cruise speed c172

Simple Flying

The most produced aircraft: what is the cessna 172's cruise speed.

The popular piston plane has benefited from speed enhancements over the decades.

The Cessna 172 Skyhawk is famous for being the most-produced aircraft of all time, with over 45,000 airframes built since the first rolled off the production line in 1956. This legendary general aviation light aircraft will go down in history as one of the most reliable, efficient, and versatile planes ever built, capable of performing all kinds of roles.

Interestingly, despite major advancements in technology and design since the 172 was released, the plane's cruise speed hasn't changed too much over the decades. Instead, upgrades to the aircraft have tended to boost its reliability, avionics, and safety. Nonetheless, modern Cessna 172 models are still almost 20% faster than the original, so some improvements have been made in this department.

Cessna 172 cruise speed

The current in-production model of the 172 series is the Cessna 172S Skyhawk SP, offering modern upgrades like a glass cockpit, Garmin G1000 NXi avionics suite and a 180-horsepower Lycoming IO-360-L2A engine. Compared to the previous model, the 172R, the 172S features an additional 20HP, and the Garmin G1000 suite comes as standard, among other tweaks.

As per Textron Aviation, the aircraft's maximum cruise speed is 124 knots (142 mph or 230 km/h), with a maximum range of 640 NM (1,185 km) and a climb rate of up to 730 fpm. However, this range can change depending on engine power, altitude, and weight of aircraft.

Discover more aviation news with Simple Flying.

Modest speed increases

As mentioned earlier, the Skyhawk's cruise speed has risen modestly over the decades, but improvements haven't been dramatic given the limitations of a single-engine piston aircraft. The first Cessna 172 model was fitted with a 145HP Continental O-300 engine before an upgrade to the Lycoming O-320 around a decade later.

According to 172guide , the first Cessna 172 had a cruise speed of 108 knots (132 mph or 212 km/h), which was gradually increased in future iterations:

• 172C (1962): Continental O-300-C - 114 knots at 7,000 ft altitude
• 172I (1968): Lycoming O-320-E2D - 114 knots at 9,000 ft altitude
• 172N (1979): Lycoming O-320-H2AD - 122 knots at 8,000 ft altitude

Let's compare some of the specs of the first Cessna 172 with the in-production 172S:

A Look At Why The Cessna 172 Is The Best Selling Aircraft In The World

Against the competition.

The 172 is well ahead of other trainers in terms of aircraft built and sold. However, when looking at its specs compared to those of its rivals, it doesn't outshine them in all departments. In fact, if we look at cruise speed alone (at 75% engine power), it is sometimes slightly slower than most of its counterparts.

Piper PA-28 Cherokee

Take the Piper PA-28 Cherokee, for example, which is generally considered the main rival to the Cessna 172 series. Entering service in the early 1960s, the PA-28 initially offered a higher cruise speed of over 120 knots, although the current in-production Piper's have a similar cruise speed to the Cessna 172S.

Diamond DA40

The Diamond DA40 is, without a doubt, a faster aircraft than the 172, with an initial cruise speed of 145 knots when it came out in 1997. The most up-to-date variant - the DA40 NG - is powered by a 168 hp Austro Engine AE300, which offers a cruise speed of 154 knots, as well as a higher service ceiling of 16,000ft.

Beechcraft Musketeer

The Beechcraft Musketeer is another popular trainer aircraft and one of the few that is slower than the 172. Take the Beechcraft Musketeer Sport II, for example, which has a cruise speed of 108 knots, well below the 172S' 124 knots, or the Musketeer Custom II, which offers a cruise speed of 102 knots.

Comparing the 172 and 182

Simple Flying recently took a deep dive into the differences between the 172 Skyhawk and the larger Cessna 182 Skylane , another popular trainer and general aviation aircraft. The Skylane is Cessna's second most popular aircraft still in production behind the 172 and a feasible alternative for flight schools and private owners.

The 182 features a more powerful Lycoming IO-540-AB1A5 engine, giving it a cruise speed of 145 knots - on top of this, its extra fuel capacity gives it almost 50% more range than the 172 at 930 NM.

A training favorite

The Cessna 172's ease of operation makes it a clear favorite for student pilots, and you can find a Cessna 172 at just about every flight school in the world. Cessna estimates an average of 75 flight hours to earn a private license.

