visit sc state house

South Carolina State House

South carolina.

1100 Gervais Street Columbia , SC 29201 United States

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The South Carolina State House, begun in 1855 and unfinished until after the Civil War, witnessed the Federal occupation of Columbia February 17-18, 1865. Union artillery batteries seeking to find their range fired on this building from across the Congaree River. Bronze stars mark the sites where these shells hit the state house. Maj. Gen. William T. Sherman's Federals also raised the United States flag over the unfinished building, looted the existing state house, and repealed the Ordinance of Secession. Several Civil War-related monuments are on the state house grounds.

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Citizens, organizations or groups may use the State House and State House grounds for various purposes and events when the use will not interfere with or disrupt governmental functions.

To request a reservation, a  State House Event Information Form  must be completed and the “Conditions for Use of South Carolina State House and Grounds” read, initialed and signed. Reservation requests must be submitted no more than 365 days in advance of the proposed reservation date. Podiums are available from 8 a.m. until 4:30 p.m. Monday through Friday but only when not in use for other purposes. Podiums will not be provided for use on weekends or state holidays.

• To submit a completed State House Information Form and a signed Conditions for Use of South Carolina State House and Grounds, email  [email protected] . 
• Complete and submit the form online.  
• See a map of the State House Grounds.

Upon receipt of your request, the Division of Facilities Management and Property Services will review the request and send a reservation confirmation if the requested space is available. Please allow time for processing of your request.

For State House Events general information, please call 803-737-1215 or email [email protected] .

South Carolina State House

The South Carolina State House is a marvel of history, art, and architecture. Here you can learn a bit about the Revolutionary War, the Civil War, civil rights, and how the government works all within a few hours. If you're planning a trip to downtown Columbia South Carolina, don't miss touring this historic building and the surrounding state house grounds -- it's one of our favorite spots in the Midlands of SC.

Tour the South Carolina State House Grounds

The South Carolina State House grounds contain a bevy of memorial statues and monuments. You can't walk more than a few minutes on the without running into one. Probably one of the most notable is the statue of George Washington that sits directly in front of the state house (where Main Street intersects Gervais Street).

The South Carolina State House and its blue granite Corinthian pillars make a beautiful backdrop for Washington's statue, which you might note from the photo above, is missing a piece of his cane. The lower portion of the cane was lost due to damage sustained during the Civil War when Union soldiers lobbed items at the statue and left it damaged, but thankfully, not destroyed.

Depending upon the time of year, you will find the State House and its grounds buzzing with activity from those on official business and students from the nearby University of South Carolina campus. We visited in late June, which was the perfect time for us -- there were few people around, so we got to spend the entire day marveling at monuments and learning from the tour guides. Although it was hot out (95 degrees with high humidity), it was well worth the sweat!

SC Statehouse West Side

Click photo to see 360° virtual tour

Bronze Stars Mark Battle Scars

On the West-facing side of the state house you'll find 6 bronze stars, seemingly placed hap-hazard in various locations on the side of the state house. These stars weren't added as décor. In fact, the stars mark the location where cannonballs struck the state house when General Sherman's Union troops laid waste to the city of Columbia in 1865.

Standing in this spot, if you look behind you, you'll see the oldest monument on the South Carolina state house grounds: The Palmetto Regiment Monument. This 20 foot tall palmetto tree is made of bronze, copper, and cast iron, and is one of the United States' few monuments to the Mexican-American War.

Law Enforcement Memorial Monument

Directly down the path from the Palmetto Regiment monument is the Law Enforcement Memorial Monument (located near the intersection of Assembly Street and Senate Street) commemorating the lives of law enforcement officers lost in the line of duty in South Carolina.

The names of over 300 officers are carved in the stones surrounding a granite centerpiece that reads "Lest Ye Forget" crowned by an American Eagle. Leading up to the memorial itself is a blue line made of glass tile, which stands for "The thin blue line" said to represent the line between order and chaos, with the blue representing the uniforms worn by police officers.

Meander a bit further down the pathway and you will come to the South side of the state house (The Pendleton Street side), which is frankly just about as beautiful as the North side. The architects seemingly spared no expense in designing the state house to be admired from every angle.

General Wade Hampton III Monument

Follow the path along the South side of the state house towards the East and you'll pass the General Wade Hampton III monument as he sits astride his giant bronze horse. At 15 feet tall, it's impossible to miss. The intricacy of the statue is a testament to the craftsmanship of the early 1900s.

Hampton served as a general in the Confederate Army from 1861 to 1865 and was elected governor in 1876. He went on to serve in the US Senate from 1879 through 1891.

The base of the monument lists the notable battles Hampton fought during the Civil War.

African American History Monument

On the East side of the State House building, closest to the Sumter Street side, you'll find The African American History Monument. It stands as a sobering reminder of the slave trade and the struggle for civil rights in the United States.

In front of the obelisk, on the ground, there's a sculpture with carvings inside that depict human bodies packed into a slave ship.

Two benches are thoughtfully placed nearby, providing a place for visitors to sit and reflect upon the significance of what this monument stands for.

Revolutionary Generals Monument

If you head down the pathway towards Sumter Street, you'll find the Revolutionary War Generals Monument, honoring Generals Sumter, Marion, and Pickens who were leaders in The Revolutionary War.

Some well-known mascots are named after the nicknames given to these generals. Francis Marion was known as "the Swamp Fox" and the University of South Carolina's mascot gets its name from the nickname of Thomas Sumter who was known as "The Fighting Gamecock".

Just across Sumter Street, you'll find the oldest Episcopal cathedral in South Carolina, Trinity Episcopal Cathedral. Several governors and generals are buried in this church's cemetery, including General Wade Hampton; the same man seen immortalized in bronze, sitting upon his horse, on the grounds of the state house.

Revolutionary War Heroes Monument

A look inside the South Carolina State House

Guided tours come highly recommended, whether it's your first time visiting or you're a repeat visitor. You're bound to learn a few things from the historians who will happily share insights about the ins and outs of the state house. Any questions you have will be freely answered, and trust me, you'll likely have a few! In case you happen to visit when tours aren't scheduled, don't worry—self-guided tours are available too.

