suburban 8.1 vs excursion v10

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Video: Let’s Settle This – Which Mega SUV Is Best? Ford Excursion vs. Chevy Suburban 2500 0-60 MPH & Off-Road Comparison

They don't make them this way anymore.

They don’t make them this way anymore! Tommy compares a Chevy Suburban / GMC Yukon XL HD 8.1L V8 to a Ford Excursion 6.8L V10. These two huge family movers have big displacement engines, three rows of seats, 4-wheel-drive, cavernous cargo holds, and big trailer towing capability. Tommy compares the two power plants with an impromptu 0-60 MPH acceleration test. Next up he takes them through Andre’s Pit series of off-road obstacles and our ranch.

The big-block 8.1-liter V8 in the GMC was rated at 320 horsepower and 440 lb-ft of torque when it was new. The large V10 in the Ford had a rating of 310 horsepower and 425 lb-ft of torque. These are high-torque gasoline engines that can pull tremendous weight. Naturally, these engines and transmissions get a bit tired after many years and many miles of use. The GMC Yukon XL takes the acceleration test, even with over 294,000 miles on its odometer.

The off-road capability of these two is much closer, but this Ford Excursion is not equipped with a limited-slip or a locking differential. The big GM SUV has a G80 automatically locking mechanical rear locker. This is what helps it tackle the “Trenches” obstacle and come out on top.

It’s great to see these large SUVs in the wild. Join the video below for all of the details.

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Older V10 Excursion Vs 8.1l Suburban

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Hey guys just bought a new Outback and I want an older tow vehicle to get me thru a couple years till my truck is paid off. I plan on keeping my Sierra. It tows OK, not great, but it cant take all the guests and or the dog etc. So I'm going to trade the Impala, which is paid for, and look for a big SUV in the $10-13k range. It seems they are around 7-10 years old with 90-110k miles. Any thoughts on which might be better? I'm a GM guy but I dont really have a preference here. They'll both do what I want for a couple years. My goal would be one that doesnt need a bunch of expensive repairs. Any known problems or likely failures, repairs etc that you guys know of? Would you be afraid to travel 700 miles away in a 100k+ mile vehicle and ruin your vacation with a problem? Or are they just too old and whipped to use for this purpose? I'm open too all thoughts from you guys who have been there, done that, and are still doing it!  

As long as you find a diesel, it will be fine ... I wouldn't get a gasser with that many miles on it though ....  

My thoughts for what they are worth. I've had a few of the drivetrains in question...I would shot for an older Suburban with either the 8.1 or 454 they are strong engines with a strong tranny behind them. I would only get an Excursion if it was an 05 or newer with the torque-shift five speed tranny.Also the older V-10 has heads that like to spit out plugs. Power wise they are close. Currently I'm rolling on a V10 with the 5 speed and love it. But I also had a 2500 Avalnche with they 8.1 and it is a power beast. Good Luck John  

I have a 01 suburban with a 8.1 and its got 76k on it with no problems. I did upgrade the trans pan and a huge cooler with a fan on it as the tranns is strong but heat kills them. Its the 4L80 and its well built. Look for one with the 4:10 gears and it will pull you anywhere. Gas mileage stinks but at a 30mph roll on to an interstate you will have no problem getting in to traffic. They had problems with oil consumption but with that mileage it has been fixed, it was bad intake gaskets. We had an Excursion at work and it was nice and roomy, actually more room then the burb but it was always in the shop for engine work. Not sure what it had but it was not the v-10. We have a v-10 in a dulley and have not had any problems with it. I have towed with the Ford v-10 and it had about the same power as the 8.1L. Now the chevy engine has a longer track record then the ford. They sold more of the chevy engines then the ford. So maybe the parts are more readily available for the chevy. Only 8 plugs to replace then 10 I guess. Guess the choice is yours but I prefer da cheby....  

8.1 with the allison transmission and you will split that Outback in half of you hit the gas to hard. Its the closest to a diesel you will get,low rpms with lots of torque.  

I do not believe that an 8.1 was ever offered with an Allison although salesmen liked to perpetuate that myth. If you get a 'Burb - look for 2004 or later models. There was a mid-year change that greatly upgraded the electrical systems starting with the '04 MY. DW and I very nearly went this route - we found a beautiful one in Ft. Worth for about 14k that had 60k mi. on it. We were at the point of deciding if we were going to go get it. We waited and then we then decided that at some point, a 5'er was in our future so we got a pickup last Dec. on the employee pricing deals. The in-laws have an Excursion with a 6.0 PSD and it is a beast - tows very well. They did add Firestone air bags to the rear of it. I don't know if I would go for a 2V V10. The 3V is a significant improvement. I love my 3V V10 in my SuperDuty. It rocks combined with the Torqshift trans and the 4.10 rear. I think that the 3V model appeared in '05 so if you look for V10's - get an '05 or later. The heads have more threads in the plug holes that greatly improved the plug spitting problem. My mechanic told me, when I had them changed on my old '02 F150, that they let the motor completely cool down before removing the plugs then carefully change them, torqing them to factory spec. They let mine cool down for an entire day before touching it. If I had to choose between the two, I honestly think I would choose the 'Burb. The PSD has more raw towing power but I like how the Burb drives and rides. The interiors of the 'Burbs are refined. So basically, I would choose the 'burb not because of the powertrain but because of how the vechicle rides and drives. If you do get one, be aware that changing the shocks can be a wallet smasher. -CC  

[quote name='collinsfam_tx' date='Sep 4 2009, 10:04 AM' post='363129'] I do not believe that an 8.1 was ever offered with an Allison although salesmen liked to perpetuate that myth.] Actually i had one. A 2002 silverado 2500 Hd 8.1 w/Allison. Trust me it was in there with the unmistakable Allison whine.  

