll and L'ak get their hands on the Progenitors' technology.

Voyager Is Why Star Trek Is Replacing Discoverys Spore Drive

Burnham and stamets’ time travel shows how much they've changed on star trek: discovery.

Burnham and Stamets are forced to relive some painful moments from their pasts, but these incidents remind viewers just how far the Star Trek: Discovery characters have come. Stamets hilariously draws on his angrier, snarkier past self from Discovery season 1, which helps him swiftly empty engineering. It's a fun callback to the person that Stamets used to be, before his tardigrade DNA made him more mellow, making him a better husband to Dr. Hugh Culber (Wilson Cruz) and a father figure to Adira. However, Stamets' tartigrade DNA has one drawback; he still experiences the pain of being impaled during the Battle of Control .

Burnham also gets a welcome reminder of how far she's come, courtesy of the Krenim time bug and some words of encouragement from Rayner. Rayner reminds her that she never gave up on her path from prisoner to starship captain , and so she shouldn't give up when faced with their bleak alternate future. Captain Burnham stirring the crew of the USS Discovery on the same day that her younger self came aboard as a prisoner is a strong affirmation of her journey between Star Trek: Discovery seasons 1 and 5.

Burnham's awkwardness around Book seems more rooted in her suppressing her attraction than trying not to change the future

Burnham also gets a chance to reflect on her relationship with Booker (David Ajala), when she meets his past self, fresh out of the shower. Burnham's awkwardness around Book seems more rooted in her suppressing her attraction than trying not to change the future. It's another hint that Burnham and Book's Star Trek: Discovery love story isn't over yet.

Star Trek: Discovery Finally Solves Its Biggest Short Trek Mystery

In the fan-favorite Short Trek , a soldier, Craft (Aldis Hodge) was picked up by the USS Discovery after his escape pod had drifted through space for a month. Craft formed a bond with Zora (Annabelle Wallis) who had been left behind by the USS Discovery a thousand years earlier. For years, fans speculated over where "Calypso" fitted into the Star Trek: Discovery timeline, something that the showrunners promised would come further down the line. Now, Discovery season 5, episode 5 "Face the Strange" provides the answer. "Calypso" takes place in an alternate version of the 42nd century, a thousand years after the Progenitors' technology had fallen into the wrong hands .

Star Trek Needs To Bring Back Short Treks

Burnham and Rayner's jump into the future reveals that Star Trek: Deep Space Nine 's Breen got hold of the Progenitors' technology and used it to destroy Starfleet and the Federation. As the USS Discovery hangs in space, Burnham and Rayner look out at a devastated Federation Headquarters, as Zora pleads with them to change the future. The use of a calypso version of Doris Day's "Que Sera Sera" is Star Trek: Discovery 's subtle confirmation that it's this catastrophe that left Zora abandoned for a thousand years before Star Trek: Short Treks .

Did Star Trek: Discovery Retcon Airiam’s Season 2 Sacrifice?

While convincing the crew of the USS Discovery to help with her plan to return to the 32nd century, Captain Burnham reveals that Lt. Commander Airiam (Hannah Cheeseman) will sacrifice her life to save her crew mates. Airiam accepts Burnham's future knowledge, because she knows that she would sacrifice her life in those circumstances. Airiam's knowledge of her own future is what eventually convinces her to follow Burnham's orders by breaking the warp bubble . In normal circumstances, knowledge given to her by a time-traveling Burnham would mean that Airiam will sacrifice her life in Star Trek: Discovery season 2 because she knows she has to.

However, due to the nature of the Krenim time bug, and Stamets' solution, Burnham telling Airiam about her tragic future doesn't retcon Star Trek: Discovery season 2. By removing the time bug before the next loop, Burnham, Rayner and Stamets negate everything that they did, meaning that, for example, young Burnham won't remember her fight with her future self. This means that Airiam will still make the decision to sacrifice her life in Discovery season 2, independently, not because she was inspired to do so by Captain Burnham .

Rayner Is Finally “Connecting” With USS Discovery's Crew

Callum Keith Rennie's Commander Rayner continues to go from strength to strength in Star Trek: Discovery season 5. Following Burnham's orders to " connect " with the Discovery crew in the previous episode, Rayner demonstrates how much he was paying attention during his brisk one-on-one meetings. Not only does Rayner give Burnham the encouragement she needs not to give up, he and Stamets appear to bond over being " old dogs " who specialize in " gruff candor ".

