kathleen kennedy journey to new life

Believing in Second Chances

It’s not an easy road, but it is possible.

Anyone who grew up in a small town knows all-too-well the challenges you face when you make a mistake. In a small town, everyone knows who you are. They know your family. And every mistake you make is in the public eye and scrutinized.

Bryan Meador was arrested the weekend of his 10-year high school reunion right there in the small Missouri town where he grew up. The local news covered the story. As far as he was concerned, going back home after his release from prison was not a viable option.

“I couldn’t go back home because I was very well-known in my community,” he said. “So I ended up having to go to the Heartland Center here in Kansas City, and my thinking was more or less, I could get basically lost in a bigger crowd. And, there were more opportunities.”

It wasn’t easy for Bryan though, he had a conviction that made it particularly difficult for him to find a job and housing. But, while at the Heartland Center, he met Kathleen Kennedy, who helped him create a resume and land his first job on the outside. It took him almost six months after his release to get employment and housing. At the time, Kathleen was working at the Bishop Sullivan Center , where she helped him create a resume and set up job interviews.

She also referred him to Journey to New Life for additional assistance. He says he’s grateful that Journey to New Life was there, and now that Kathleen is at Journey to New Life, he continues to work with her and check in when he needs employment advice or support.

“It feels really welcoming down here,” Bryan said. “You don’t feel like you have to beg. You actually feel welcome and open, and you can actually talk about these things.”

Bryan says, ultimately, he just needed a second chance, and he found it in Kansas City, thanks to Journey to New Life and the other organizations that serve the community.

There’s so many people out there that will make comments about a second chance. ‘We should always give someone a second chance; give them the benefit of the doubt,’ but no one actually wants to be the one to give that second chance. Yet, these people here will continue to show that they’re the ones that are going to give you that second chance. They understand that people screw up, and all they want is for you to do better. — Bryan Meador

Today, Bryan is stably housed. He’s been at the same job for over a year, and he recently got a promotion. Not only that, he returns to the Heartland Center and speaks to new clients recently released from prison. He shares his story and his experience in the hopes that those individuals don’t feel as alone as he first did when he was released.

“I usually point them to Bishop Sullivan and Journey to New life to get things started for them,” he said. “It’s the level of compassion and care that you get from the people that are here. There’s no judgment.”

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Journey to New Life becomes a Recovery Friendly Workplace

By Bolupe Ogunyooye and Ann McCauley

Journey to New Life (JTNL), a non-profit organization that has served the Kansas City area for 10 years by facilitating the reentry process for those exiting prison back into general society, was designated as a Recovery Friendly Workplace on December 13, 2023. JTNL is the third entity to receive a Recovery Friendly Workplace designation in the metropolis, and the 25 th  statewide to be designated.

Bolupe Ogunyooye, an Extension Field Specialist in Community Health, presented the certificate to a JTNL staff member during an all-staff meeting. Kathleen Kennedy, JTNL Executive Director, shared, “Journey to New Life is so grateful to be designated as a Recovery Friendly Workplace because each day, our non-profit is co-led by people with a history of substance use disorder who demonstrate the power of supporting one another in recovery.”

JTNL assists 90-100 ‘returning persons’ yearly by providing them with a temporary shelter (up to 12 months), employment services, reentry case management, and emergency assistance.  One staff member echoed the sentiments of the Recovery Friendly Workplace vision when she said, “There are no throwaway people!  Supporting people on their recovery journey, has allowed our non-profit to succeed and we have all learned so much – TOGETHER.” 

Journey to New Life is a great example of a program that walks the walk and talks the talk.  The program’s goal is for the entire staff to have justice involved experiences someday.  It employs 17 people, and nine of them have served time in prison.  The organization was founded in 2013 in response to a lack of services for people reentering society after prison, especially those who had been incarcerated many years and have a history of substance use disorder or mental illness.  They also offer services to homeless veterans.  They have several homes for women exiting prison to help them build a bridge between prison and permanent housing, and offer case management, employment assistance, and post residency support. 

One employee summed it up well when she said, “When we support people in recovery, we live our mission!  And our organization has thrived!”

“People who are stigmatized and labeled as problems, when supported in their recovery journey, become leaders.”   -Journey to a New Life Employee

Journey to New Life

Journey to New Life, Inc Kathleen Kennedy, Executive Director 3120 Troost Avenue Kansas City, MO 64109 Telephone: (816) 960-4808 Fax Number: (816) 960-2086 Email: [email protected] Email: [email protected] Web Site: https://jtnl.org Recovery Support Services: Recovery Housing (women only)

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Star Wars Forever: How Kathleen Kennedy Is Expanding the Galaxy

By Anthony Breznican

Kathleen Kennedy ’s job is to focus on the past, present, and future all at once.

Speaking to Vanity Fair for our latest cover story, “ Star Wars: The Rebellion Will Be Televised ,” Kennedy discussed the lessons learned during her now decade-long tenure as Lucasfilm’s president, and expressed enthusiasm about both the new filmmaking technologies they’ve developed and the new stories on the galaxy’s horizon. 

The producer turned executive has a filmography that includes not just Raiders of the Lost Ark, E.T. the Extra-Terrestrial, Jurassic Park, Back to the Future, and The Sixth Sense, but also dozens of other crowd-pleasers and Oscar nominees. Still, she remains eager to explore other worlds. Managing both the galaxy’s legacy and destiny would be a test for anyone, especially in an era when TV and movies are blurring, capturing an audience is harder than ever, and success means giving fans what they desperately crave while also taking them to places they’ve never even considered.

In this extended Q&A, she dives deeper into her plan to create more “persistent” storytelling that expands on the trilogy model, explains why it’s vital to move beyond the Skywalker era, and discusses why they must be careful every time they revisit a beloved character.

Vanity Fair: The story we’re doing is about Lucasfilm’s Star Wars TV universe, but I remember at the last Star Wars Celebration held in Chicago in 2019, you announced that there was a bit of a hiatus coming for the films.

Kathleen Kennedy: Yes. Which is ironic, right?

I guess, since you didn’t have theaters open for the next two years. Was that original “hiatus” because you knew there was going to be this new focus on developing television content for Disney+?

Not necessarily. It really had more to do with recognizing that we were drawing to a close on the saga that George [Lucas] had created and that we were moving into the future of storytelling in the Star Wars universe. We all recognized, every single one of us inside of Lucasfilm, that this was a new chapter for the company and that we needed to all work together to create the architecture for where we were going. 