The 8.1L was offered in the Chevy and GMC HD (2500 and 3500) pickups with the Allison, but not in the Suburban.  

Ok that make sense,boy do i miss that combo.  

We have an "old gasser"... lol... runs great, tows great...no problems YET...fingers crossed.  

My baby is 12yrs old now, burns gas but has less than 90,000 miles on her. She has been nothing but absolutely reliable to me and I have no desire to replace her at this time. The old 7.4(454) platform has proven itself over and over and over on smaller haullers like ours to tow trucks to full blown motor homes for decades. Sure I'd love to have a $60,000 1ton dully oil burner, but I cant afford another house payment right now. My Burb is paid for and chuggin along on gas. ---Mike  

Thanks for your thoughts people. I agree on the diesel but they are too much money for me. Late model Excursions with the 5 spd were too much money also. I wouldve taken an older Sub or Ex, either one. Suburbans with the 8.1 are a little harder to find, seem to run slightly higher and I'd probably have to drive a bit away to get one. I found a very nice 2001 Excursion 90 mi away. Clean, clean, clean! Did I say clean? LOL. 79,000 miles with the v10. Asking price was 11700 and I ended up paying 9700 + tax. Perfect for my needs and current budget. I need something to tide me over for 2-3 years. A second vehicle that my wife drives 10k miles a year and we tow maybe 2000 miles a year if that. Once my GMC is paid for I can get pickier and spend what I want for the vehicle I want. Here's a pic, thanks again.  

Attachments

Congrats on the V10 - we love ours. Here are a few websites you might like to visit. 5 Star Tuning V10 Forum at FTE -CC  

Thanks. Is it OK to tow in OD with these things? There's no mention of it in the owner's manual. My TT is +/-7000lbs and during my test run it towed at 65mph @ 1900/2000 rpms in OD on flat ground.  

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• Domestic: Full Size

Suburban vs Excursion for Family of 8

• Thread starter BayMonty
• Start date Nov 21, 2020

• Nov 21, 2020

I’ve read about the legendary 7.3. I’ve also read about the common issues in the X, like the electrical systems, brakes, and suspension. I’ve read about the 8.1, and it’s common GM issues. This rig will be the daily family hauler, but will also serve as the adventure/overland vehicle. Will pull an off road basecamp trailer like the Taxa Woolly Bear, the Opus camper models, or something similar...nothing too heavy. The current family hauler is a 2013 Suburban LT 4x4 without a 4lo. Want to get a true 4x4 for the overland build. Prior to the Suburban, I owned Sequoia’s both the first generation and second (current) generation, GX470, Gen2, Gen2.5, and Gen3 Montero’s...pretty much Japanese SUV’s. Loved the reliability, quality, capabilities, etc. But once we had our 5th child, we knew we couldn’t stick with a standard full-size SUV. This left us with domestic SUV choices, which I’ve grown to really appreciate. Hoping to get the advice and opinions of others who have large families and have experience with one, the other, or both platforms overlanding. Out of all the SUV’s I’ve owned, this might sound crazy, but my favorite was the first Gen Sequoia. Stayed on top of maintenance and it never gave any problems at all. Bought it with high mileage (around 121K), kept putting high mileage as a daily vehicle, and sold it at 340K. No issues whatsoever other than expected maintenance. The 4wd system was really underrated. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk  

I might be biased but definitely suburban. Plenty of parts and very reliable. Good solid platforms. 8.1 is a beast but really only need if hauling heavy. They are known to use oil but that’s not a problem per se. the early ones had issues with the crank position sensor but that’s easy to change. It’s fuel mileage is pretty dismal. The 6.0 is a decent motor with plenty of aftermarket support. Fuel mileage isn’t great but will likely be better than the 8.1. 2000-2006 is a solid platform and will provide many miles of service. Find the cleanest one you can with the most maintenance records. Mileage is overrated. I recently bought another rig for my wife to daily drive. I looked at 18 different rigs 2003-2006 Tahoe/Yukon and many with 100-150k miles were trashed and not well maintained. Found a 2004 with 190k miles and it’s near perfect and had a giant stack of maintenance records for it. It’s all in how it’s taken care of. Good luck. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro  

Well-known member

The Excursions are very solid with good aftermarket support, I would just avoid the 6.0 if at all possible unless it's 'bullet proofed'. The current price disparity between gas and diesel can easily be $10k+, so you have to decide if you really need the extra pulling power. For me, I'd rather get a V10 rig with 4.30 ratios and pocket the $10k upfront. Less cold weather issues, and cheaper maintenance as well. The 6.8 V10 is a pretty reliable power plant, the only pitfalls are leaking exhaust manifolds and spark plugs occasionally being ejected (from improper torque following replacement, make sure you follow the TSB). The 4r100 trans is pretty stout as well.  

Thank you both for your responses. Aftermarket support is very important, as well as how readily available service and repair parts are. If that’s the case the Suburban wins. Has anyone had experience with the Suburban 6.5 diesel? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk  

6.5's are turds. I wouldn't even consider one. I own a 7.3 Excursion. Probably the best camping/road trip vehicle ever made IMO. Solid front axle, diesel engine, 44 gal fuel tank, plenty of room, not too big on the trail. List can go on. Also I much prefer fords interior layout and quality compared to GM of that era. about 90 percent of the parts on a Excursion interchange with the superduty's of the time. So whatever off road parts fit a 99 to 04 superduty will fit on the excursion. Also I think excursions a little bit longer so you will have a little more cargo room behind the third row. Let me know if you have any other questions about the platform.  