Why I'm On Rayner's Side In Star Trek: Discovery Season 5

Rayner's most notable connection is with Gen Rhys, whose theory about Moll and L'ak he brusquely dismisses at the start of the episode . Thrown back into time when Rhys was just a lieutenant, Rayner gets through to the young officer by bonding with him over a love of Constitution-class starships. Rayner's connection with Rhys is enough to convince the officer to lower his phaser and let him and Stamets proceed with their plan. Back in the 32nd century, Rayner finally acknowledges the value of Rhys' tactical assessment that Moll and L'ak would just follow Discovery to the next clue .

Rayner also tells Rhys that he's lost his family, teasing more about the new Star Trek: Discovery character's backstory.

Where Have Moll And L’ak Gone In Star Trek: Discovery Season 5, Episode 5?

The Krenim time bug caused the USS Discovery crew to lose six hours to Moll and L'ak in Star Trek: Discovery season 5, episode 4 . Returned to Tzenkethi space in the 32nd century, Lt. Commander Joann Owosekun (Oyin Oladejo) picks up Moll and L'ak's trail, but it quickly stops dead , meaning that they've seemingly disappeared. A starship trail that drops dead just before an episode called "Mirrors" would certainly play into Star Trek: Discovery season 5's Mirror Universe theory . Perhaps the reason that Moll and L'ak's trail stops dead is because they've phased into another reality altogether.

It's possible that Moll and L'ak picked up more than a Romulan puzzle box...

Alternatively, given Star Trek: Discovery season 5's Romulan connection, their ship could have used an interphasic cloak, first seen in the Star Trek: The Next Generation episode "The Next Phase". Interphasic cloaking technology effectively turned Lt. Geordi La Forge (LeVar Burton) and Ensign Ro Laren (Michelle Forbes) into ghosts, unable to be seen by their crewmates. It's possible, therefore, that Moll and L'ak picked up more than a Romulan puzzle box in Star Trek: Discovery 's season 5 premiere, meaning that they could have a considerable tactical advantage over Burnham and the crew in the next stage of the treasure hunt.

Star Trek: Discovery streams Thursdays on Paramount+.

'Star Trek: Discovery' season 5 episode 4 uses time travel to remember the past 5 seasons

It's pretty obvious watching this episode that the cast and crew, at the very least, strongly suspected that this was going to be the last season of "Discovery" when it was written.

Warning: Spoilers ahead for "Star Trek: Discovery" season 5, episode 4

With the news that "Star Trek: Lower Decks" is ending after its current season, that really only leaves "Strange New Worlds" as the last remaining Nu-Trek series currently airing on television. 

And, a word to the wise: If you're a die-hard fan of " Discovery ," make sure you have your own physical media, 'cause no one likes being at the mercy of whatever an overpaid television executive thinks. You're welcome. Moreover, after this final season of "Discovery," we're going to have until wait until next year for the next season of " Strange New Worlds ." It's all starting to feel a bit like "Game of Thrones" all over again.

Episode four, entitled "Face the Strange," is without a doubt the best entry so far in the fifth season, and one can't help but wonder after watching exactly when the cast and production crew were first informed that this would be the last season, because it was definitely before this episode was actually written. The reason? It is, for all intents and purposes, a 60-minute, time-travel-powered, postscript-style reminiscence of all elements of all five seasons — or as much as you can cram into an hour — and what a rollercoaster ride it's been.

So when Alex Kurtzman or Michelle Paradise or whoever it is that actually has authority in the writer's room entered said room, put down their grande iced sugar-free vanilla half-double decaffeinated half-caff latte with soy milk and a twist of lemon in their Paramount-branded 40oz Stanley Clean Slate Quencher H2.0 Flowstate™ Tumbler and announced, "Wouldn't it be great to revisit chapters from seasons one, two, three and four?" no doubt everyone cheered. "And how will this be possible?" asked Kurtzman, to which an eager-beaver intern no doubt excitedly thrust their hand up into the air and exclaimed, "Why, time travel , of course!"

Related: ' Star Trek:' History & effect on space technology

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"Quite right," replied Kurtzman (in our imaginations, at least), adding, "But it can be for one episode, so it has to be an isolated, self-contained form of time travel." Thus was conceived the "Time Bug," and with it came a ton of technobabble to precisely explain its parameters. Although quite why Zora didn't detect it was not addressed. Also, you know, transporters. 

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But this clever Time Bug, which can manipulate time in just about any way that's convenient for the writers to overcome any potential chronological complications — like life-changing paradoxes — came onboard the USS Discovery by way of that shifty Malinne "Moll" Ravel (Eve Harlow), who managed to infiltrate the Trill homeworld undetected, as we saw last week .