Simultaneous to us taking a hiatus, [then CEO] Bob Iger changed the strategy of the Walt Disney Company to shift focus toward streaming. At the time, they didn’t even know what the streaming service was going to be called. That’s how new the idea was.

Did it require a lot of adjustment?

What’s unique about Star Wars is that we’re one story, basically. George was always dealing with “episodes.” Ironically, he was serializing his storytelling. He was influenced by Flash Gordon and the cliff-hangers on Saturdays at movie theaters. All of that informed the DNA of what Star Wars is, which is why I think it’s just organic that we made the transition into television.

So all of this coalesced. I love to say that we’re all strategic geniuses—we’re not. I think what we all did, very effectively, was we pivoted. I got lucky. I knew that Jon Favreau was always deeply interested in Star Wars . He was the first person I went to. What’s unique about Jon is his commitment. He’s had a sole focus pretty much on this for the last several years. That’s been a godsend.

When you went to talk to Favreau, was it with a TV series in mind?

It wasn’t an assignment by any means. I went to talk to him because Bob Iger was beginning to have these conversations about creating streaming. I said, “Hey, I don’t know if you would have an interest in coming in and working with us.” He said, “Not only would I have an interest, I have an idea. ” So he had been thinking about this, unbeknownst to me. 

Consequently, once Jon wanted to get involved in Star Wars, I had known for a long time that Dave Filoni [ who created the Clone Wars series with Lucas ] had always been interested in making a transition from animation to live action. I have known this almost from the moment I came into the company and really encouraged him. I tried to create opportunities for him to come over to London, to be on the set [of feature films], to talk to our directors, to get a sense of what that transition might look and feel like. 

So I said to Favreau, “You need to sit down with Dave.” Not because I thought that Dave was going to immediately jump in and start directing, but because I knew that Dave would be a huge, huge added bonus to Jon’s vision.

You arranged a playdate?

Yeah! I arranged a playdate. [ Laughs ] That’s exactly what I did. They got along instantly, like gangbusters. Dave obviously remembered when Jon Favreau had come in and done voices a couple of times on The Clone Wars. But they didn’t know each other that well. Now they’re two peas in a pod. I mean, they just work together beautifully.

[Favreau and Filoni also revealed in their joint interview with V.F. that they had started with competing Mandalorian ideas. That’s why Kennedy wanted them to join forces. “She says, ‘Dave’s working on something with Mandalorians too,’ but it was more the history of the Mandalorians as it related to the work he had done on The Clone Wars, ” Favreau recalled. “So I think she felt that there was potentially two conflicting projects.”]

The biggest challenge is getting all these great minds together and arriving at a structural point of view. We really drive our storytelling through the lens of filmmakers. We depend on people like Favreau and Dave and J.J. Abrams and the filmmakers we’ve worked with, like Tony Gilroy [on the upcoming Andor series]. We put the basic guardrails around what makes something Star Wars, those fundamental values inherent in Star Wars, that sense of place, the deeper meanings around selflessness, selfishness, and the mythology that George created. Then we pretty much leave them to their own devices and try to support that. 

So there’s a little bit of luck that comes into this too. With Jon Favreau and the TV side, we’ve gotten very fortunate that he’s made the long-term commitment. I would love to find somebody on the feature side that would make that kind of a long-term commitment. There’s a couple of people I’m pretty close to that we may get there, but it’s such a competitive landscape right now that availability, exclusivity, those kind of ideas [make it] tough.

Jon Favreau and Baby Yoda, a.k.a. Grogu

When did you first encounter Grogu—the Baby Yoda concept? Was that a part of it from the beginning, or did that evolve as the story developed?

No, that was part of it from the beginning. There’s always some evolution. That character and what it looked like took a bit of time, but that character was something that he had identified right from the beginning. There was a lot of discussion around whether that was something we should or shouldn’t do.

I imagine that gave you some pause.

Yeah, it gave us some pause. But the thing I love about Jon is he’s very definitive. He also gives a lot of thought to what he wants to do. He’s always, always respectful of Star Wars and what it means and not just doing things flippantly. So he and Dave debated that quite ferociously. Both came to the conclusion that—why not? Everybody knows that Yoda is not just a singular being; he is of a species. That could develop into something interesting.

That seems like a turning point. I assume somebody in your position would look at these two guys debating—one was for, and one was against…

Not against. Cautious. Cautious.

There must have been a part of you that’s like, Is this too cute? Are people going to reject it? Walk me through that process and what ultimately convinced you.  

I internalized a lot of the debate they were having. I think what struck me was it was a bold idea. I’m always attracted to that. You could look back and maybe think that was an expected idea—but it wasn’t.

Initially, he was just trying to create a character—the Mandalorian is taking care of The Child. That’s the basic concept. It was The Child. What that The Child looked like is what evolved over time. The bold idea that maybe it’s of the species that Yoda is immediately gives you a context and a potential backstory. That’s exciting in Star Wars because all these things need to be connected. That’s what I recognized right away when he was talking about it. Then when we saw it, I mean… come on.

Temuera Morrison in The Book of Boba Fett

It’s pretty obvious Jon has an interest in that other Mandalorian since he wrote The Book of Boba Fett. Was Fett his initial idea for The Mandalorian ?

No. He was certainly intrigued by Boba Fett. He knew that we were working on Boba Fett in the feature space for a while. So when he started to develop The Mandalorian, there’s no question that there was a lot of conversation around: How do we separate the two? If we were ever to do something with Boba Fett, what would that mean? 

Was The Book of Boba Fett similar to those previous ideas Lucasfilm explored as feature films?  

We didn’t really get too far down the road on what we were going to do in features with Boba. As you know, with development there’s a lot of things that get talked about and don’t necessarily move forward—or they move forward and they hit a wall. It’s a difficult process. So no, we never got to a point where there was anything that Jon either used or rejected.

You’ve mentioned a couple times that Star Wars is one unified story. That’s immense pressure. If Warner Bros. makes a Batman film that doesn’t work, they can reboot and do a different Batman film. But I don’t think you can really say, “The Obi-Wan series we made doesn’t count…”

We also can’t go do something with Luke Skywalker that isn’t Mark Hamill. We’re not going to suddenly go try to do that. The beauty of Obi-Wan Kenobi is Ewan [McGregor] desperately wanted to do this. He has been so engaged in the entire process, and our excitement and reason for doing this is that the real Obi-Wan wanted to tell this story. We got excited by the idea that Ewan McGregor wanted to come back, and Hayden Christensen wanted to come back. 