SC Statehouse First Floor Lobby

First Floor Lobby

You'll find the public entrance to the state house on the West side (the Sumter Street side) of the building. Just inside, beyond the metal detectors and security station, you'll likely be invited to join a tour if there is one starting soon. If you decide to do so, you'll watch a 15-minute video and head up into the main floor lobby.

The first thing you'll notice when you enter the main floor lobby is the majestic granite pillars at all intersections of the arched ceiling made entirely of painted white brick.

Located down the long corridors on either side are various legislator's offices including the governor's office.

Second Floor Lobby

Head up one of the grand staircases on either side of the lobby or take the elevator to the second floor and you'll find a statue of John C. Calhoun in the dead-center of the second-floor lobby.

Look up and you'll see what appears to be the inside of the glorious copper dome that crowns the state house.

The dome you'll see from the inside of the state house is actually a false dome inside the larger one that you see outside. It's beautifully painted and adds a great deal of interest to the upstairs lobby.

SC Statehouse Second Floor Lobby

SC Statehouse Library

State House Library

Directly in front of the upstairs lobby, you'll find the library (as well as the elevators).

This room is the only room in the state house that hasn't undergone a total restoration, which, if you ask me, isn't needed. The grand library is truly a leap back in time if it weren't for a couple of computers and a copy machine found here.

The fact that it remains so beautiful, even without restoration, is an amazing testament to the work of the original architect and classic Victorian design.

South Carolina Senate Chambers

Step into the senate chambers and you'll first see front and center, one the most valuable pieces of furniture in the building: The senate desk. This desk is crafted of solid British Honduras mahogany and is said to be worth over half a million US dollars.

Center, above the desk in the rostrum, is the largest portrait in the house chambers, which is of John C. Calhoun. The same man who has a statue dedicated to him in the lobby.

In the upper-left corner of the top balcony, you'll find the portrait of the late state Senator Clementa Pinckney who was killed in 2015 during the tragic shooting at Emanuel AME Church in Charleston. This portrait was added in 2016, commemorating his life and service of over 20 years to the state of South Carolina.

SC Statehouse Senate Chambers

SC Statehouse House Chambers

South Carolina House Chambers

On the opposite end of the lobby upstairs, step into the state house chambers and you'll note the large collection of portraits on the walls here as well.

At the rear of the room, just to the left of the rostrum, is a wall-inset case, backlit, which showcases a gleaming silver mace. This mace, crafted in London in 1756, has had a history of vanishing on two separate occasions. British sympathizers whisked it away during the American Revolution and, more recently, in 1971, it was stolen by a disgruntled former Statehouse employee. Nevertheless, it has always found its way back.

Since 1880 the mace has been utilized in a daily ceremony where the sergeant-at-arms places the mace in a special rack at the front of the speaker of the house, which signifies the house is in session. It is returned to its case at the close of the session.

The house was not in session when this photo was taken, so the mace is locked away, hopefully safely, in its encasement.

The South Carolina State House is truly a historical marvel and well worth a visit if you enjoy history, art, architecture, or all of the above. Be sure to visit the South Carolina State Parks website to get all the details needed for your visit, including hours and brochures with helpful information.

Insider Tip

Definitely set aside time to take the tour of the state house. And if you're local, take it more than once! The tour guides are often different from one day to the next, so you will get a different perspective and highlights each time.

Plan Your Trip

How much does it cost.

Tours are free of charge, however plan to pay for parking during your stay. There are parking meters, however these slots fill quickly during busy times. There are parking garages nearby, which aren't too far to walk from.

When can you visit the State House?

Self guided tours are available Monday through Saturday, except on state holidays. Guided tours are also available throughout the day, Monday through Saturdays. For the most accurate schedule, please visit the State House website .

What can you do at the South Carolina State House?

Tour the building and grounds (pick up a pamphlet just inside the first floor lobby for self-guided tours of both), check out the many paintings inside the State House (guided tours are great for learning more details about them), view the many monuments on the State House grounds, and take in the history of South Carolina.

When is the Best Time to Visit?

Weekdays, when the legislature isn't in session (which is usually the middle of January through the middle of June). 

When Should I Avoid Visiting?

When the legislature is in session (Jan - June), you will not be able to tour the House chambers or the Senate chambers and we'd recommend seeing those important areas of the State House, especially on a guided tour. You will love learning about the rituals performed and about some of the many paintings you'll find hanging in both chambers.

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Article Updated: October 14, 2023

Authored by Samara Hart; wife to Kyle, mom of 4, and resident of the South since 2018. Exploring the South has brought me much joy. I love learning about history, photographing places, buildings, food, and things up close. But, my favorite thing of all is sharing the adventure with you.  Learn more about me or what I do for a living on LinkedIn.

Historic Columbia

Monuments on the South Carolina State House Grounds

on the South Carolina State House Grounds

Historically Complex: The Podcast

Introducing Historically Complex, a new podcast on the complicated histories of key monuments on the South Carolina State House grounds -- now available to stream and download on our website or your favorite podcast service!

Stream the Episodes

Since Columbia’s founding in 1786, the grounds of the South Carolina State House have grown from a 4-acre site bounded by Richardson (Main), Gervais, Assembly, and Senate streets into a 22-acre complex featuring 7 buildings and more than 30 monuments. South Carolinians have constructed, altered, and reconsidered this space for more than 230 years—and continue to do so today. In 2019, architectural historian Lydia Mattice Brandt , Ph.D. undertook a comprehensive survey of this built landscape. Her research serves as the basis for this new web-based tour, available below. If you would like to do your own research on the monuments (and to find out more from the sources used to create this website), visit our bibliography page .

This project was made possible with generous support from SC Humanities and the Richland County Conservation Commission.

Historian Level

Explore the Grounds

Buildings & landscape.