• Nov 22, 2020

glock7018, what has your maintenance costs looked like? Out here in CA the 7.3’s are pretty expensive even with high mileage. There’s an 01 with 80k miles for $45k. The dealer specializes in trucks and has an 05 v10 with 130k miles for half the cost, and an 02 Suburban 2500 8.1 with 120k miles for $19k. With another $20k, I can do a lot of things to the other two. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk  

WRONG_WAY_DAVE

Active member.

I would also consider a Gen4 Ford Expedition FX4 in standard or MAX model (Suburban class sized). With the FX4 option checked they come with skid plates, 3.73 gears, 32 inch tall 18s, low gear set, neutral "dolly" towing capability, terrain control, locking rear axle, and the ability to tow over 9K lbs as config'ed. Max payload is 1700-1800 pounds depending on options, and they have a TON of power (375/470tq w/91 octane) and economy (27-28 mpg at 50-55 mph with A/C on) and you can run them all day on 87 octane w/o problems. There are two legitimate lifts out there to raise the vehicle 1.5-2.25 inches all around (not spacers, but adjustable shocks and cost $500-$4500, respectively ) and you can run 33/34's with no/minimal zip ties/cutting. There are hitch mounted tire swings, roof racks, and some bumpers but they are not many. If you keep to the XLT model with an FX4 with tow package can be had for $53K new with a bit of haggling and discounts. Stick to this model or new/used prices can quickly rise VERY HIGH. I can't attest to the new gen of 3.5 TT Ecoboost engines longevity past 100-150K miles (but reports are good if you maintain it well) vs Toyota's 5.7 (which is probably no comparison for longevity), but there are bumper-to-bumper extended warranties that can take you to 8 years-150K...  

I have had 3 2500 subs, all 6.5s. With a little tuning they easily get to 250hp and 500lbft. The last year for them was 1999. 4l80 trans is a nice match to the engine. With 3.73s high teens are common on the highway if your not cruising at 80  

When you say aftermarket support, what does that look like? I have no experience with the suburban, however I own 2 excursions with the v10. Both my v10 excursions get around 10mpg city and 13-16 highway. Aftermarket support is great for suspension, bumpers, body panels. With the exception of rear quarter panels. As was stated earlier drive train and suspension wise if it fits a 99-04 superduty it will bolt on to the excursion, including bumpers. Just remember that a 2” lift for a f-250 will net 4” on an excursion. The excursion platform can fit 33” tires stock. 35” tires with minimum trimming stock or just a level for the front. 37” tires on 3-4” lift. All excursions came with a Dana 50 solid front axle. Arb, auburn gear, and Yukon all make lockers for this axle. 02-04 Ford superduty trucks came with a Dana 60 front axle. This is a direct bolt in to the excursion. And gives a wider range of limited slip or locker brands. From the rights salvage yard you can get one for a couple hundred bucks. Depending on how you want to go you could also swap the coil suspension and front Dana 60 from a 2005 - 2010 axle under the excursion. Just need the 2005 - 2007 rear axle also to match width. The excursion Dana 50 shares all parts from the knuckle out with the Dana 60. The 50 is a stout axle. The rear axle is a Ford 10.5 very strong axle. Shares carriers with the Ford 10.25 axle and if you feel you need Deeper gears than 4.88 you can run 10.25 ring and pinion gears with corresponding bearings. Also the 2011 Ford locker can be put in the older axle housing. Don’t discredit the v10 as it is a good motor. Very reliable. And well maintained will go 300k +, Not as much aftermarket support but it has plenty of power stock. V10 is much cheaper than diesel. And maintenance wise it’s far cheaper. I bought both my excursions and did some repairs for less than I would have spent on one 7.3 excursion. The only downside to the excursion is sort build time. 2000 - 2005 and not a whole lot of them were produced. Ride quality is a subjective topic. However on the dirt the suburban will probably jive a plusher ride than the excursion. However like I said I have no experience with the suburban. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk  

My mind is blown that rigs of that age are still 20+ k.  

Fuel mileage with a 8.1 and 4.10s is very comparable to a 6.0 and 4.10s (pretty lousy but neither was built for economy). I would absolutely buy another 8.1.  

Grassland said: My mind is blown that rigs of that age are still 20+ k. Click to expand...

*edit* Re read how big the family is. No crew cab truck has enough seats Ford Transit 4x4 conversion? Also mega dollars. I mean the aftermarket ones with real 4wd and low range, not the AWD available with the 2020s.  

plainjaneFJC

BayMonty said: glock7018, what has your maintenance costs looked like? Out here in CA the 7.3’s are pretty expensive even with high mileage. There’s an 01 with 80k miles for $45k. The dealer specializes in trucks and has an 05 v10 with 130k miles for half the cost, and an 02 Suburban 2500 8.1 with 120k miles for $19k. With another $20k, I can do a lot of things to the other two. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Click to expand...

Grassland said: *edit* Re read how big the family is. No crew cab truck has enough seats Ford Transit 4x4 conversion? Also mega dollars. I mean the aftermarket ones with real 4wd and low range, not the AWD available with the 2020s. Click to expand...

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Suburban 2500…6.0 vs 8.1 vs Excursion V10

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Excursion vs. Suburban Mileage?

By damone , September 30, 2010 in Trucks, Trailers, RV's & Toy Haulers

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Looking to get a 3/4T SUV. Just wondering what the mileage is on the differnet options.

I will get around 2000 model year 4x4 etc...