Just as fans, everybody inside the company was like, “Let’s see if we can make this work.” Deborah Chow ’s done a beautiful job with it. Again, it’s a singular vision. She’s directed all six [episodes]. It has a consistent feel and style to it. 

I don’t want to put you in an awkward spot, but was this an understanding you’ve come to that was developed from Solo ? I don’t want to trash Alden [Ehrenreich], I think he did a good job . But the idea that you can’t really replace Luke Skywalker, was that something you learned from that movie—or how would you put it?

Maybe. As you say it, Anthony…maybe. I think back, and Solo was one of the first ideas that came up when the company was sold. One of the first people I went to was [screenwriter] Larry Kasdan. Larry and I have known each other forever. He was so excited to tell that story. We genuinely believed at the time it was a good idea. 

So yeah. There should be moments along the way when you learn things. That may have certainly been a learning moment. Some people have talked about how, well, maybe Solo should have been a TV show. But even doing Solo as a TV show without Harrison Ford as Han Solo…it’s the same thinking. Maybe I should have recognized this before. We would never make Indiana Jones without Harrison Ford. Having just finished the fifth movie, I can tell you, there wasn’t a day I wasn’t on set where I wasn’t like, Yes— this is Indiana Jones.

Maybe I’m closer to the DNA of Indy, and always have been, than I was when I came into Star Wars, because now it does seem so abundantly clear that we can’t do that. You get excited by these things, and you want to revisit things you want. You want to have that feeling again, and you’re trying to resurrect that. I think that’s what we do even with our new characters. With Star Wars, everybody talks about a “feeling” they have about Star Wars. That’s that intangible idea that you’re looking for.

Alden Ehrenreich in Solo: A Star Wars Story

Obi-Wan Kenobi is about to premiere. Can you talk to me a little about Deborah Chow and where she’s taking the story? I think what Deborah’s done really effectively is she’s explored the interior life of Obi-Wan, because we find Obi-Wan at a point when he thinks he’s killed Anakin. He is at a pretty low point when we find him. He’s questioning who he is. I think she does a really great job of having him find that humanity again.… There’s so much I can’t tell you!

Initially, with The Force Awakens, J.J. created a mystery around Rey’s origin. That’s been something fans have been debating now for years.

I’d heard that Obi-Wan was possibly one of the resolutions—that Rey could have been a descendant of his. I’ve heard this idea was carried along for a while, then it was put aside partly because Rian [Johnson] had a different approach, but also because Lucasfilm didn’t want to tie up Obi-Wan for a different story down the line. Is that about right?

The bigger issue is talking about Obi-Wan as a Master Jedi, and the issue of attachment and selflessness. In order for Obi-Wan to have a child, you are really, really impacting the rules around the Jedi. What does that mean? If that were explored—and certainly there were a lot of ideas being thrown around—but anything to do with Obi-Wan in that regard was pretty much off the table because it flies in the face of everything George created in the mythology. We’re not rigid about it. It’s certainly open for discussion all the time. But that’s a pretty significant tenet in the mythology of the Jedi that we’d be reluctant to mess with.

I know The Acolyte hasn’t started shooting yet, but that’s also on the horizon for Lucasfilm. That series is not as tied into the characters we already know, right?

That one sits right on the edge of the High Republic Era. It’s a bit of an experiment for us because it isn’t building within the timeline and the era that Jon and Dave are. It isn’t necessarily going to be where features are. We are moving into a new era with what [showrunner] Leslye Headland is doing. 

There are certainly reflections of things that people are going to recognize, and it will have connectivity in Star Wars. But this will be a whole new [era] of storytelling if we determine—like we did with The Mandalorian —that it works and that there’s interest. I think there will be.

How important is it to get outside the gravity of the Skywalker saga, moving beyond the characters we know? How vital is it to open up those new realms?

I think it is vital. Just staying within the construct of George’s storytelling, to keep chipping away at that, I think would be wrong. It’s our job to step away now, but still have a connection to the mythology that George created. That won’t stop. But we are moving on from the Skywalker saga. That’s what’s taking a lot of time, discussion, and thought right now. 

Is publishing the test kitchen for some of these new eras?

It is. That’s something we put into motion about five years ago because we don’t have the benefit of just pulling a book off the shelf…

And adapting it.

As we look at where Star Wars is going, we don’t just assume it’s only going to be on television and in movie theaters. That’s another evolution we’re having a lot of conversation around.

Where else could it be? Virtual reality?

It could. I think it’s beyond just V.R. Think of some of the things Epic Games is doing with Fortnite: the ability to immerse people in stories, building avatars around your character that could actually participate in some way. 

We talk so much about the movie experience being something that is a community. You get to hear people interact. You get to hear them laugh. You get to hear them cheer. Well, in the future, you’re going to have that opportunity to experience that feeling and that interaction virtually. That may not be ideal to a lot of people, but there’s no question that’s where it’s going.

So what does that mean for us as storytellers? Since we work so far ahead of what the audience interacts with, we have to be thinking about these things.

It’ll be interesting to follow along with that as the years go by.

It’s right on the horizon. We’re already having conversations around what we’re going to experiment with [regarding] immersive technology. I know everybody kicks around the word metaverse. But in a funny way, George created Star Wars as a part of the metaverse a long time ago.

Because Star Wars fans surround themselves with this thing they love?  

If you can live a part of that all the time…how do we enrich that? That’s what the fans want. You want to enter this world, whatever it is that interests you, and feel that investment of time is worthwhile.

Can we touch upon “storytelling classic”—the movies? I know about Taika Waititi’s untitled film written by Krysty Wilson-Cairns, and Patty Jenkins is doing Rogue Squadron. Do you have a road map for features, or are you still developing that?

We have a road map. I would say that Taika’s story fits more specifically into that. Rogue Squadron …we kind of pushed off to the side for the moment. Patty is developing the script further. Then we will talk about how that connects to the central spine that we’re working on. There’s a couple of [filmmakers] that we’ve been in conversation with over quite a long period of time that I’m hoping will come in and make the overall commitment that Jon and Dave have made. That’s ideally what I would love to see happen in the feature space.

Are you talking about a commitment to make, say, three movies, or are you talking about an even bigger commitment of shepherding phases of films in the way that Kevin Feige did with Marvel?