City of Columbia Bicentennial Time Capsule Capitol Complex Marker Edgar A. Brown Building John C. Calhoun State Office Building L. Marion Gressette Building Liberty Bell Replica  Old State House Marker Rembert C. Dennis Building Solomon Blatt Building South Carolina State House   Tribute Grove Wade Hampton State Office Building

African American History Monument  Benjamin Ryan Tillman Monument  George Washington Monument  Grave of Swanson Lunsford  James Francis Byrnes Monument  Jefferson Davis Memorial Highway Marker   Monument to Dr. J. Marion Sims Profiles of Robert Young Hayne and George McDuffie  Richardson Square Marker  Robert E. Lee Memorial Highway Marker  South Carolina Law Enforcement Memorial  Strom Thurmond Monument  Wade Hampton III Monument 

Gun from the USS Maine  Mount for Spanish Cannon Palmetto Regiment Monument Partisan Generals Monument South Carolina Armed Forces Monument South Carolina Monument to the Confederate Dead South Carolina Monument to the Women of the Confederacy Spanish American War Veterans Monument Stars and Inscriptions on the State House 

Take the Tour

Online Tour

Walking Tour

What do the monuments represent? How can we know? Historically Complex, a new podcast, peels back the layers on the history represented at the South Carolina State House.

USC flag flies atop SC State House in celebration of women’s basketball championship

N ot an hour had passed from the time Coach Dawn Staley’s Gamecocks hoisted their trophy to the time the University of South Carolina’s flag was raised atop the S.C. State House in celebration of the women’s basketball team’s third national championship Sunday evening.

In fact, a total of 16 USC flags were raised, one at a time in succession flying atop the State House dome, at the request of the university.

The flags will be used by the administration for special recognition of individuals, a university spokesman said.

The USC women’s basketball team defeated Iowa 87-75 in Sunday afternoon’s NCAA tournament final.

After the team’s victory, S.C. Gov. Henry McMaster shared his congratulations in a tweet, promising that the champions’ flag would fly over the state’s seat of government.

The USC flag is expected to fly atop the State House through Monday.

©2024 The Charlotte Observer. Visit charlotteobserver.com. Distributed by Tribune Content Agency, LLC.

State House Visit

February 8, 2024, join us as our state officers and student leaders from across the state convene at the south carolina state house in columbia to advocate for and represent skillsusa. attendees have the opportunity to tour the state house, meet state congressional members, and be in our annual state house steps photo. .

This year's visit will coincide with SkillsUSA Week's Advocacy Day on Thursday, February 8, 2024. Leading up to this event, registrants will complete pre-work activities, reach out to local state congressional members, and set up meetings to advocate for CTE and SkillsUSA. While in Columbia, these members will meet with their local congressional members and/or designated members to advocate.

Class A (Red Blazer) is VERY HIGHLY recommended.

If not available, business professional attire is a MUST.

SCHEDULE UPDATED BELOW - PLEASE READ ALL BELOW IF ATTENDING

Tennessee lawmakers vote to ban geoengineering, with allusions to 'chemtrails' conspiracy theory

The Tennessee state House of Representatives passed a bill Monday designed to prevent geoengineering, the practice of intentionally modifying the atmosphere to counteract global warming.

The bill, which had already passed in the state Senate, covers a variety of technological interventions. They include theoretical ideas about cooling the climate by an approach known as solar radiation modification, as well as more limited practices that affect the weather, like cloud seeding, a technique used to increase rain and snowfall. 

Most geoengineering options are theoretical and untested. Federal researchers have taken only a few small steps toward studying their feasibility, and atmospheric scientists say there is no evidence of any large-scale programs.

On its face, Tennessee’s bill represents an attempt to prevent experimentation with or deployment of such technologies. 

However, lawmakers’ discussions of the proposal toed a line between fact and fiction, with several suggesting that solar geoengineering projects are already underway and others referring to fears and misunderstandings that appeared to stem from the “chemtrails” conspiracy theory.

“This will be my wife’s favorite bill of the year. She has worried about this, I bet, 10 years. It’s been going on a long, long time,” Republican Sen. Frank Niceley said at a hearing about the bill last month. “If you look up — one day, it’ll be clear. The next day they will look like some angels have been playing tic-tac-toe. They’re everywhere. I’ve got pictures on my phone with X's right over my house. For years they denied they were doing anything.”

None of the six Senate sponsors responded to requests for comment. Niceley, who voted for the bill, also did not respond to a request for comment after the House vote. Rep. Monty Fritts, a Republican who sponsored the bill in the House, would agree only to an in-person interview, which NBC News was unable to arrange before the vote.

The chemtrails theory is a loose grouping of unfounded ideas that suggest planes are not making trails of condensation known as contrails but instead are spraying government-made chemicals to control people’s behavior or affect their bodies.

In recent years, some chemtrails conspiracy theories have evolved, with believers suggesting that contrails are actually aerosols designed to control the weather or the climate. The Tennessee Lookout, a nonprofit news organization, reported that Republican Sen. Steve Southerland, one of the sponsors, referred to the chemtrails theory when he presented his argument for the bill to a reporter. 

Justin Mankin, a climate scientist at Dartmouth College, said: “It’s conspiratorial nonsense. The challenge here is that the whole chemtrails conspiracy has blurred and subsumed all these distinct technologies with distinct aims, which makes it challenging to disentangle.”

The Tennessee Legislature is not alone in its effort to enact anti-geoengineering policy. Lawmakers in Illinois, Kentucky, Minnesota, New Hampshire, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island and South Dakota have introduced or previewed similar bills. 

The trend suggests that a mix of conspiracy theories, confusion and genuine concern about the possibility of climate modification has taken hold in the public consciousness — and among some Republican lawmakers. 

“There are people in places like Tennessee and Pennsylvania and New Hampshire who are fearful that the chemtrails theory is correct,” Mankin said. “Policymakers, instead of relying on science to appropriately debunk conspiratorial belief, have rendered it legitimacy through legislative action.”

Josh Horton, a senior fellow who studies solar geoengineering policy at the Harvard Kennedy School, said that as far as he is aware, Tennessee is the first state to pass such a bill through both chambers of its legislature. 