As a result, we get reminder glimpses of Michael Burnham's first coming aboard the USS Discovery way, way, way back in season one, complete with appropriate uniforms and everything. We get a fleeting reminder of the Red Angel and the battle with Control , naturally The Burn gets a mention, and there's even a not-very-subtle nod to the short-Trek " Calypso ." It's all a little bit like a Greatest Hits album that doesn't include any of the tracks that you actually liked, being played at 45 instead of 33. Remember vinyl?

Since it's now obvious that this season was written after the cancellation announcement had been made to the cast and crew, the single most important question is, Will the show benefit from that, or will it suffer? Are the remaining six episodes going to be a drawn-out epilogue, tied loosely together with a mostly lame plot? Or, will advance knowledge of the show's future actually serve the writers well, allowing them to produce something above and beyond the normal level of writing? 

There's even a very entertaining scene, in which 23rd-century Burnham must fight her 32nd-century self. Of course, the illudium Q-36 explosive space modulator fitted to the space bug prevents any changes from affecting the timeline, so you know, phew . 

Most of the original Discovery bridge reappear, as close to how they looked seven years ago as possible, and even Lt. Cmdr. Airiam (played by Sara Mitich in the first season and Hannah Cheesman in the second) makes a cameo, so that's nice. Also, we can really see as Sonequa Martin-Green flips between her two Burnhams just how effective that dreadlock hair piece that she wears through this season actually is. Half the show's budget probably went to that. 

 —   Watch the bittersweet trailer for 'Star Trek: Discovery's final season (video)

— Star Trek streaming guide: Where to watch the Star Trek movies and TV shows online

—  Star Trek's Seven of Nine returns in new novel 'Picard: Firewall' (exclusive)

It's a fun filler episode, and, even if it doesn't advance the plot an inch, it does allow character development to take place, particularly between Burnham and Captain Rayner (Callum Keith Rennie). Arguably the biggest surprise was that the writers were able to resist putting Captain Pike (Anson Mount) into this episode. 

The fifth and final season of "Star Trek: Discovery," and every other episode of every "Star Trek" show — with the exception of "Star Trek: Prodigy" — currently streams exclusively on Paramount Plus in the U.S., while "Prodigy" has found a new home on Netflix.  

Internationally, the shows are available on  Paramount Plus  in Australia, Latin America, the U.K. and South Korea, as well as on Pluto TV in Austria, France, Germany, Italy, Spain and Switzerland on the Pluto TV Sci-Fi channel. They also stream on  Paramount Plus  in Italy, France, Germany, Switzerland and Austria. In Canada, they air on Bell Media's CTV Sci-Fi Channel and stream on Crave.

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When Scott's application to the NASA astronaut training program was turned down, he was naturally upset...as any 6-year-old boy would be. He chose instead to write as much as he possibly could about science, technology and space exploration. He graduated from The University of Coventry and received his training on Fleet Street in London. He still hopes to be the first journalist in space.

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• EFH Dreadlock hair piece? Really? Before you publish, please do your research. Those are not dreadlocs. She is wearing braids. Yikes and cringe. I'm embarrassed for you. Reply
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Screen Rant

Star trek: discovery stars eve harlow & elias toufexis break down their villainous romance.

Screen Rant interviews Elias Toufexis and Eve Harlow about joining Star Trek: Discovery and playing season 5's villainous lovers, Moll and L'ak.

Warning: SPOILERS for Star Trek: Discovery Season 5

• Eve Harlow and Elias Toufexis play renegade lovers Moll and L'ak, who are hunting for ancient technology, in Star Trek: Discovery season 5.
• Moll and L'ak race against USS Discovery to find powerful Progenitor technology with the power to create life itself in season 5.
• Harlow and Toufexis discuss Moll and L'ak's love story, challenges with prosthetics, and the dynamic with Commander Rayner in Discovery.

Eve Harlow and Elias Toufexis are renegade lovers Moll and L'ak on the hunt for Star Trek: Discover y season 5's ancient and powerful treasure. Harlow is new to Star Trek while Toufexis guest starred in Star Trek: Discovery season 1, but, together, Moll and L'ak are the main antagonists of Star Trek: Discovery season 5.

Moll, a human, and L'ak, a mysterious alien, are a couple in a race with the USS Discovery to find the technology of the Progenitors , which has the power to create life, itself. Moll and L'ak are also being pursued by Commander Rayner ( Callum Keith Rennie ), the new First Officer of the USS Discovery, who is driven by his animosity towards the former couriers-turned-treasure hunters.

Star Trek: Discovery Season 5 Returning Cast & New Character Guide

Screen Rant spoke to Eve Harlow and Elias Toufexis about Moll and L'ak's Star Trek: Discovery love story, the challenges of L'ak's prosthetics, and how Moll and L'ak really feel about their pursuer, Commander Rayner.