Excursion 5.4L V8: can only imagine this little engine has to work pretty hard to go anywhere. Especially towing a large toy hauler.

Excursion V10. Wouldnt have to work too hard, but loves gas no matter what.

Suburban 6.0L. Better than 5.4L mileage????

Suburban 8.1L. Loves gas?

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I have a 8.1 suburban with 4:11 gears, it gets 10mpg empty and 6ish pulling my 10k toyhauler...... It will get 13 if you stay at 60 on the highway, otherwise it gets 10

I drove the Excursion V10 and thought it wasnt as powerfull as the chevy, also the Suburban has better AC and a nicer layout inside. The Excursion felt HUGE to us.

We drove the suburban with the 6.0 and thought it did well, then we got in a 8.1 and it spun the tires from a stand still on dry pavment.... gas was $1 when I bought it in sept of 02

We thought about getting somthing else, but the suburban fits our needs better than anything else (in our price range)

People with the 3:73 gears get better mpg but I dont know how well it tows.

I have a 1/2 ton 6.0 Sub with 33's and 4.11's and I average 10mpg.

Sierra_rider

• My Rides (6)

I'd be on the lookout for a excursion with the 7.3 diesel. Good power and mileage. You'd pay a little more for it, but you can still get one for a decent price.

Put a 12 v Cummins in either ? I wish Dodge made a 3/4 ton suburban type thing with the cummins in it.

eightarches

2003 excursion, 7.3 l diesel, superchip in rv mode, slightly oversized tires, and get 24 mpg. Pulls a 8900 lb toy hauler great. Using synthetic oil. Best vehicle i ever owned. Great for families.

I also own a f550 v10 2006. It is a good heavy hauler, 18,000 lbs. But only gets 10 mpg.

my wife has a 5.4 in an expy. Her daily trip is all stop and go, never over 30 mph. She gets 10mph. I am going to put some higher flowing exhaust on it and see what that does, possibly some intake work and maybe a programer. Just to see what happeneds.

what are you pulling that you need a 3/4ton burb for, out of curiosity? my dads burb with a tow package 5.3 with autoride tows amazing and rides like a caddy. gets around 20 on the highway not towing. mpg when towing all depends on the weight and were always pullin differnt stuff so thats hard to gauge...

klx250rider

I would highly recomend a 7.3 powerstroke excursion my dad has a 2000 excursion with a7.3 lifted 6in with 38's. 15 mpg at a minium, while not towing, and when towing my toyhauler it gets about 13 mpg.

DO NOT get a 5.4 excursion it will be horible on gas because it labors too much just to move the truck itself around let alone a toyhauler. believe me i have a lincoln mark lt with the 5.4 and my dad has the excursion. the 5.4 s@#$# and the 7.3 powerstroke is amazing.

P.S. here's a pic and you can see my lincoln in the backround through the windows

you really need to consider a diesel if your getting a 3/4 ton. to me, when you need a big vehicle and need to tow, a gas motor just doesn't make sense. diesel has more power, better mpg, and lasts longer. only costs a little more up front.

hellfirebacktire

Agreed. Someday, I'd like the 7.3 diesel excursion someday. Definitely worth the extra cash... Hard to beat the diesel for the purpose...

good luck. I searched for a 7.3 excursion with lower miles for years, there are out there, but cost an arm and a leg

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Excursion vs Suburban

• Thread starter RonaldMartel
• Start date Jul 9, 2002

RonaldMartel

• Jul 9, 2002

I just returned from car shopping and it really wasn't too painful. The choice I have is a 2002 Excursion V10 XLT with 3.73 axle for $360 month or the Suburban LT 2500 8.1 L with 4.1 axle for $471. Both loans are 5 year. The Mrs. won't let me get the Excursion diesel. What would you want. 99 Expedition 5.4L, 3.73,with factory tow package pulling 2703 Layton (GVW-full 6400lbs)  

• Jul 16, 2002

Excursion vs Suburban The Suburban is a smooth, comfortable ride & if price were not a consideration, I'd go with it. With price considered, and if the Excursion meets your towing demands, and you think the ride is OK, I'm sure it'll be fine. The other consideration is resale value. The Suburban will probably be worth more than the Ford in 2 - 4 years, whenever you're ready to trade it in. It's got a solid "reputation".  

• Jul 17, 2002

Excursion vs Suburban I would get the Excursion diesel. But then again I love the smell of Diesel in the morning...OOPS Sorry. The Excursion is a fine towing and riding unit. As far as value, look up a 1 to 2 year old Excursion or Suburban in the Blue Book on line. Without getting into a brand flame war, test drive them both, and make YOUR decission from that. I believe you will be happy with either unit. Next time you are in a campground, count who has what. Steve 2001 f250 CC PSD 2002 Montana 5th Wheel 2 minature Dachshunds http:// www.texasboomers.org  

• Jul 22, 2002

Excursion vs Suburban I have had both. I love my Excursion. There is more room -- its larger than the Chevy. Much more room at each row, and much more room behind the third seat. Its, very, very tall so make sure it fits in your garage. I have the V10 (not the diesel) and it pulls my 30 foot trailer at 7500 lbs unloaded just fine. I loved my Suburban, but I think the new ones are overpriced compared to the Excursion -- and I prefer the longer, taller, wider towing platform of the Ford 2000 Coachman 300 TBS (30 foot trailer, bunk beds, large slider) pulled by a 2001 Ford Excursion  

• Aug 12, 2002

Excursion vs Suburban I have a V10 2wd Excursion I use to pull a 28 ft TT. The Excursion does an outstanding job of pulling the trailer which is about 7200 pounds loaded for an average trip. It is very stable. The problem I have with it is payload. With about 700 to 750 pounds of tongue weight and myself, my wife, 4 teenagers, a dog, cooler and misc small stuff in the vehicle.... it is right at the GVWR of 8600 pounds. The base weight of the vehicle with a full tank of gas is about 6800 pounds. So the vehicle only has 1800 pounds of payload available after that. I cannot use all of the cargo room available due to the possibility of going overweight. I have to wonder how close wohlwa is to being overweight pulling a bigger trailer than mine. The Suburban 3/4 ton models offer more payload than what the Excursion offers. I didn't find this out until after I bought the Ford. The price, which was about 8K less than a comparable Suburban 3/4T is what made me buy the Excursion. I am able to live with the weight issue. My wife and I have had to go on a diet and lose as much weight as the kids gain as they grow.  