If the governor signs it into law, the bill would prohibit the “intentional injection, release or dispersion” of chemicals into the atmosphere for the “express purpose of affecting temperature, weather, or the intensity of the sunlight.” 

The bill claims that “it is documented that the federal government” or those working on its behalf can “conduct geoengineering experiments by intentionally dispersing chemicals into the atmosphere.”

A White House official said in an email that “the federal government is not involved in any outdoor testing or deployment of solar radiation management.” 

The official said the government “is engaged in a limited subset of research activities on this topic, including modeling, measurements and monitoring, and laboratory research.”

The Tennessee vote became contentious Monday evening. 

Rep. John Ray Clemmons, a Democrat, poked fun at the bill, attaching an amendment that mimicked its original language but suggested that geoengineering “may threaten the Sasquatch and its natural habitat.” His amendment failed. 

Another Democrat, Rep. Bo Mitchell, said: “It’s very appropriate this bill is on the calendar on April 1.”

However, Fritts, the House sponsor, pointed to federal funding for aerosol research as evidence of the government’s aims. 

“There is an intent and a plan,” he said. “I suspect that some of those that have these plans with the solar radiation modification intend to try to reflect the sun’s rays from the Earth by injecting these chemicals, chemical compounds, substances and apparatus into the upper atmosphere.”

It is not surprising that lawmakers would struggle with key concepts of geoengineering. The term is overarching and poorly defined, and many of the ideas that fall under its umbrella are little more than the back-of-napkin sketches of scientists dreaming of ways to reduce global warming. 

“It’s not fully formed. It doesn’t exist,” Horton said. “The terminology is all over the place.” 

The broad category includes solar geoengineering, which the Tennessee bill would ban. The term refers to activities like stratospheric aerosol injections, an untested theory that the planet could be cooled by spraying particles into the stratosphere from high-altitude aircraft. 

Other geoengineering concepts not mentioned in the bill include marine cloud brightening — using aerosols over the ocean in an effort to brighten clouds there — and cirrus cloud thinning, which refers to thinning certain icy clouds to allow more heat to escape Earth. 

Tennessee’s bill would also outlaw weather modification, like cloud seeding, a decades-old practice used in Western states to encourage precipitation.  

Some states regulate cloud seeding operations, which are usually small-scale efforts to increase snowfall in mountain ranges, but most other forms of geoengineering remain in a “regulatory Wild West,” Mankin said. 

Committee hearings about the legislation yielded a confusing mix of truth, innuendo and fiction.

Dr. Denise Sibley, an advocate for the bill who testified before both chambers, suggested that the federal government has been seeding chemicals in the atmosphere.

“There is no doubt that weather modification is taking place within our state,” Sibley said, adding: “We do not consent to the intentional blocking of the sun through the use of particulate aerosols and heavy metals.” 

She pointed Tennessee lawmakers to a 2023 White House report as evidence. The document discusses what a geoengineering research program could look like but does not outline an active program.

Sibley did not respond to requests for comment.

During the hearings, lawmakers also confused contrails with “chemtrails” and asked whether wildfires in Western states were caused by cloud seeding or whether geoengineering was causing a rise in cancer rates. 

Republican Rep. Bud Hulsey inquired about whether geoengineering was the reason for honeybees’ decline. 

“Absolutely — and it is the reason that the honeybees are going away,” replied David Perry, who was testifying in support of the bill and told the committee that he was a licensed health care provider of 40 years. “The microcosm that they live in is affected by these aerosols.” 

There is no evidence to support Perry’s assertion. A Tennessee chiropractor of the same name who matched the biographical information Perry gave during his testimony did not immediately respond to a request for comment. Bees do face dire problems, including threats from pests , pesticides , reduced habitat and climate change.

“What you see is the mixing up and conflation of all these things — geoengineering is the same as weather modification is the same as chemtrails or contrails,” said Horton, who reviewed video of recent legislative testimony. 

State Sen. Heidi Campbell, a Democrat, voted against the bill.

“It’s alarming although quite common around here to see people just wholesale buying into these conspiracy theories,” Campbell said, adding that she believed the bill was a distraction from core climate issues. 

Mankin and Horton agreed that there are important conversations to have about how to guide and regulate research into solar geoengineering, which is controversial even among many scientists. 

“Is the Tennessee state Legislature the place to have that conversation?” Horton said. “Probably not.”

Evan Bush is a science reporter for NBC News. He can be reached at [email protected].

Students spend spring break at SC State House to highlight important cause to them

COLUMBIA, S.C. (WCSC) - The South Carolina State House may not scream “spring break destination” for most people.

But a handful of students were there Wednesday, during their week off from school, to get some face time with lawmakers on an issue they see affecting their peers daily: hunger.

“School meals for all, make the state pay for it!” they chanted in the first-floor lobby of the State House.

The students grabbed senators’ attention Wednesday as they walked in, encouraging them to put money and legislation toward expanding school meal access.

Estimates show hundreds of thousands of kids in South Carolina face hunger.

“I see lots of it,” Jeremiah Morgan, a sophomore at Stratford High School in Goose Creek, said. “Over the years, it’s increased over time. It wasn’t a problem when I was in kindergarten and that stuff, but it’s gotten worse.”

Some of them held signs calling attention to bipartisan bills to provide universal free meals in all South Carolina public schools, which currently sit in their respective Senate and House of Representatives committees.

That push has been championed by Sen. Katrina Shealy , the lead sponsor of the Senate version of the legislation.

“I hope they get the message. I hope my colleagues are looking at the signs. I hope my colleagues hear the children chant, ‘Free meals for schools,’ and ‘Feed the children,’” Shealy (R-Lexington) said after greeting the student visitors.

Right now, a Senate panel is investigating the recent disclosure of nearly $2 billion in unallocated taxpayer money , whose owner is unknown.

Advocates gathered at the State House on Wednesday say just a fraction of that money could feed kids across the state.