I wouldn’t go so far. Kevin is an anomaly—an amazing one. But [the goal is] definitely having somebody make more of a commitment. I hesitate to use the word trilogies anymore because Star Wars is much more about persistent storytelling.

One of the enduring questions that the fans have is about Rian Johnson and his future with Star Wars. Is there anything you can tell me about that? I know it’s been said that that trilogy is still on. But it’s been so many years since it was announced. Is that still the case? Can we resolve what’s going on with his idea?

Rian has been unbelievably busy with Knives Out and the deal that he made at Netflix for multiple movies. I’ve had meetings with Rian; he’s somebody that’s come in as part of our little brain trust discussions along the way. He remains very committed to what it is we’re trying to do. He just literally hasn’t had the time to devote. That’s what I’m saying: Anyone who comes into the Star Wars universe needs to know that it’s a three, four, five-year commitment. That’s what it takes. You can’t step in for a year and shoot something and then walk away. It just doesn’t work that way. So it requires that kind of nurturing.

I mentioned Kevin Feige before, and I know it’s been reported he’s producing something for you. Can you tell me about that?

[That’s] the rumor mill. Kevin, I think everybody knows, is a huge Star Wars fan. He’s clearly been inspired by Star Wars in the way in which he’s handled Marvel. I know he’s got a lot on his plate right now. I would love to see at some point what movie he might come up with. But right now, no. There isn’t anything specifically on the horizon. [UPDATE: This interview with Kennedy was in March, and last week screenwriter Michael Waldron told Variety he was working on a script for the rumored Feige project: “We’re finally into it in earnest.”]

Was there anything else about the film side of things that you’d like to talk about?

We’ll probably get a little bit more specific in a couple of months.

In your filmography, you’ve made silly comedies, heavy dramas, historical films, and sci-fi movies…Do you ever see Star Wars branching off into different genres?

I think that’s exactly why I get excited about working on Star Wars. George was inspired by so many different genres. I love that. In fact, that is a tenet of any story discussion we’re having. I usually start by saying, “What genre is this?” Once you have that touchstone, then you understand what the rules are. I think that leads to better storytelling.

It’s funny you mentioned this because George and I [got] the PGA Milestone Award together. The team cut this reel together, and I just looked at it a couple of days ago. First of all, I don’t know where they found some of the footage. It goes way back.

But what I was so taken with is how much fun we were having. It amounted to this moment of realization: I do think a little bit of fun has gone out of making these gigantic movies. The business, the stakes, everything that’s been infused in the last 10 years or so. There’s a kind of spontaneity and good time that we have to be careful to preserve. I keep holding on to: It better be fun.

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Lucasfilm’s Kathleen Kennedy on ‘Rise of Skywalker’ and the Future of ‘Star Wars’

By Brian Hiatt

Brian Hiatt

Lucasfilm president Kathleen Kennedy may well be the most powerful woman in Hollywood, and she’s hardly a newcomer to the world of blockbusters, serving as Steven Spielberg’s producer since 1982’s E.T. That partnership extended to Spielberg’s collaborations on the Indiana Jones movies with George Lucas, who anointed Kennedy as his successor in 2012 as he negotiated a sale to Disney. As guardian of the Star Wars universe, Kennedy has needed every ounce of her experience, never hesitating to swap out creative teams, even mid-movie when necessary, as on 2018’s commercial disappointment Solo . In October, two weeks before Game of Thrones ’ David Benioff and D.B. Weiss pulled out of a year-old deal to develop a new Star Wars trilogy, Kennedy called Rolling Stone to discuss December 20th’s Star Wars: Episode IX : The Rise of Skywalker , and a post-Skywalker-saga cinematic future for the franchise that remains wide open, even as Last Jedi director Rian Johnson and Marvel’s Kevin Feige develop potential films.

Jurassic World director Colin Trevorrow was slated to write and direct Episode IX before you brought J.J. Abrams back in. Is this final entry in the trilogy a particularly hard nut to crack? Every one of these movies is a particularly hard nut to crack. There’s no source material. We don’t have comic books. We don’t have 800-page novels. We don’t have anything other than passionate storytellers who get together and talk about what the next iteration might be. We go through a really normal development process that everybody else does. You start by talking to filmmakers who you think exhibit the sensibilities that you’re looking for. And I would argue that the list is very small — people who really do have the sensibilities about these kind of movies, and then the experience and the ability to handle how enormous a job these movies are. So we try to be as thoughtful as we possibly can about making those choices. I would also argue that sometimes people get involved in the normal development process, and then they realize, “Oh, my God, this is so much more than I ever imagined.” So it’s pretty common that when you’re working on movies, you’re not making choices and decisions that necessarily work out exactly the way you want from the get-go. It’s been an evolving process with lots of people and lots of opinions, and then you try to shape something into what it eventually becomes. So I feel really fortunate that I’ve worked with so many great people that have been absolutely committed, J.J. being one of them. He’s a huge fan, incredibly passionate about Star Wars, and has been from the moment he and I sat down and started talking about this. And the more he got involved, the more excited he became. So I think if you asked him today, he probably wishes he’d been in a situation where he could have done all three — but as I said, these are huge projects. So it’s very difficult unless there’s three or four years in between. It’s not really physically possible.

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What strikes you about how he and his co-screenwriter Chris Terrio did manage to crack the nut for this one? Chris is a very, very thoughtful, intelligent guy that J.J. chose and we all got to know. And again, it went through much of what we often go through, which is endless discussion, lots of artwork. Luckily, J.J. had already been into a pretty deep dive before he was doing Force Awakens and during the process of that movie — it’s almost like an education of getting acquainted with all aspects of Star Wars . Not only just looking at the movies but talking to the number of people that are still around that worked with George for years, understanding the mythology that he created. One of the things we talk about all the time is the fact that it was very important to George that these stories really meant something, that they have something to say, and that they have a real emotional core. So we spend a lot of time talking about that and trying to find the spine of a story that feels satisfying. When you’re dealing, as I said, with something where you don’t necessarily have any source material, then you’re looking for a filmmaker who has a strong point of view, who can find themselves in the characters and in the story. That’s what drives the momentum of the storytelling. And I think J.J. is a perfect example of that. He can’t do anything without his energy and enthusiasm becoming very much a part of the storytelling. So he’s very fun to be in a room with when you’re when you’re trying to break story, because he does have that amazing energy and enthusiasm. And he’s funny. That always helps. We spent a lot of time laughing.