5 Reasons The Cessna 172 Is A Favorite With Flight Training Schools

The plane also boasts exceptional reliability and an immaculate safety record, with a fatality rate of 0.56 fatal crashes per 100,000 flying hours, which is less than half the industry standard of 1.2-1.4 per 100,000.

Have you ever flown a Cessna 172? Let us know your stories in the comments.

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Cessna 182 vs. 172 – Cruise Speed, Cabin Size & More

In general aviation, few names resonate as powerfully as Cessna. Founded in 1927 by Clyde Cessna, the Cessna Aircraft Company has become synonymous with reliability, innovation, and a commitment to pilot-centric design. From small, single-engine planes to larger, more complex aircraft, Cessna has consistently set the standard for what a private aircraft should be.

For many pilots, both novice and experienced, the choice of aircraft often boils down to specific models that best fit their needs. Among Cessna’s vast fleet, the Cessna 172 and 182 stand out as two of the most popular and widely recognized models. While they may seem similar at a glance, understanding the nuanced differences between these two aircraft can be crucial for potential buyers, flight schools, and aviation enthusiasts alike.

In this article, we’ll delve deep into the specifics of the Cessna 172 versus 182, comparing their cruise speeds, cabin sizes, and other vital features. By the end, you’ll have a clear understanding of what sets these two iconic planes apart and which might be the right fit for your aviation journey.

Cessna 172 – Brief History and Development

The Cessna 172, affectionately known as the “Skyhawk,” first took to the skies in 1955. Designed as a successor to the earlier Cessna 170, the 172 quickly established itself as a reliable and easy-to-fly aircraft, making it an instant favorite among flight schools and private owners. 

Over the decades, the Skyhawk has undergone various modifications and improvements, but its core design philosophy has remained consistent: to provide a safe, dependable, and efficient flying experience.

Key Features and Specifications of the Cessna 172

• Engine: The Cessna 172 is typically powered by a Lycoming IO-360-L2A engine, producing 160 horsepower. This engine is renowned for its reliability and longevity.
• Wingspan: With a wingspan of 36 feet 1 inch, the 172 offers stability in various flight conditions.
• Weight: The standard empty weight of a Cessna 172 is around 1,691 pounds, with a maximum takeoff weight of 2,450 pounds.
• Seating: Designed to seat four passengers comfortably, the 172’s cabin is spacious and functional, with clear visibility from the cockpit and ample storage for luggage.
• Avionics: Modern Cessna 172s come equipped with state-of-the-art avionics, including the Garmin G1000 NXi flight deck, providing pilots with intuitive controls and comprehensive flight data.

Cessna 182 – History and Development

Introduced a few years after the 172, the Cessna 182, commonly referred to as the “Skylane,” made its debut in 1956. While the 172 was already a success story, Cessna aimed to cater to a market segment that desired more power, range, and carrying capacity. 

Over the years, the 182 has seen numerous upgrades, from its engine to avionics, ensuring it remains a top-tier choice for pilots seeking more “oomph” in their aircraft.

Key Features and Specifications of the Cessna 182

• Engine: The heart of the Cessna 182 is its powerful engine. Most modern Skylanes have a Lycoming IO-540-AB1A5 engine, boasting a robust 230 horsepower, significantly more than the 172’s engine.
• Wingspan: The 182 features a wingspan of 36 feet, similar to the 172, but its design nuances cater to its increased power and weight.
• Weight: The standard empty weight of the Cessna 182 is approximately 1,970 pounds, with a maximum takeoff weight reaching up to 3,100 pounds, allowing for a greater payload.
• Seating: While designed for four passengers like the 172, the 182’s cabin offers more space, ensuring added comfort during longer flights.
• Avionics: The Cessna 182 doesn’t skimp on technology. Modern models come equipped with advanced avionics suites, such as the Garmin G1000 NXi, ensuring pilots have the best tools at their fingertips.

How the Two Compare: Cessna 172 (Skyhawk) vs. Cessna 182 (Skylane)

Cruise speed – cessna 172 vs 182.

Cessna 172 Skyhawk – The Cessna 172, with its dependable Lycoming IO-360-L2A engine, boasts a cruise speed of approximately 125 knots. 

This speed is ideal for general aviation activities, from training flights to leisurely cross-country journeys.  The 172’s cruise speed ensures that pilots can reach their ultimate destinations on time while benefiting from the aircraft’s fuel efficiency.