“Being able to provide these free school meals is a small investment to ensure that they are able to achieve their academic potential,” Meg Stanley, executive director of the nonprofit Wholespire, said.

Next week, the Senate’s budget-writing committee will meet to finalize its version of next year’s spending plan.

Wholespire, which works to provide access to nutritious food and physical activity across South Carolina, hopes to see legislators renew a temporary law, called a proviso, that encourages participation in a federal offering called the Community Eligibility Provision.

It covers the costs of breakfasts and lunches for all students in a school or district if enough students in that school or district qualify for free meals.

“By our estimates, there’s only about 13 districts that could qualify to participate but are not. Those districts, unless they can show a financial burden for some reason, then they should be able to participate at no real cost to them,” Stanley said. “What we really want is for the Senate Finance Committee to then fund those schools and provide the difference if they do have a financial burden.”

South Carolina also declined to participate in a federal program that would have given families money over the summer to buy groceries if their students qualify for free meals during the school year, a continuation of a program that started during the pandemic.

One analysis found more than half a million kids would have qualified, but the governor ultimately made the call to not participate, saying pandemic-era programs need to come to an end.

Shealy called that decision a mistake.

“Nobody likes to say we’re taking federal money, but let me tell you, if we don’t take it, somebody else is taking it,” she said. “So are their children more important than our children? I don’t think so.”

Copyright 2024 WCSC. All rights reserved.

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How Tesla Planted the Seeds for Its Own Potential Downfall

Elon musk’s factory in china saved his company and made him ultrarich. now, it may backfire..

This transcript was created using speech recognition software. While it has been reviewed by human transcribers, it may contain errors. Please review the episode audio before quoting from this transcript and email [email protected] with any questions.

From “The New York Times,” I’m Katrin Bennhold. This is “The Daily.”

[MUSIC PLAYING]

Today, the story of how China gave Tesla a lifeline that saved the company — and how that lifeline has now given China the tools to beat Tesla at its own game. My colleague, Mara Hvistendahl, explains.

It’s Tuesday, April 9.

So, Mara, you’ve spent the past four months investigating Elon Musk and his ties to China through his company, Tesla. Tell us why.

Well, a lot of American companies are heavily invested in China, but Tesla’s kind of special. As my colleagues and I started talking to sources, we realized that many people felt that China played a crucial role in rescuing the company at a critical moment when it was on the brink of failure and that China helps account for Tesla’s success, for making it the most valuable car company in the world today, and for making Elon Musk ultra rich.

That’s super intriguing. So maybe take us back to the beginning. When does the story start?

So the story starts in the mid 2010s. Tesla had been this company that had all this hype around it. But —

A lot of people were shocked by Tesla’s earnings report. Not only did they make a lot less money than expected, they’re also making a lot less cars.

Tesla was struggling.

The delivery of the Model 3 has been delayed yet again.

Tesla engineers are saying 40 percent of the parts made at the Fremont factory need reworking.

At the time, they made their cars in Fremont, California, and they were facing production delays.

Tesla is confirming that Cal/OSHA is investigating the company over concerns over workplace safety.

Elon Musk has instituted a kind of famously grueling work culture at the factory, and that did not go over well with California labor law.

The federal government now has four active investigations involving Tesla.

They were clashing with regulators.

The National Transportation Safety Board will investigate a second crash involving Tesla’s autopilot system.

Billionaire entrepreneur Elon Musk — friends are really concerned about him. That’s what Musk told “The New York Times.”

And by 2018, he was having all of these crises.

According to “The Times,” Musk choked up multiple times and struggled to maintain his composure during an hour-long interview about turmoil at his electric car company, Tesla.

So all of this kind of converged to put immense pressure on him to do something.

And where does China come in?

Well, setting up a factory in China, in a way, would solve some of these problems for Musk. Labor costs were lower. Workers couldn’t unionize there. China provided access to this steady supply of cheaper parts. So Elon Musk was set on going to China. But first, Tesla and Musk wanted to change a key policy in China.

Hmm, what kind of policy?

So they wanted China to adopt a policy that was aimed at lowering car emissions. And the idea was that it would be modeled after a similar policy in California that had benefited Tesla there.

OK, so explain what that policy actually did. And how did it benefit Tesla?

So California had this system called the Zero-Emission Vehicle program. And that was designed to encourage companies to make cleaner cars, including electric vehicles. And they did that by setting pollution targets. So companies that made a lot of clean cars got credits. And then companies that failed to meet those targets, that produced too many gas-guzzling cars, would have to buy credits from the cleaner companies.

So California is trying to incentivize companies to make cleaner cars by forcing the traditional carmakers to pay cleaner car makers, which basically means dirtier car makers are effectively subsidizing cleaner cars.

Yes, that’s right. And Tesla, as a company that came along just making EVs, profited immensely from this system. And in its early years, when Tesla was really struggling to stay afloat, the money that it earned from selling credits in California to polluting car companies were absolutely crucial, so much so that the company structured a lot of its lobbying efforts around this system, around preserving these credits. And we talked to a former regulator who said as much.

How much money are we talking about here?

So from 2008, when Tesla unveiled its first car, up until the end of last year, Tesla made almost $4 billion by selling credits in California.

Wow. So Musk basically wants China to recreate this California-style program, which was incredibly lucrative for Tesla, there. And they’re basically holding that up as a condition to their building a factory in China.

Right. And at this point in the story, an interesting alliance emerges. Because it wasn’t just Tesla that wanted this emissions program in China. It was also environmentalists from California who had seen the success of the program up close in their own state.

If you go back to that period, to the early 2010s, I was living in China at the time in Beijing and Shanghai. And it was incredibly polluted. We called it airpocalypse at times. I had my first child in China at that point. And as soon as it was safe to put a baby mask on her, we put a little baby mask on her. There were days where people just would try to avoid going outside because it was so polluted. And some of the pollution was actually wafting across the Pacific Ocean to California.

Wow, so California is experiencing that Chinese air pollution firsthand and, in a way, has a direct stake in lowering it.