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How did you get to the point where you felt “we’ve got this” with the story of Episode IX ? Well, I wouldn’t say you ever get to a point where you just go, “That’s it.” It’s a constantly evolving process. I mean, there’s still little things that we’re trying to get exactly right, right now. You never stop the storytelling iterations that go on in making these movies. But we know what these previous eight movies are. We know what that story is. So in this movie, we’re taking all of what’s come before, and we’re trying to find a satisfying conclusion. And I think we have, and that’s something that we can only depend on our instincts to arrive at, whether or not we have. And then we have what I would call the family and friends that you pull in and you show things to when you try to get some kind of feedback, and make sure that you’re making sense and that you’re delivering on the things that you intend. That’s something that we’re still talking about right now.

Rian Johnson made some controversial choices in Episode VIII: The Last Jedi. Especially considering its dramatic purpose as the second movie in the trilogy, were you, to an extent, deliberately setting out to challenge fans and their expectations? We definitely did. We’re talking all the time about how we move Star Wars forward and how we keep it relevant. Obviously, we don’t want to just keep making the same movie over and over again. So I agree with you. I mean, I love what Rian did. It’s an absolutely wonderful movie. I think he’s an extraordinary filmmaker. And I really appreciated the bold moves that he did make. I think people forget that, especially when you’re doing a trilogy structure, the first movie is setting things up, the second is usually the conflict, and the third is the resolution. So you’re bound to have that second movie, much the same way Empire Strikes Back was probably the darkest and most dramatic of the three. We talked about it with Indiana Jones ! You know, we did Raiders of the Ark and then we did Temple of Doom, which was dark and created a lot of controversy, and people were surprised at where it went with the storytelling, but, frankly, that’s the whole point!

I love that we have these amazingly passionate fans who care so much. And I know sometimes they may think we don’t listen, but we do, and I thought it was fantastic that people got that engaged. It just showed me and everybody else how much they care. And that’s important for all of us that are doing this. We really look at them as the custodians of this story as much as [we are]. We look at it as kind of a partnership.

Certainly whatever movie comes after this, if it’s unconnected to the Skywalker saga, that’s one of the biggest challenges in the history of the franchise. Until now, pretty much everything has been in some ways connected to the original story. What are your thoughts on that? It’s an incredible challenge, and it is something that we’re in the middle of, and I can’t even begin to tell you where this may end up, because I think you are absolutely right. I think whatever this next movie is, and how it begins to define a new way forward, it’s something we want to take plenty of time and plenty of conversation and careful thought before deciding exactly what we’re going to do.

So you truly haven’t yet decided what’s next? No. We’ve got various things we’re looking at and various ways in which we can begin or not. As you can imagine. You know, do you go back? Do you go forward? All those questions are being asked. Do we stay in this galaxy? Do we go to another? The universe is never-ending. [ Laughs. ] The good news and the bad news. They have endless possibilities. It’s liberating, it’s exciting, and it creates a lot of pressure and anxiety as well.

How did Marvel’s Kevin Feige come into the mix? Kevin has been a huge fan of Star Wars, and he’s made that pretty clear. And I think when he went off to do a couple of the Spider-Man movies, he realized that he could kind of step in and out of what he’s doing specifically with just Marvel. He talked to us, and he talked to the studio and said, “You know, ‘Is there any chance I could step in and do one of the Star Wars movies?'” And I thought it was a pretty cool idea. So we’re just beginning to talk about what that might be and when that might be. But it’s a ways off.

Have you thought about how much longer you’d like to keep doing what you’re doing? I’ve really enjoyed this, I have to say. It’s been incredibly exciting. And just the fact that George asked me to do this, I felt a tremendous responsibility with stepping in and taking care of the franchise, and if there were going to be new movies, to really pull a team around this that cared as much as he did. What happens in the future, and how long and how much longer I do this? I don’t know yet. I’m looking at all of that. It’s been incredibly satisfying to reach this point where we’ve completed the saga and, I think, made a really wonderful movie. It’s going to feel very satisfying to the audience. So that’s what I’m focused on right at the moment — and what the future holds, who knows.

Thanks to Bob Iger’s new book, we now know in some detail about George Lucas’ dissatisfaction with The Force Awakens . What are your feelings about that? Personally, I’ve had a relationship with George going back to all of us meeting before making Raiders of the Lost Ark . So this is a long, 35-plus years that I’ve known George, and I continue to be very, very good friends with George. And I think there’s plenty of examples where people create something that is fundamental to who they are, where it’s difficult letting go and watching that become something different. So I think initially, that was difficult for George — I don’t think he anticipated how hard that would be. And J.J. came into it with such enthusiasm and, frankly, reverence for Star Wars and for George, and had to find what was personal for him. He had to make it his own. Every director who comes into a movie has to make something their own; they have to find themselves in the storytelling. And then that’s going to become a different point of view. And I think that’s all George was reacting to.

He may not agree with every choice J.J. made. He may not agree with every choice Rian made. But he appreciates the filmmaking. That I know. And he so appreciates, for instance, what ILM [Industrial Light & Magic, Lucasfilm’s visual-effects arm] has done in the work of these movies. I mean, that’s a company he created. And he just continually tells me how astounded he is by how far things have come and how, now, whatever comes into your mind can be achieved. And he came down, for instance, on The Mandalorian to see what we were doing — he’s worked a long time with [director] Dave Filoni. And he’s known [series creator] Jon [Favreau]. And he was just like a little kid on that set when he was watching what we were doing. So I see him get caught up in this again, and I think there’s a little bit of regret that he’s not on the stage and directing movies and in it still. And that may filter into it as well. I can’t really speak on behalf of what George is feeling all the time. But I know that he’s very, very proud of what he created. And to see people go on and enjoy this now into almost 2020 is pretty remarkable.

Is there any universe in which George can be lured back for some kind of one-off or just to do anything? I doubt it. But listen, I think that would be fantastic, if he would be interested in doing that again. But I doubt it. He’s loving doing his museum [Los Angeles’ the Lucas Museum of Narrative Art] right now. That’s a huge project, which is going to be absolutely fantastic. It’s a narrative museum, so it really keeps him engaged in storytelling. I think he’s loving that and he’s loving his little girl [six-year-old daughter Everest]. So he’s pretty fulfilled.