Memoryof3theMan

• Aug 14, 2002

Excursion vs Suburban had a e now have a s..........chevy baby!!!!all the way!  

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Thread: Chevrolet Suburban vs Ford Excursion

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I want to see your opinions about which is better. Let's compare the top versions: Chevrolet Suburban 2500 8.1, 345 hp. Ford Excursion 6.4 V10, 314 hp. The dimensions of Ford are more than Chevrolet, but Chevy has more powerful engine. I prefer Chevy. I like its exterior. I like its comfort... I like it all!

"too wild to live, too thin to die"

I voted Suburban. My family has never owned a Suburban but since 99 my dad has had two Tahoes and is now on his second Avalanche. The ride and fit and finish quality were great on these vehicles so i based my oppinion on that.

2005 Victory Red Chevrolet Silverado Crew Cab 2002 Concord Purple Harley Sportster 883XLC "I think the Vietnam war is nothing more than the white people sending the black people to fight the yellow people in order to secure a nation stolen from the red people"-Anonymous UCP's Biggest Chevrolet Corvette fan.

Originally Posted by MrVette83 fit and finish quality were great on these vehicles Have you ever been in a (modern) Volkswagen?

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Originally Posted by Coventrysucks Have you ever been in a (modern) Volkswagen? Cousin owns a 2000 Jetta IV and I absolutely love it. If I were in the market for an SUV today my the first vehicle I would look at is the Toureg, of course, if price were no object I'd go for the V10 Diesel Toureg.... But ya know. Consequently if I were in the market for a car today my first consideration(for my budget) would be the new Jetta GLi. Hallmark Volkswagen down the road from my apartment has a red one that yells my name everyday. The only thing is, I am in the market for a truck b/c I will need one if I get the job I'm in line to get this fall. To answer your question Coventry, yes.

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Originally Posted by MrVette83 To answer your question Coventry, yes. Would you rate the fit and finish of the Chevy as "great" in comparison to a VW? I'm not having a go, I'm just curious - The closest thing we have in the UK are Jeeps.

Last edited by Coventrysucks; 06-30-2004 at 04:26 PM .

I voted the Suburban, the Excursion is too big, and as noted before the Chevy has the more powerful engine. Also I perfer the looks of the Suburban over the Excursion.

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Originally Posted by Coventrysucks Would you rate the fit and finish of the Chevy as "great" in comparison to i VW? I'm not having a go, I'm just curious - The closest thing we have in the UK are Jeeps. I understand your point completely. The point is also taken, I shall now change my statement from great to "Great for an American SUV".

Originally Posted by Ferrari Tifosi I voted the Suburban, the Excursion is too big, and as noted before the Chevy has the more powerful engine. Also I perfer the looks of the Suburban over the Excursion. Totally agree. That Excursion was a mistake by Ford's part.

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V10 Excursion or 8.1 Chevy 2500 Suburban?

87FoRunner said: I could only imagine what the 496 with the 4l85 and 14 Bolt would feel like on the coil sprung Burb (to the guy with the 2500 Avy...Love the truck kinda wish i would have gotten the 2500) Click to expand...

Been gone for a while, this thread got bigger than I expected. BigDan can suck my dick. My wife gets what she wants, and I make that happen. It's no sacrifice, it's a compromise. It's what a man does. You got a problem with that, refer to my earlier comment. How's that for :rainbow:? Yes, we've test driven the new powerstrokes and the duramax. The extra capacity isn't worth the initial extra cash for our intended purposes. As others already stated, gas vs. diesel is a wash for the average users. Thanks for all the helpful info between the 8.1 and V10. From what I've gathered here and elsewhere, the V10 has better fuel economy and does pretty much the same job as the 8.1L. And it seems confirmed that the Chevy product has a noticeably better ride. I need to get her out to test drive an 8.1 burb, but they are rare around here.  

We have a v10 excursion. It is an 03. We both love the extra room and liked the interior better than the burbs. Allthough we only found one 8.1 burb in our price range and it was beat to death. I haven't pulled very much with it yet, I will say it does fine. Not the fastest, but it does just fine. My wife doesn't like the ride on dirt roads compared to the chevy though. If you go with the ferd, put some decent shocks and tires on it. Also watch out for the factory dvd systems. We looked at several excursions with it, none of them worked!  

fj40forlife

BigDan said: What does your wife have against a diesel...????? Too good of fuel ecomomy+++ Less matenience longer engine life more power better for towing better resale better warranty The only negitive thing I can come up with is haveing to turn the engine off when your at the drive thru speaker at Mc.Donalds. It isnt like its a different suv its all the same one just runs on diesel fuel. Do you realize how :rainbow: you sound by posting here on Pirate that you need a powerful SUV but you wife doesnt like diesels.....oh WTF does she know about the diesel engine and marketplace other then they use to be loud and use to stink. Money I can understand but stupidity I dont..... Click to expand...