That’s right. So Governor Jerry Brown, for example — this became kind of his signature issue, was working with China to clean up the environment, in part by exporting this emission scheme. It was also an era of a lot more US-China cooperation. China was seen as absolutely crucial to combating climate change.

So you had all these groups working to get this California emissions scheme exported to China — and the governor’s office and environmental groups and Tesla. And it worked. In 2017, China did adopt a system that was modeled after California’s.

It’s pretty incredible. So California basically exports its emissions-trading system to China, which I imagine at the time was a big win for Californian environmentalists. But it was also a big win for Tesla.

It was definitely a big win for Tesla. And we know that in just a few years Tesla, made almost $1 billion from the emissions-trading program he helped lobby for in China.

So Elon Musk goes on, builds a factory in China. And he does so in Shanghai, where he builds a close relationship with the top official in the city, who actually is now the number-two official in all of China, Li Qiang.

So according to Chinese state media, Elon Musk actually proposed building the factory in two years, which would be fast. And Li came back and proposed that they do it in one year, which — things go up really quickly in China. But even for China, this is incredibly fast. And they broke ground on the factory in January 2019. And by the end of the year, cars were rolling off the line. So then in January 2020, Musk was able to get up on stage in Shanghai and unveil the first Chinese-made Teslas.

Really want to thank the Tesla team and the government officials that have been really helpful in making this happen.

Next to him on stage is Tesla’s top lobbyist who helped push through some of these changes.

Thank you. Yeah, everybody can tell Elon’s super, super happy today.

[SPEAKING CHINESE]

And she says —

Music, please.

Cue the music. [UPBEAT MUSIC]

And he actually broke into dance. He was so happy, a kind of awkward dance.

[UPBEAT MUSIC]

And what is the factory like?

The Shanghai factory is huge. 20,000 people work there. Tesla’s factories around the world tend to be pretty large, but the Shanghai workers work more shifts. And when Tesla set up in China, Chinese banks ended up offering Tesla $1.5 billion in low-interest loans. They got a preferential tax rate in Shanghai.

This deal was so generous that one auto industry official we talked to said that a government minister had actually lamented that they were giving Tesla too much. And it is an incredibly productive factory. It’s now the flagship export factory for Tesla.

So it opens in late 2019. And that’s, of course, the time when the pandemic hits.

Yes. I mean, you might think that this is really poor timing for Elon Musk. But it didn’t quite turn out that way. In fact, Tesla’s factory in Shanghai was closed for only around two weeks, whereas the factory in Fremont was closed for around two months.

That’s a big difference.

Yes, and it really, really mattered to Elon Musk. If you can think back to 2020, you might recall that he was railing against California politicians for closing his factory. In China, the factory stayed open. Workers were working around the clock. And Elon Musk said on a podcast —

China rocks, in my opinion.

— China rocks.

There’s a lot of smart, hardworking people. And they’re not entitled. They’re not complacent, whereas I see —

We’ve seen a lot of momentum and enthusiasm for electric vehicles, stocks, and Tesla certainly leading the charge.

Tesla’s stock price kept going up.

Tesla has become just the fifth company to reach a trillion-dollar valuation. The massive valuation happened after Tesla’s stock price hit an all-time high of more than $1,000.

So this company that had just a few years earlier been on the brink of failure, looking to China for a lifeline, was suddenly riding high. And —

Tesla is now the most valuable car company in the world. It’s worth more than General Motors, Ford, Fiat, Chrysler.

By the summer, it had become the most valuable car company in the world.

Guess what? Elon Musk is now the world’s richest man.

“Forbes” says he’s worth more than $255 billion.

And Elon Musk’s wealth is tied up in Tesla stock. And in the following year, he became the wealthiest man in the world.

So you have this emission trading system, which we discussed and which, in part, thanks to Tesla, is now established in China. It’s bringing in money to Tesla. And now this Shanghai factory is continuing to produce cars for Tesla in the middle of the pandemic. So China really paid off for Tesla. But what was in it for China?

Well, China wasn’t doing this for charity.

What Chinese leaders really wanted was to turn their fledgling electric vehicle industry into a global powerhouse. And they figured that Tesla was the ticket to get there. And that’s precisely what happened.

We’ll be right back.

So, Mara, you’ve just told us the story of how Elon Musk used China to turn Tesla into the biggest car maker in the world and himself — at one point — into the richest man in the world. Now I want to understand the other side of this story. How did China use Tesla?

Well, Tesla basically became a catfish for China’s EV industry.

A catfish, what do you mean by that?

It’s a term from the business world. And, essentially, it means a super aggressive fish that makes the other fish in the pond swim faster. And by bringing in this super competitive, aggressive foreign company into China, which at that point had these fledgling EV companies, Chinese leaders hoped to spur the upstart Chinese EV makers to up their game.

So you’re saying that at this point, China actually already had a number of smaller EV companies, which many people in the West may not even be aware of, these smaller fish in the pond that you were referring to.

Yes, there were a lot of them. They were often locally based. Like, one would be strong in one city, and one would be strong in another city. And Chinese leaders saw that they needed to become more competitive in order to thrive.

And China had tried for decades to build up this traditional car industry by bringing in foreign companies to set up joint ventures. They had really had their sights set on building a strong car industry, and it didn’t really work. I mean, how many traditional Chinese car company brands can you name?

Exactly none.

Yeah, right. So going back to the aughts and the 2010s, they had this advantage that many Chinese hadn’t yet been hooked on gas-guzzling cars. There were still many people who were buying their first car ever. So officials had all these levers they could pull to try to encourage or try to push people’s behavior in a certain direction.

And their idea was to try to ensure that when people went to buy their first car, it would be an EV — and not just an EV but, hopefully, a Chinese EV. So they did things like — at the time, just a license plate for your car could cost an exorbitant amount of money and be difficult to get. And so they made license plates for electric vehicles free. So there were all these preferential policies that were unveiled to nudge people toward buying EVs.