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Kathleen Kennedy and Frank Marshall look back on over 40 years of Indiana Jones

Exclusive: Producers Kathleen Kennedy and Frank Marshall talk Dial of Destiny – and look back on four decades' worth of Indiana Jones memories

"It's incredibly emotional, actually," Lucasfilm president Kathleen Kennedy says of bidding farewell to Indiana Jones. "I think for all of us that have been involved across all the movies, it didn't really hit us until probably Cannes, where we saw the movie with an audience and realized that this was really the culmination of so much work, and that we were saying goodbye to this iconic character."

Kennedy and her husband Frank Marshall have been part of the Indiana Jones story since the very beginning. Marshall was a producer on 1981's Raiders of the Lost Ark , with Kennedy credited as an associate to one Steven Spielberg. 

The pair have worked on every single Indy movie since – and now, 42 years later, GamesRadar+ meets with the duo to discuss Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny , the fifth and final outing for Harrison Ford's most legendary of adventurers.

A date with destiny

While Indy is back for one last quest, 2008's Kingdom of the Crystal Skull seemed to put the bow on the franchise, giving Indy a happily ever after that saw him marry Karen Allen's Marion Ravenwood. "I think this was really more Steven and Harrison, they both felt very strongly that they hadn't really quite wrapped things up the way they wanted," says Kennedy of why they wanted to revisit the franchise after that apparently definitive ending. "More importantly, for Harrison and his character, he wanted a final chapter. He was ready; he's 80 years old but he's in great shape, very together. He wasn't quite ready to say goodbye – now he is."

As much as Ford wanted to revisit the character, though, Kennedy says he would only don that fedora again for good reason. "What's great about Harrison is he wouldn't have returned if he didn't have a story and a script that he really liked and really cared about," she says. "And that was what we talked about most of the time, was just trying to get this story right, trying to find, 'What are the values that mean so much to everybody who loves this series? How do we bring this to a closure that people really feel is significant and adds up to something?' And identifying this theme of time was really important. Once we had that, I think he was very invested in working on that."

But while Ford returned, Spielberg handed directing reins over to Logan helmer James Mangold in a first for the franchise. Spielberg was still involved as an executive producer, though – as was Indiana Jones creator George Lucas. 

"They had a wealth of knowledge and experience of what went into these movies before," says Kennedy of their input into Dial of Destiny. "That was hugely beneficial to Jim [Mangold]. Jim was stepping into some very big shoes, and having them there and knowing that he had the two of them to ask questions if he needed it – same thing with John Williams being a part of this, and knowing that he had the maestro bringing back the music that we all know and love. That's what all three of them brought to this for Jim and for all of us, so that it feels like it's a very seamless transition." 

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Time and place

Every Indiana Jones movie needs a fantastical artefact rooted in legend at its heart, and Dial of Destiny is no different. "It's the mythology," explains Marshall. "Starting with the Ark of the Covenant, and what the mythology of that was, each movie has a single MacGuffin – or thing that Indy's trying to find – and the audience learns at the same time. It's not something that we make up. It's something that's there in history."

Dial of Destiny is all about a device from an area of the past that the franchise has so far left unexplored: the Antikythera, a scientific instrument from ancient Greece used to predict astronomical events and positions. In the film, the mechanism was built by famed inventor Archimedes and has extraordinary powers that could alter the course of history. 

"We always start in these story discussions [with], 'What is our MacGuffin?'" shares Kennedy. "All of us have to become Indiana Jones when we ask that question, because what is so meaningful that he's going to devote his life and risk his life to trying to find it? And so that sends us always on a journey of discovery to figure out what that might be.

"Identifying this amazing machine of time, the Antikythera, and being able to go after that, and just the wonder surrounding what that was, and the fact that it was real, and that people believed in its power; that's what's been so great about the stories inside of Indiana Jones, you actually learn something," she continues. "We're dealing with things that we haven't just made up out of whole cloth."

The Antikythera and its incredible capabilities takes the film in a bold, unexpected direction – so much so that even Kennedy was surprised by the finished product.  

"It was one thing to read it and think about where we were going, [but] when we started to actually execute and see it, I remember feeling incredibly delighted," says Kennedy. "It went even beyond what I thought it was going to be on the page. That is the fun thing about making movies, because you do get surprised as a filmmaker. That's where the magic of movies happens. And I think that was very much something that happened with this."

Marshall agrees. "Seeing these things come to life is part of what's exciting about what we do," he says. "It's like having a big train set, and creating, and you're taking all these pieces and putting them together." He adds that his "favorite part" was actually shooting the opening scene, which sees a de-aged Indy fight Nazis on a moving steam train. 

"I just love trains, and we always have a train in the movie," Marshall continues. "Seeing it come together is something that makes it so exciting after you've read it. [You can] picture it in your mind, but I have to say Jim really was great at creating these really amazing scenes with all the people that we have to work with, and that we collaborate with, and the art department, and the scenics, and the props, and the costumes and all that, and everybody comes together – and that's when it's fantastic, when you arrive on the set and here's this whole spectacular scene. That's when it really comes to life."

Fortune and glory

Dial of Destiny is arriving 15 years after Kingdom of the Crystal Skull, meaning it's set to introduce Indiana Jones to a whole new generation of moviegoers. 

"There's nothing better than to be involved in things that have a generational passing," says Kennedy. "What I've found that's so great about this movie coming out [is] the number of people I've talked to who've said, 'Oh, I couldn't wait to sit down and show my kids and have them see from Raiders on before they go and see this movie.' That's what's great. It's the same thing with Star Wars, that generational investment is something that I think people really value."

"We've also found that a whole lot of people were inspired to become archaeologists and go into science because Indy is such a likeable character, and he's so passionate about what he does," adds Marshall. "So that's really rewarding, too." 

It's not just the audience's lives who've been changed by Indy, either. As Kennedy explains, the franchise has sent her on real adventures. "All the travelling we did together, all of us literally saw the world, because it wasn't just the places we shot, but it was the places we went to figure out if that's where we were going to shoot," she says. "That doesn't go on very much anymore in movies. That was a very unique time, where we knew we were always going to be in at least four or five countries, shooting and exploring that – and exploring the world – to figure out where our adventures would go. That's a really memorable part of Indy for me."

Marshall recalls another life-changing moment. "Oh, I'd have to say it's when I met Kathy," he grins of his favorite Indy memory. ("Thanks, hon," laughs Kennedy.)

Naturally, the duo also have unique insight into their favorite moments from the films themselves. "I think the rolling ball sequence for me," says Marshall, referencing that famous Raiders of the Lost Ark moment. "What Steven always does is he challenges his producers – how're we going to do this? And I remember him saying, 'Well, we have to have a real rolling ball.'" Marshall pauses to laugh: "'How are we going to do that?'"