I have had 5 F250 PS...7.3 and 6.0L. I now have a 03 Burb with the 6.0L. I average 7 mpg towing my trailer with about 7k lbs. From Nashville to Houston, I got 14 mpg unloaded and running 75 the whole way. My 2005 PS 4x4 did 14-15 unloaded and 10 with the same load. I thought about the 8.1L in the burb, but really couldn't find one. It is strickly a tow vehicle and not a DD, so I didn't get the diesal. I had a 2001 Excursion with 35s, stock gears, etc and got 6 mpg towing the same load. The PS does much better, but I like the what I have! If I was towing all the time, I would have the diesal. But for for here and there towing, the gasser will do just fine for the price difference.  

shelljeep said: I need to get her out to test drive an 8.1 burb, but they are rare around here. Click to expand...

Yeah, searching thru cars.com and carsdirect, I noticed there were alot more 8.1 'burbs near the middle of the country. Hardly anything down south. May testdrive one in the next few months when we go on vacation if one doesn't pop up around here by then. In no hurry to swap, the Ex tows just fine.  

Perhaps I'm getting a bit self-rightous here, but giving the wife an 8.1L tow vehicle that gets 12 MPG and takes up 2 parking spaces to be her commuter car is probably the most irresponsible thing you could do. Get the tow vehicle that you need for towing and use it for towing. Get a Honda Civic for commuting. The gas you save will pay for the Civic and the extra insurance, plus you won't be sending so much money to the terrorists that supply our oil. If you need to haul 4 kids all the time, a minivan is a practical solution. Anything OTHER than the tow rig! My 06 D-Max powered tow rig sits in the driveway just about every day as I head to work in my '94 Geo Prism. The monthly savings in gas costs add up to well over $100 after paying insurance on both vehicles and I get to feel good about doing my part to reduce foreign energy dependence. The super maneuverable parking lot manners are a wonderful side-benefit too!  

AERONUTT said: . The gas you save will pay for the Civic and the extra insurance, plus you won't be sending so much money to the terrorists that supply our oil. ! Click to expand...

hybrid-theory

AERONUTT said: Perhaps I'm getting a bit self-rightous here, but giving the wife an 8.1L tow vehicle that gets 12 MPG and takes up 2 parking spaces to be her commuter car is probably the most irresponsible thing you could do. Get the tow vehicle that you need for towing and use it for towing. Get a Honda Civic for commuting. The gas you save will pay for the Civic and the extra insurance, plus you won't be sending so much money to the terrorists that supply our oil. If you need to haul 4 kids all the time, a minivan is a practical solution. Anything OTHER than the tow rig! My 06 D-Max powered tow rig sits in the driveway just about every day as I head to work in my '94 Geo Prism. The monthly savings in gas costs add up to well over $100 after paying insurance on both vehicles and I get to feel good about doing my part to reduce foreign energy dependence. The super maneuverable parking lot manners are a wonderful side-benefit too! Click to expand...

nissancrawler

nissancrawler said: '94 eclipse - 22-25mpg in town 30-33 highway- paid off '04 titan- 13 flat in town, 16-18.5 highway Even with the eclipse being PAID FOR, putting 12,000 miles a year on it, I couldn't make it worth the registration/insurance/repairs vs. the gas cost. i sold the car, wasn't worth it. Click to expand...

Did you factor in repairs, oil changes, washing it, initial vehicle cost, etc.?  

nissancrawler said: Did you factor in repairs, oil changes, washing it, initial vehicle cost, etc.? Click to expand...

Keep the Excursion.  

450sandridr

hey have a 8.1 suburban with 4:10 gears front and rear it tows my 12,000lb toy hauler great plus the interior is great  

My 8.1 tows a 15,000 lb 5th wheel great. Dyno tune and an exhaust woke it up nice. Gas milage towing... who cares. My friends new Tundra get 7mpg towing a 8k trailer and I get 7mpg towing 15k. The diesel does have better power in the twisting turns in the mountains but overall it is eqaul.  

pennsylvaniaboy

Bumping this up....getting very close to getting an v10 excursion or 8.1 sub..... So maybe we can keep this on track.....no diesel. It will be one of those two vehicles.....which is better?  

pennsylvaniaboy said: Bumping this up....getting very close to getting an v10 excursion or 8.1 sub..... So maybe we can keep this on track.....no diesel. It will be one of those two vehicles.....which is better? Click to expand...

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Excursion or Suburban?

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I'm thinking of trading the Duramax Crew Cab in on an SUV. Currently, the only possible replacements seem to be a used Excursion or a used Suburban. Options on the Excursion are the 7.3L or 6.0L Powerstroke, or the V10 Triton; options on the Suburban are the 6.0L Vortec. So, any opinions on which direction to go? I'd rather stick with a diesel if possible, but that's mostly driven by a need for better mileage while towing (8000-lb travel trailer). Anyone have any real-world experience with any of my options? What about passenger comfort (this is probably more important than performance; if Momma ain't happy, ain't nobody happy)? I had a salesman try talking me into a Toyota Sequoia, but I think its 5.7L engine and chassis size are still too small for pulling my trailer. I think the Ford Expedition is too small, too, so again I'm looking more at the larger SUVs. Anyway, any pointers on any SUV tow vehicle would be greatly appreciated. Joseph  

My dad has an 01 Suburban 2500 with the 6.0, 8 mpg pulling an 8000 lb toy hauler and 14 on the highway no hauling and 12 in the city(No mods, but has 265's on it). The seats are very comfortable (LT w/Autoride), when he was looking at buying something to pull a camper but wanted an SUV, he test drove an excursion and didn't like the seats because they were stiff and uncomfortable. Hope this helps.  