So that’s fascinating. So China is incentivizing consumers to buy EV cars and incentivizing also the whole industry to get its act together by chucking this big American company in the mix and hoping that it will increase competitiveness. What I’m particularly struck by, Mara, in what you said is the concept of leapfrogging over the conventional combustion engine phase, which took us decades to live through. We’re still living in it, in many ways, in the West.

But listening to you, it sounds a little bit like China wasn’t really thinking about this transition to EVs as an environmental policy. It sounds like they were doing this more from an industrial-policy perspective.

Right. The environment and the horrible era at the time was a factor, but it was a pretty minor factor, according to people who were privy to the policy discussions. The more significant factor was industrial policy and an interest in building up a competitive sphere.

So China now wants to become a leader in the global EV sector, and it wants to use Tesla to get there. What does that actually look like?

Well, you need sophisticated suppliers to make the component parts of electric vehicles. And just by being in China, Tesla helped spur the development of several suppliers. Like, for example, the battery is a crucial piece of any EV.

And Tesla, with a fair amount of encouragement — and also various levers from the Chinese government — became a customer of a battery maker called CATL, a homegrown Chinese battery maker. And they have become very close to Tesla and have even set up a factory near Teslas in Shanghai. And today, with Tesla’s business — and, of course, with the business of some other companies — CATL is the biggest battery maker in the world.

But beyond just stimulating the growth of suppliers, Tesla also made these other fish in the pond swim faster. And the biggest Chinese EV company to come out of that period is one called BYD. It’s short for Build Your Dreams.

We are BYD. You’ve probably never heard of us.

From battery maker to the biggest electric vehicle or EV manufacturer in China.

They’ve got a lot of models. They’ve got a lot of discounts. They’ve got a lot of market growth.

China’s biggest EV maker just overtook Tesla in terms of worldwide sales.

BYD 10, Chinese automobile redefined.

I’ve actually started seeing that brand on the streets here in Europe recently, especially in Germany, where my brother actually used to lease a Tesla and now leases a BYD.

Does he like it?

He does. Although he did, to be fair, say that he misses the luxury of the Tesla, but it just became too expensive, really.

The price point is a huge reason that BYD is increasingly giving Tesla a run for its money. Years ago, back in 2011 —

Although there’s competitors now ramping up. And, as you’re familiar with, BYD, which is also —

— Elon Musk actually mocked their cars.

— electric vehicles, here he is trying to compete. Why do you laugh?

He asked an interviewer —

Have you seen their car?

I have seen their car, yes.

— have you seen their cars? Sort of suggesting, like, they’re no competition for us.

You don’t see them at all as a competitor?

Why is that? I mean, they offer a lower price point.

I don’t think they have a great product. I think their focus is — and rightly should be — on making sure they don’t die in China.

But they have been steadily improving. They’ve been in the EV space for a while, but they really started improving a few years ago, once Tesla came on the scene. That was due to a number of factors, not entirely because of Tesla. But Tesla played a role in helping train up talent in China. One former Tesla employee who worked at the company as they were getting set up in China told me that most of the employees who were at the company at the time now work for Chinese competitors.

So they have really played this important role in the EV ecosystem.

And you mentioned the price advantage. So just for comparison, what does an average BYD sell for compared to a more affordable Tesla car?

So BYD has an ultra-cheap model called the Seagull that sells for around $10,000 now in China, whereas Tesla Model 3s and Model Ys in China sell for more than twice that.

Wow. How’s BYD able to sell EVs at these much lower prices?

Well, the Seagull is really just a simpler car. It has less range than a Tesla. It lacks some safety measures. But BYD has this other crucial advantage, which is that they’re vertically integrated. Like, they control many aspects of the supply chain, up and down the supply chain. When you look at the battery level, they make batteries. But they even own the mines where lithium is mined for the batteries.

And they recently launched a fleet of ships. So they actually operate the boats that are sending their cars to Europe or other parts of the world.

So BYD is basically cutting out the middleman on all these aspects of the supply chain, and that’s how they can undercut other car makers on price.

Yeah. They’ve cut out the middleman, and they’ve cut out the shipping company and almost everything else.

So how is BYD doing now as a company compared to Tesla?

In terms of market cap, they’re still much smaller than Tesla. But, crucially, they overtook Tesla in sales in the last quarter of last year.

Yeah, that was a huge milestone. Tesla still dominates in the European market, which is a very important market for EVs. But BYD is starting to export there. And Europe traditionally is kind of automotive powerhouse, and the companies and government officials there are very, very concerned. I interviewed the French finance minister, and he told me that China has a five - to seven-year head start on Europe when it comes to EVs.

Wow. And what has Elon Musk said about this incredible rise of BYD in recent years? Do you think he anticipated that Tesla’s entry into the Chinese market could end up building up its own competition?

Well, I can’t get inside his head, and he did not respond to our questions. But —

The Chinese car companies are the most competitive car companies in the world.

— he has certainly changed his tune. So, remember, he was joking about BYD some years ago.

Yeah, he’s not joking anymore.

I think they will have significant success.

He had dismissed Chinese EV makers. He now appears increasingly concerned about these new competitors —

Frankly, I think if there are not trade barriers established, they will pretty much demolish most other car companies in the world.

— to the point that on an earnings call in January, he all but endorsed the use of trade barriers against them.

They’re extremely good.

I think it’s so interesting, in a way — of course, with perfect hindsight — the kind of maybe complacency or naivete with which he may not have anticipated this turn of events. And in some ways, he’s not alone, right? It speaks to something larger. Like, China, for a long time, was seen as kind of the sweatshop or the manufacturer of the world — or perhaps as an export market for a lot of these Western companies. It certainly wasn’t putting out its own big brand names. It was making stuff for the brand names.

But recently, they have quite a lot of their own brand names. Everybody talks about TikTok. There’s Huawei. There’s WeChat, Lenovo. And now there is BYD. So China is becoming a leader in technology in certain areas. And I think that shift in some ways has happened. And a lot of Western companies — perhaps like Tesla — were kind of late to waking up to that.

Right. Tesla is looking fragile now. Their stock price dropped 30 percent in the first quarter of this year. And to a large degree, that is because of the threat of companies like BYD from China and the perception that Tesla’s position as number one in the market is no longer guaranteed.