"And so we challenged the technicians and the crew to come up with this," he continues. "We had a real, gigantic, very heavy rolling ball that Harrison had to run from. 'Make sure you don't trip!' But I think that sequence, reading it in the script, you couldn't visualize, really, what it was going to look like. Obviously, Steven's a fantastic filmmaker, and in his mind, he saw all those shots and that's what makes it so exciting."

As for Kennedy, her favorite moment involves Indy's worst nightmare: snakes. "I would say that it's the snakes in the Well of Souls," she says, another Raiders of the Lost Ark scene. "And actually executing that was insane."

"That was another one: 'How are we going to do that?'" Marshall interjects with a chuckle. 

"We got 7000 glass snakes from Holland," Kennedy continues. "I hate snakes. I hate snakes as much as Indiana Jones hates snakes. But we all got to the point where literally, everybody was comfortable literally just picking up handfuls of snakes and moving them."

"When you know they can't hurt you, even though they still feel really eeugh …" Marshall shudders, adding: "There still are several snakes out at Elstree… They got loose and they were on people's doorsteps." 

"Which is true," Kennedy laughs. 

Clearly, these films have given Kennedy and Marshall a lifetime's worth of memories over the last 42 years – just as so many fans have had Indy as a companion through the decades. When asked why Indiana Jones is such an enduring icon, Kennedy and Marshall give thoughtful answers. 

"In an interesting way, I think it's the extension of the cowboy," Kennedy says. "That silhouette. There's a promise, an independence in that character, and instantly he feels heroic. It was brilliant that George came up with the idea that he had a whip. That was such a unique concept, that he would have this whip. All of those things just contributes to this – he's very much a man's man, that's very appealing."

"He's heroic, but he's not a superhero," chimes in Marshall. "And that's what people identify with; he makes mistakes, he's fallible, he gets hurt. But he's also very funny, and he can make light of things – but he's also curious, and he wants to go on these adventures to find things that belong in a museum."

One last adventure

Indy might be an immortal fixture of pop culture, but Ford has been very clear that this is his last time as the character. Does that mean the book is closed on the world of Indiana Jones forever? 

Marshall, for his part, has a pitch for a spin-off ready to go. "There is one thing that people don't know, that when the Flying Wing in Raiders of the Lost Ark blows up, the pilot actually escaped," he jokes, referencing his own Raiders cameo. "And there's going to be a spin-off series starring me." ("That'll be huge. 10 people will show up," Kennedy laughs). 

The serious answer, though, is that nothing is set in stone just yet. "We're in a culture now where I think that that's an expectation from the audience," Kennedy says of potential continuations focusing on Ke Huy Quan's Short Round, or Phoebe Waller-Bridge's newcomer Helena Shaw. "They think, 'Oh, that's what's going to happen next.' Right now, we're all just very focused on just allowing this to have its moment and its time and be complete. 

"And if we go on and do animation, or we carry on with Short Round – which certainly with Ke Huy Quan being so popular now coming off of Everything [Everywhere All at Once] – and Phoebe, what a wonderful actress she is," she continues. "So I would never sit here and say, 'Never say never.' But it's not something that we're in the midst of developing at the moment." 

This very well could be the end of one of cinema's most celebrated sagas, then – but as the last 42 years have proved, Indiana Jones has a legacy that will live forever. 

Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny is in UK cinemas now and arrives in US theaters this June 30. For even more on the film, check out our other pieces through the links below:

• Our  Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny interview with the cast and director
• Harrison Ford and James Mangold's favorite Dial of Destiny memory
• Why Dial of Destiny is the perfect goodbye to Indiana Jones
• Our  Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny Cannes interview 
• Why  Harrison Ford doesn't want to reflect on his old movies
• Mads Mikkelsen is desperate to play a zombie
• Mads Mikkelsen recalls meeting Harrison Ford   
• The  Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny ending explained
• Does Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny have a post-credits scene?
• Kathleen Kennedy reveals new details about Rey and James Mangold Star Wars movies

I'm an Entertainment Writer here at GamesRadar+, covering all things film and TV for the site's Total Film and SFX sections. I previously worked on the Disney magazines team at Immediate Media, and also wrote on the CBeebies, MEGA!, and Star Wars Galaxy titles after graduating with a BA in English. 

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Screen Rant

How dave filoni’s star wars journey led to the mandalorian event movie.

Exclusive: Kathleen Kennedy looks back on Dave Filoni's Star Wars journey learning from George Lucas on Clone Wars to directing a Star Wars movie.

Kathleen Kennedy looks back at Dave Filoni's Star Wars journey and how it has led to him directing the upcoming The Mandalorian event movie. Filoni began his Star Wars journey with the animated Clone Wars movie and series, working directly with George Lucas and learning about Star Wars from the creator himself. Over time, Filoni has become one of the architects of Star Wars television, with both animation and live-action.

Screen Rant caught up with Kennedy after the Ahsoka panel at Star Wars Celebration . Kennedy compared Filoni's start to being a Padawan with Lucas as his Jedi Master and how he has evolved with the characters he has had a hand in creating. She discussed his work in animation and how he has learned and grown as a storyteller over the years. Check out Kennedy's full quote about Filoni below:

Kathleen Kennedy: This has been such a journey for Dave Filoni. To start out, really, as the Padawan to the master George Lucas, and to have this evolve now into what will eventually be an event movie, and to have him be the director that is a dream come true. And he has worked so hard in everything that he's done; the animation has been fantastic. And now evolving, going into Mandalorian, and Ahsoka? Seeing these characters actually come to life, the great thing is that Dave gets to learn along the way and see these characters evolving in real time with him continuing that iteration. So, he's gonna do something great; that I know.

Dave Filoni's Star Wars Journey From Padawan To Jedi Master

Filoni has become one of the most important voices in Star Wars, and as Lucas' protégé, he has grown into an expert on Star Wars canon. The stories he began with Lucas in Clone Wars continue to grow through Star Wars: Rebels , The Mandalorian , and Ahsoka . Filoni's expertise as a director has grown as well, beginning in animation before making the jump to live-action television with Jon Favreau, and finally with his upcoming movie, which will be the culmination of the New Republic era series he and Favreau are helming.