There are two Duramax suburbans (or yukon XLs) on Ebay for $79K if you're loaded! Nice trucks but price is a bit high IMO. They've been listed several times but no takers.  

I would go with the suburban. Fords have a harsh ride and the seats are very nonconvertible on long hauls. If you get an older suburban you can get the 3/4 ton with the 8.1 litter engine. Here is an example on ebay; http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Cars-Trucks___2004-CHEVY-SUBURBAN-2500-LT-4X4-SUNROOF-DVD-LEATHER-66K_W0QQitemZ110335997784QQddnZCarsQ20Q26Q20TrucksQQddiZ2282QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_Cars_Trucks?hash=item110335997784&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=65%3A7|39%3A1|240%3A1308  

Can't go with that particular one. I live in the desert in SoCal. The black exterior would kill me! Do you have any idea what kind of mileage I would get with the 8.1L and my 8000-lb trailer? I know; it won't touch what the Duramax can do! Joseph  

Get the excursion w/7.3. Dad has on and it has 250,000 miles on it. Runs like a top and still gets 16-17miles all around. Has enough power to pull most things. My friend has an 8.1 gasser and it is nowhere as quick and its much slower when pulling a trailer.  

the 7.3s are good, just don't get 6.0 liter excursion  

I just went through this exercise: Here is what I found after reading/talking to people: Exped: 7.3 was 2000-2003.5; 6.0 was 2003.5-on. 5spd auto was never offered in the Exped. Also the increased output V-10 was never offered in 2005. If you must go 6.0, try to stay with 2005 since they seemed to have gotten some of the early issues dealt with by then. 7.3 mileage is not that great; might as well go with V-10. Sub: 8.1 was never available with 5 spd. Ally trans; only 4L85E 4spd. Watch out for transfer case rubbing issue. 6.0 with 4.10's should be fine. 8.1 vs. 6.0 mileage spread is probably 2-3 mpg. Only 8.1 gets you full floater rear axle. Not all 6.0 equipped Subs have factory trailer tow package; this means no engine oil cooler. Watch for that.  

Ford's V10 sucks!  

I don't see the reason why you don't just go with a Duramax Suburban? That what it sounds like you want anyway. Take the best of both worlds. Superior performance, best in class comfort and unique. I built an 01 2500 Burb a month ago and love it so much that the other week I bought a 2nd drive train (03LB7 4X4), when I get back from our family ski vacation I'll swap it into my wife's '03 Escalade AWD. Hands down it out pulls, performs & rides better then anything else on the street! Besides I make 420 HP and still get 17/21 MPG Try that with a wana-be ford. Eric  

I can't remember, but I thought I read somewhere that chevy was going to put a duramax in the suburban soon? x2 on doing it yourself  

thetdiguy, keep us posted on your 'slade dmax conversion. thats so awesome!!  

I too have to chime in on the duramax suburban. I have loved mine. Getting 18mpg around town and can pull 12,000lb without a problem. Wife loves to drive it, kids like the room and 451rwhp is nice to have. Over 18 months and 20K miles of problem free driving.  

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The trains and stations of the Moscow Metro

2 Comments · Posted by Alex Smirnov in Cities , Travel , Video

The Moscow Metro is the third most intensive subway system in the world after Tokyo and Seoul subways. The first line was opened on May 15, 1935. Since 1955, the metro has the name of V.I. Lenin.

The system consists of 12 lines with a total length of 305.7 km. Forty four stations are recognized cultural heritage. The largest passenger traffic is in rush hours from 8:00 to 9:00 and from 18:00 to 19:00.

Cellular communication is available on most of the stations of the Moscow Metro. In March 2012, a free Wi-Fi appeared in the Circle Line train. The Moscow Metro is open to passengers from 5:20 to 01:00. The average interval between trains is 2.5 minutes.

The fare is paid by using contactless tickets and contactless smart cards, the passes to the stations are controlled by automatic turnstiles. Ticket offices and ticket vending machines can be found in station vestibules.

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Tomás · August 27, 2012 at 11:34 pm

The Moscow metro stations are the best That I know, cars do not.

Alberto Calvo · September 25, 2016 at 8:57 pm

Great videos! Moscow Metro is just spectacular. I actually visited Moscow myself quite recently and wrote a post about my top 7 stations, please check it out and let me know what you think! :)

http://www.arwtravels.com/blog/moscow-metro-top-7-stations-you-cant-miss

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Moscow’s new suburban rail lines dramatically improve commutes!

The first two of the five lines of the MCD were launched November 21: the MCD1 line goes to Odintsovo (west) and Lobnya (north), while MCD2 to Podolsk (south) and Nakhabino (west). These towns are some 20-30 km from Moscow, and are inhabited by hundreds of thousands of people traveling to Moscow on business each day.

Vladimir Putin at the opening of the MCD.

Both lines cross over with central Moscow stations, as well as those on the outskirts. You can change over to the Moscow Central Circle or the metro (there is a total of 27 stations where you can make the switch). These changes allow for getting to and from the city center much faster and more conveniently than commuter trains.

Why does Moscow need the MCD?

The MCD will add to the function of the commuter trains, easing part of the daily burden experienced by those lines, as well as reduce car traffic in and out of town. The MCD runs every 5-10 minutes with only a four-hour break at night. The reason the new trains are referred to as Diameters is that they travel not just to Moscow’s main intercity stations, but also from one city on the outskirts of Moscow all the way to another one situated at the other end. 