So, Mara, all this raises a much bigger question for me, which is, who is going to own the future of EVs? And based on everything you’ve said so far, it seems like China owns the future of EVs. Is that right?

Well, possibly, but the jury is still out. Tesla is still far bigger for now. But there is this increasing fear that China owns the future of EVs. If you look at the US, there are already 25 percent tariffs on EVs from China. There’s talk of increasing them. The Commerce Department recently launched an investigation into data collection by electric vehicles from China.

So all of these factors are creating uncertainty around what could happen. And the European Union may also add new tariffs against Chinese-made cars. And China is an economic rival and a security rival and, in many ways, our main adversary. So this whole issue is intertwined with national security. And Tesla is really in the middle of it.

Right. So the sort of new Cold War that people are talking about between the US and China is, in a sense, the backdrop to this story. But on one level, what we’ve been talking about, it’s really a corporate story, an economic story that has this geopolitical backdrop. But it’s also very much an environmental story. So, regardless of how Elon Musk and Tesla fare in the end, is BYD’s rise and its ability to create high-quality and — perhaps more importantly — affordable EVs ultimately a good thing for the world?

If I think back on those years I spent living in Shanghai and Beijing when it was extremely polluted and there were days when you couldn’t go outside — I don’t think anyone wants to go back to that.

So it’s clear that EVs are the future and that they’re crucial to the green energy transition that we have to make. How exactly we get there is still unclear. But what is true is that China did just make that transition easier.

Mara, thank you so much.

Thank you, Katrin.

Here’s what else you need to know today.

[CROWD CHEERING]

Millions of people across North America were waiting for their turn to experience a rare event on Monday. From Mexico —

Cuatro, tres, dos, uno.

— to Texas.

Awesome, just awesome.

We can see the corona really well. Oh, you can see —

[BACKGROUND CHATTER]

Oh, and we are falling into darkness right now. What an incredible sensation. And you are hearing and seeing the crowd of 15,000 gathered here in south Illinois.

Including “Daily” producers in New York.

It’s like the sky is almost —

— like a deep blue under the clouds.

Wait, look. It’s just —

Oh my god. The sun is disappearing. And it’s gone. Oh. Whoa.

All the way up to Canada.

Yeah, that’s what I’m talking about. That’s what I’m talking about.

The moon glided in front of the sun and obscured it entirely in a total solar eclipse, momentarily plunging the day into darkness.

It’s super exciting. It’s so amazing to see science in action like this.

Today’s episode was produced by Rikki Novetsky and Mooj Zadie with help from Rachelle Bonja. It was edited by Lisa Chow with help from Alexandra Leigh Young, fact checked by Susan Lee, contains original music by Marion Lozano, Diane Wong, Elisheba Ittoop, and Sophia Lanman and was engineered by Chris Wood.

Our theme music is by Jim Brunberg and Ben Landsverk of Wonderly.

That’s it for “The Daily.” I’m catching Katrin Bennhold. See you tomorrow.

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Hosted by Katrin Bennhold

Featuring Mara Hvistendahl

Produced by Rikki Novetsky and Mooj Zadie

With Rachelle Bonja

Edited by Lisa Chow and Alexandra Leigh Young

Original music by Marion Lozano ,  Diane Wong ,  Elisheba Ittoop and Sophia Lanman

Engineered by Chris Wood

Listen and follow The Daily Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Amazon Music

When Elon Musk set up Tesla’s factory in China, he made a bet that brought him cheap parts and capable workers — a bet that made him ultrarich and saved his company.

Mara Hvistendahl, an investigative reporter for The Times, explains why, now, that lifeline may have given China the tools to beat Tesla at its own game.

On today’s episode

Mara Hvistendahl , an investigative reporter for The New York Times.

Background reading

A pivot to China saved Elon Musk. It also bound him to Beijing .

Mr. Musk helped create the Chinese electric vehicle industry. But he is now facing challenges there as well as scrutiny in the West over his reliance on China.

There are a lot of ways to listen to The Daily. Here’s how.

We aim to make transcripts available the next workday after an episode’s publication. You can find them at the top of the page.

Fact-checking by Susan Lee .

The Daily is made by Rachel Quester, Lynsea Garrison, Clare Toeniskoetter, Paige Cowett, Michael Simon Johnson, Brad Fisher, Chris Wood, Jessica Cheung, Stella Tan, Alexandra Leigh Young, Lisa Chow, Eric Krupke, Marc Georges, Luke Vander Ploeg, M.J. Davis Lin, Dan Powell, Sydney Harper, Mike Benoist, Liz O. Baylen, Asthaa Chaturvedi, Rachelle Bonja, Diana Nguyen, Marion Lozano, Corey Schreppel, Rob Szypko, Elisheba Ittoop, Mooj Zadie, Patricia Willens, Rowan Niemisto, Jody Becker, Rikki Novetsky, John Ketchum, Nina Feldman, Will Reid, Carlos Prieto, Ben Calhoun, Susan Lee, Lexie Diao, Mary Wilson, Alex Stern, Dan Farrell, Sophia Lanman, Shannon Lin, Diane Wong, Devon Taylor, Alyssa Moxley, Summer Thomad, Olivia Natt, Daniel Ramirez and Brendan Klinkenberg.

Our theme music is by Jim Brunberg and Ben Landsverk of Wonderly. Special thanks to Sam Dolnick, Paula Szuchman, Lisa Tobin, Larissa Anderson, Julia Simon, Sofia Milan, Mahima Chablani, Elizabeth Davis-Moorer, Jeffrey Miranda, Renan Borelli, Maddy Masiello, Isabella Anderson and Nina Lassam.

Katrin Bennhold is the Berlin bureau chief. A former Nieman fellow at Harvard University, she previously reported from London and Paris, covering a range of topics from the rise of populism to gender. More about Katrin Bennhold

Mara Hvistendahl is an investigative reporter for The Times focused on Asia. More about Mara Hvistendahl

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