Related: Rosario Dawson Reveals Where Ahsoka's Journey In Her New Star Wars Series

In reality, this event movie will be a culmination of all the series that Filoni has had a hand in guiding, from Ahsoka's story, which began in Clone Wars , to Rebels story, which plays a huge role in this era. Ahsoka will continue the plot threads from the Rebels series finale. Filoni's journey mirrors that of Ahsoka , a character he had a hand in creating with Lucas and who was introduced in the first Star Wars project he directed, The Clone Wars movie.

Filoni's journey, like that of a Jedi, will come full circle with The Mandalorian event movie. He started as a Padawan with the Clone Wars movie, grew under the tutelage of Lucas during the Clone Wars series, and took on his own animated series with Rebels . Filoni would then make the jump to live action, learning from and collaborating with Favreau on The Mandalorian before helming the upcoming Ahsoka series, and finally returning to the big screen with The Mandalorian event movie, which will bring all of these stories together. Filoni has evolved into a Jedi Master in his own right, becoming a leader in every aspect of Star Wars and building the story across different eras, inspiring new generations of Star Wars creators and fans.

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Star wars outlaws : creative director julian gerighty breaks down the new story trailer.

The inside scoop on new characters, plot details, and much more.

Adventure? Excitement? A Jedi craves not these things. But a scoundrel sure does.

Star Wars Outlaws , the highly anticipated open-world game coming August 30 for Xbox Series X|S, PlayStation 5, and PC, promises to let fans live their best scoundrel life as Kay Vess, an up-and-comer in the galaxy’s underworld. With the arrival of a new story trailer — featuring the reveal of major villains, potential allies, and more — hype for the first Star Wars game of its kind continues to build. To learn a bit more, StarWars.com had a virtual sitdown with creative director Julian Gerighty of Ubisoft's Massive Entertainment, discussing Star Wars Outlaws ’ threatening new crime syndicate, the “dream opportunity” of creating a bounty hunter, and how anyone who’s ever “felt trapped” can identify with Kay.

StarWars.com: The new trailer starts off with a meeting among the crime syndicates  led by Sliro. He and Zerek Besh were created for the game. What can you tell us about them, as well as creating a criminal organization for the Star Wars galaxy that can stand on its own?

Julian Gerighty: I think it's a wonderful observation because our job on Star Wars Outlaws was to really focus on the underworld of Star Wars . We worked with Lucasfilm Games on the Ashiga Clan, but we needed another criminal syndicate to make things really interesting between the dynamic — not only between the player, Kay, and the syndicates, but also the syndicates amongst themselves, too. And that's the meeting that you had a glimpse of during the trailer.

Sliro is really interesting because he's an extraordinarily wealthy person who's built a crime syndicate around him, and you can see that Zerek Besh are very different from any one of the other syndicates. So it’s something that, in terms of silhouette or behavior, is going to act extremely different for the player, too.

Zerek Besh is making waves and it's already taking its place amongst the most powerful crime syndicates in the galaxy. And where he crosses Kay's path is when a job goes wrong and Kay finds herself on the run from one of the largest bounties ever placed on anybody in the galaxy. And that's where we discover that dynamic there.

Julian Gerighty: Yeah, I think it always starts with intention. And again, I can't overstate how much the collaboration with Lucasfilm Games is important in this.

It starts with an intention and this idea that every cantina needs to have an identity. If we are just creating a bar, it's not that interesting, but maybe an initial inspiration of a Film Noir jazz bar within a space station is going to take on a life of its own. A Korean barbecue joint on Kijimi, using thermal vents to heat up the grills, that becomes really interesting. Working with different things that make it incredibly well integrated within the world with a very different identity from anything that you've seen in Star Wars before, but through the lens of something that feels familiar and yet strange. So we are really leaning into what space sci-fi and Star Wars allows us to do. Having a huge tree in the middle of this bar in Akiva, that feels really different and it feels very Star Wars at the same time.

StarWars.com: Do you know how many design iterations it went through?

Julian Gerighty: I think we came to the overall shape and the overall spirit of what it was, which believe it or not, was a cross between a turtle and a pickup truck. And you take those elements, you fuse them together with, what does it mean? It can carry a lot. It's tough, it's rugged, it's a solid piece of machinery. So that first iteration really came quite fast in my memory, but it's the refinement of it that took a long, long time. It's the placement of the engines, it's how they open up when the ship accelerates. It's what sort of cans or jets turn on when the ship lands, how the landing pad spreads outwards when it touches down, how they fold back in. All of those little things took a huge amount of iterations and I would say hundreds is absolutely what we ended up with.

StarWars.com: What I really like about the Trailblazer is just how simple a shape it is. It doesn't look like the Millennium Falcon , it doesn't look like the Ghost . It stands unique as Kay's ship, and I think that that's why it's successful.

Julian Gerighty: Again, if there's one thing that this project has taught me on Star Wars is the strength and the power of very simple shapes. X-wing , A-wing , AT-ST — all of these are incredibly memorable, and if you just draw a silhouette, you're going to be able to tell what that is. That's what you are aiming for, and it's extremely difficult to get to that, plus the refinement of how it behaves and how it's portrayed in an animated sequence, if you will. The complexity of gameplay comes afterwards.

Julian Gerighty: It's another great question. I think we've all felt trapped at one time or another, and this is the spirit of being able to completely open up and have the world or the galaxy as your oyster. Completely free. Free to decide what to do, where to do it, and who to do it with. That's the starting point, is that desire. And the end point is that opening up and the possibilities that brings. That was always the real thread and the theme that we were looking for. Apart from that, it's the rollercoaster ride that you've just lived throughout the different locations that we've taken you through.

StarWars.com: One more question, and this is just something I've been thinking about lately. I have a 9-year-old son and I have a nephew who's 15. Video games have been one of the main things that have turned them into Star Wars fans. I think the importance of games to culture is at the highest it's ever been. And I'm wondering if you think about that as you're working on Star Wars  Outlaws , and the impact that it potentially could have in bringing in new fans and introducing them to Star Wars .

Julian Gerighty: It's super interesting. I hope it's the case. I think that the one thing that video games allows compared to other media is agency, is decision making, is the freedom of decision and really, truly being entertained while making those decisions. And that's why we wanted to create that open-world experience as well, which is what we talked about last time. The thematics are very much linked to the player fantasy, being an outlaw, but also the potential of video games as a medium.

This conversation has been edited and condensed for clarity.

Dan Brooks is a writer and the senior editor of StarWars.com. Follow him on Twitter at  @dan_brooks and Instagram at  @therealdanbrooks .

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