The service runs similar to an ordinary Metro, from 5:30 a.m. to 1 a.m. Directions are available in English, so you won’t get lost.

One important change you must remember is the Aeroexpress trains to Sheremetyevo airport now run differently than before: now one ride from the Belorussky railway to Sheremetyevo will take 50 minutes - instead of the usual 35. Also, on the way from the airport, Belorussky railway will no longer be the final stop - Odintsovo will. But there will also be a few new stations that cross over with the regular metro - in the Moscow City district, on Begovaya, Fili and Kuntsevskaya. All of these interlink with the regular metro.

New internet-capable trains

The MCD trains - in accordance with the Russian custom with giving names of birds to every new train route - will carry the name Ivolga (Russian word for “Eurasian golden oriole”). The carriages are outfitted with bike racks, luggage and stroller compartments, power sockets and USB chargers with every seat, as well as free Wi-Fi - as is the case with all of Moscow’s urban transport. 

39 trains are currently operational.

Free transfers!

Prior to the MCD appearing, passengers wanting to switch between city and suburban trains had to buy separate tickets. The MCD greatly simplifies the process: now you simply need to use your Troika card at the MCD ticket stalls. There are two tariffs - city (38 rubles, or $0.6) and regional (45 rubles, $0.8; meaning cities just on the outskirts of Moscow - not the entire region). If you need to go further afield into the Moscow region, beyond the MCD, then your Troika card will be charged an additional $0.35 (23 rubles) to transfer to the ‘elektrichka’ (electrical commuter trains). 

Switching between MCD and metro trains is free for a 90-minute window, irrespective of the tariff. However, if you don’t check out of the station at the exit stalls, your Troika card will be blocked, and require around $2.30 (150 rubles) to unlock. 

You can also pay via Apple Pay, Google Pay, Mastercard PayPass and Visa PayPass. 

Will there be other ‘diameters’?

Several more MCD are slated to launch before 2025 - the MCD3 (from Ramenskoye to Zelenograd), MCD4 (Zheleznodorozhny to Aprelevka) and MCD5 (from Domodedovo to Pushkino). Right now, the passenger load of the first two Diameters is estimated at 900,000 per day. All five Diameters will serve more than 330 million Moscow passengers every year. 

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Moscow is Russia’s largest city with a population of between 12 and 13 million. It is also Europe’s largest city and when you visit Moscow, you can feel it. The layout and architecture of the city is eclectic, ranging from crooked, ancient streets and alleyways to wide, bustling boulevards, from medieval churches to Stalin skyscrapers and to modern, glass buildings towering over everything and of course in the center of it all is the Kremlin and the magnificent Red Square. Moscow is also home to a fantastic, efficient and very beautiful metro system – each station having its own special design. In fact, Express to Russia’s Moscow metro tours and excursions are some of our most popular attractions that we offer. On our Moscow tours, you will see this and more.

Moscow Tours centering on Russian History

Moscow has a long and interesting history and has been the capital of Russia in many of its different iterations – capital of the Grand Duchy of Moscow , the Russian Empire and of course the Soviet Union (who could ever forget the Soviet Union?). Moscow, was founded in the 12th century by Prince Yuri Dolgaruki (Yuri of the long arms – he really did have long arms!). From that time on, it was home to the Russian Tsars until Peter the Great moved the capital to St. Petersburg in 1703. The city has survived invasions and sieges from the Mongols, the Tartars, the Poles, Lithuanians and Napoleon but has always persevered. Our Moscow tours will enlighten you on this great history and give you insights into Muscovites and their unique culture. Our Moscow tours show you what the city is like today but also brings to life the past. Moscow never seems to sleep and is bursting with energy. A Moscow tour with Express to Russia is truly the best way of getting to know Russia’s largest and most vibrant city.

Frequently Asked Questions From Our Travelers

What is the best time to visit moscow.

Any time of year is fine depending on what you plan to do. Summertime is pleasantly warm, ideal for exploring the city and its vibrant atmosphere, but Moscow will be much busier and accommodation is more expensive. Winter can be quite cold but beautiful nonetheless, and this is unproblematic if you intend to spend most of your trip in museums and galleries. There are also various festivals and events organised throughout the year. For more information about the best time to visit, read our guide

How many days are enough in Moscow?

If you plan your itinerary strategically and aren’t averse to a packed schedule, you can cover Moscow’s main sights over a long weekend. Most popular attractions are in the city centre, and the Moscow Metro allows you to cover much ground in a small amount of time. Ensure that your accommodation is fairly central and book tickets in advance, so that you can make the most of your days. For an informative and well-organised day out, check out our Moscow day tours with options to suit all interests.

Do they speak English in Moscow?

As Russia’s capital city, tourists are well accommodated in Moscow. There should be English-speaking staff in restaurants, bars, hotels, shops and attractions in tourist hotspots, and there are also English-speaking tourist police. Transport services have English translations on their maps and English announcements via intercom; alternatively, order taxis from the Yandex Taxi app (Russian Uber), though it’s unlikely that your taxi driver will speak English. If you get stuck and cannot communicate, it’s fine to use Google Translate.

Is it safe to travel to Moscow?

It is no less safe to travel to Moscow than to any European city if you exercise common sense and look after your belongings. As with every city some regions can be more unsavoury than others, but no tourist attractions are located there. The traffic in Moscow is notorious, so exercise caution when crossing roads. Do not take unlicensed taxis; book in advance or take public transport, which is widespread and perfectly safe. If you encounter any problems, look for the special tourist police who can help you. For more information, read our guide about staying safe in Russia .

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All excursions in Moscow

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