Eve Harlow & Elias Toufexis Compare Their Romance To Star Trek: Discovery Season 5's Other Couples

Screen Rant: I'm loving this season of Discovery and the feedback I've gotten across the board is that this is the best season. Have you guys felt the love and the warm reception for season 5?

Eve Harlow: I stay off the internet because the internet scares me. (laughs) So it's kind of like, 'Okay, you can hear nice things. Yes, tell me nice things.' But the bad stuff I'm like, 'Lalala!' But yeah, that's great to hear. Elias Toufexis: Yeah, [I feel the love.], especially meeting people like you and the fans online. You're always gonna have detractors. it's always gonna happen, but if you can somehow not let them get to you and take in the love... The love is there this season. Everyone's really enjoying it, and I knew they would. I knew when we were shooting this, I'm like, 'This is too much fun. This is too cool.' There's so much cool stuff, so much fun stuff, there's no way people are gonna watch this and dislike it. And I was right. It's too much fun. The first episodes are fantastic all the way through, and then the other half of the season gets even crazier. I'm really happy with the reception.

Moll and L'ak are a love story. Discovery has a lot of couples . There are a lot of love stories going on. Would you say Moll and L'ak are the best couple in Discovery , and what makes them the best?

Elias Toufexis: I’d say they’re the best couple in Star Trek history. Eve Harlow: Obviously, we’re the best because it’s us! Elias Toufexis: I mean, look, they’re the coolest. They’re the coolest couple in Star Trek history, that's for sure. They're smart. They're in love. They're passionate. They know what they want. They do what they need to do to get it. And they don't care who's standing in their way. But they're not inherently evil. They're not inherently villains, really. Yeah, they're the antagonists of the show. But they're doing what they're doing for a reason. And those reasons are explained. And that's one of my favorite things about this season, that they're explained. The reasons are shown why we're doing what we're doing.

Bonnie and Clyde have been referenced a lot for Moll and L'ak, but they might be more like Mickey and Mallory from Natural Born Killers or Pumpkin and Honey Bunny from Pulp Fiction . Did you guys pull inspiration from any of these famous movie criminal couples?

Eve Harlow: 100% But I think that we see these like kinds of characters throughout different kinds of mediums. It was really funny because right before I did this show, there was another show that I did [The Night Agent], and it also had a dynamic of Bonnie and Clyde. I was like, 'I'm going from doing a Bonnie and Clyde on a political thriller to doing Bonnie and Clyde in space. F--- yeah!' So I think you can't help but draw inspiration. 'Oh, yeah, I see this, and I see how this is reflected in what I have'. But then you take it as some amalgamation of everything that you've consumed before, and you make it your own. Elias Toufexis: I'm inclined to toss out Mickey and Mallory. For me, that never played because they're such psychos in that film. Moll and L'ak are not psychos. They're passionate and they're in love. I mean, you could take the coolness of Mickey and Mallory, and you could throw that in there. But in terms of their reasoning for doing what they're doing.... Even Bonnie and Clyde is a little too much. [Moll and L'ak] are justified in what they're doing. I don't know that murdering anybody is ever justified, but their reason for being there is love and freedom. And that's hard to dispute.

Moll's Wig Was Eve's Idea & L'ak's Prosthetics Were A Challenge For Elias

Eve, you just mentioned you were on Netflix's The Night Agent as Ellen, an assassin in love. You wore a lot of wigs on The Night Agent. How does how does Moll's wig compare?

Eve Harlow: Okay, so fun fact: The wigs... That was my idea. Because for The Night Agent, when I got the script, Ellen was obviously an assassin who has different clothing and stuff. And because I wear wigs in my real life, I was like, 'Wait, this totally makes sense for Ellen to have wigs because when someone asks for a description of a person, its height, hair color, right?' It's the easiest thing to change. And so I was like, 'F--- it. I'm gonna pitch it to the producers, see if they're into it.' They were into it. That worked. And when I auditioned for Star Trek, I wore a wig for my audition. It just made sense. It felt sci-fi, it felt edgy, it felt like all of the things that I felt when I read the sides and the character description.

Elias, you and I talked a little bit about the makeup process for L'ak, wearing the head, and the makeup, and everything. How do you feel now that you've seen it on screen and seen how it plays? It looks awesome.

Elias Toufexis: You want to know the truth? This is how messed up being an actor is, like the body dysmorphia of an actor. I'll look at it and be like, 'Oh, it looks so cool.' And then, 'Nope, I look fat in that scene.' Even under the makeup. It makes no sense. It's completely ridiculous because the makeup is the makeup. But you're looking at it like, 'I don't like that shot, I like this shot.' I would only tell that to you, John. But having said that yeah, the process was tough. When it was over, when when the season was done, and I was done, I remember going, 'I don't know that I would do this again because it is very difficult.' I didn't realize how difficult it would be. I remember that first day of sitting there for five and a half hours, and then seeing [me as L'ak], and I'm like, 'This is the coolest thing ever! This is no problem.' And four or five days in, I'm like, 'This is exhausting.' And you don't realize that. You're putting it on for five hours, then you're wearing it for like 12 hours, and then you're trying to get it off. There was a week when we were shooting where I was more L'ak than I was Elias. I would take it off ,go home, sleep five hours, come back, and put it back on. There were times where I'm like, 'Can I just leave it on?' 'No, you can't.' So it was tough. But being removed from it now for over a year, you look at it, and you go, 'Okay, it was worth it because it's so cool.' And the makeup is what I was concerned about. I think I talked to you about this a little bit. What I was concerned about was [my performance] getting through the makeup. That his love for Moll [came through.] That was my big thing. Will you be able to see that he loves Moll through these contacts and the makeup? Yes, you can, and I'm very happy with that. That was my big concern and the fact that you could see the emotion... Because it was tough to get through. I had to be bigger than I normally am on-screen. I'm normally a very quiet, subtle actor. That's how I like to be, and I had pushed through the makeup to get it across. I was worried about being melodramatic, and it worked out. The director, Olatunde [Osunsanmi] was talking to me about it a lot. And he was right. And I'm very happy with how it turned out.

Why Commander Rayner Has A Grudge Against Moll and L'ak

L'ak has his own ship. He's one of the few Star Trek characters who actually owns his own starship. I want to get really nerdy about the ship. What are the cool things it can do? Does it have a name, model, registry number, all that nerdy Star Trek minutia?

Elias Toufexis: I want to give it a name, Eve. We should give it a name. I think he'd call it The Moll. I think he would do something like that. He would call it The Moll or the Malinne or something like that. I mean, again, as a big Star Trek fan, my own ship? Like, come on, it's the coolest thing ever. I love the detachment cells, and then it could spin and the nacelles spin around it, and then giving off the different warp trails and stuff, That kind of stuff is top of the line cool, man. I love that stuff, and I hope there's a million toys and ships and models. I'll buy 'em all.

Callum Keith Rennie's Commander Rayner is another awesome addition to season 5. Rayner really has a bug up his ass - a time bug, as it turns out - about Moll and L'alk. Can you talk a little bit about what his problem is with you? Because it's only been hinted at.

Eve Harlow: Oh, I don't remember what is revealed in what episode. What's a spoiler and what isn't? Because it's all fused together. Elias Toufexis: Callum is great. I've known Callum for years. He's a very famous Canadian actor. Eve Harlow: And I worked with him like over 10 years ago on this TV show he was on. And he remembered, and I hadn't. I was like, 'Oh dang. Hey again, years down the line.' Elias Toufexis: He's a great actor and I love Rayner. What's great about Rayner, for me, is it could be a very one-dimensional character. It could easily even be played one-dimensionally. And Callum is such a wonderful actor that you see layers getting broken down episode by episode. That's what's great about him in terms of his relationship with Moll and L'ak. I don't want to get into too much. I don't know what I'm gonna spoil,. But he definitely does have, as you say, a time bug up his ass. But they don't care about him. I'll tell you that much. They don't.

Elias, you're on the Star Trek convention circuit. We've hung out in Vegas. Eve, are you looking forward to doing Star Trek cons? You're part of Star Trek now. It's going to be part of you forever. There's gonna be Moll and L'ak cosplay.

Eve Harlow: Honestly, I'm excited to see that! That would be fun. When I first got on set, being welcomed on set, it was like, 'Welcome to the family.' So I'm just like, I'm excited to be here!

About Star Trek: Discovery Season 5

The fifth and final season of Star Trek: Discovery finds Captain Burnham and the crew of the USS Discovery uncovering a mystery that will send them on an epic adventure across the galaxy to find an ancient power whose very existence has been deliberately hidden for centuries. But there are others on the hunt as well … dangerous foes who are desperate to claim the prize for themselves and will stop at nothing to get it.

Check out our other Star Trek: Discovery season 5 interviews here:

• Sonequa Martin-Green
• David Ajala and Doug Jones
• Wilson Cruz, Mary Wiseman & Blu del Barrio
• Alex Kurtzman & Michelle Paradise
• Callum Keith Rennie

New episodes of Star Trek: Discovery season 5 stream Thursdays on Paramount+