Cessna 182 Skylane – The Cessna 182, powered by the more robust Lycoming IO-540-AB1A5 engine, offers a faster cruise speed than the 172.

While the exact speed can vary based on specific models, configurations, and conditions, the 182 typically cruises at rates exceeding 172 by about 10-20 knots.

Cruise Speed Winner: Cessna 182 Skylane. The increased speed makes the 182 a preferred choice for pilots who often undertake longer trips or prioritize reduced travel time.

Cabin Size & Space

Cessna 172 Skyhawk – The Cessna 172 is designed with practicality and efficiency in mind. Its cabin can comfortably accommodate four passengers, making it suitable for personal trips, flight training, or short business journeys.

While the space inside the 172 is functional, offering clear visibility from the cockpit and a reasonable amount of storage for luggage, it’s tailored more towards shorter flights where extended comfort isn’t the primary concern.

Cessna 182 Skylane – The Cessna 182 takes cabin comfort and space to the next level. Also designed to seat four passengers, the Skylane’s cabin is noticeably more spacious, providing added legroom, headroom, and overall comfort.

This becomes especially significant during more extended flights, where the additional space can make a considerable difference in passenger comfort.

Cabin Size & Space Winner: Cessna 182 Skylane. Beyond just seating, the 182’s larger cabin also means more room for luggage, equipment, or specialized gear for various missions.

Upfront Cost

Cessna 172 Skyhawk – The Cessna 172 Skyhawk is favored for its affordability, especially among flight schools, new pilots, and private owners. When comparing initial purchase prices, the 172 typically costs less than the 182.

Cessna 182 Skylane – The Cessna 182 Skylane, with its enhanced features and more powerful engine, comes with a higher price tag than the 172.

Upfront Cost Winner: Cessna 172 Skyhawk.

Maintenance & Reliability

Cessna 172 Skyhawk – The Cessna 172’s engine, the Lycoming IO-360-L2A, is known for its reliability. This means fewer unexpected maintenance trips and cost savings in the long run.

Parts for the 172 are widely available and tend to be more affordable. Routine maintenance for the 172 is also generally less expensive.

Cessna 182 Skylane – The 182’s Lycoming IO-540-AB1A5 engine, while robust and reliable, is also more complex. This can sometimes lead to higher maintenance costs, especially if specialized work is required.

Given the 182’s advanced systems, specific maintenance tasks might be more intricate and, consequently, more expensive.

Maintenance & Reliability Winner: Cessna 172 Skyhawk .

Performance

Cessna 172 Skyhawk – The Cessna 172’s Lycoming IO-360-L2A engine, producing 160 horsepower, ensures steady and reliable performance. Its design prioritizes stability, making it an excellent choice for novice pilots.

Cessna 182 Skylane – The 182’s Lycoming IO-540-AB1A5 engine, boasting 230 horsepower, provides a noticeable boost in performance, translating to faster climbing rates and the ability to cruise at higher altitudes. 

Performance Winner: Cessna 182 Skylane.

Cessna 172 Skyhawk – The Skyhawk’s fuel efficiency, combined with its standard fuel capacity, allows for a range of approximately 800 miles, making it suitable for regional trips and day-long excursions.

Cessna 182 Skylane – The Skylane shines in range due to its larger fuel capacity and engine efficiency, allowing for a range exceeding 900 miles under optimal conditions. This extended range makes the 182 an ideal choice for longer cross-country flights or business trips.

Range Winner: Cessna 182 Skylane.

Landing Gear

Cessna 172 Skyhawk – The Cessna 172 features a fixed tricycle landing gear. This design simplifies operations and reduces maintenance costs since there are no retractable parts.

The fixed gear is also beneficial for student pilots as it’s less complex to operate.

Cessna 182 Skylane – The Cessna 182 primarily has a fixed tricycle landing gear, similar to the 172. However, specific models or modifications might offer retractable gear options.

While retractable gear can improve aerodynamics and cruise speed, it also introduces added complexity and potential maintenance considerations.

Landing Gear Winner: Depends.

Fuel Efficiency

Cessna 172 Skyhawk – The Cessna 172 consumes approximately 8-10 gallons per hour, depending on flight conditions and operations.

Its fuel efficiency makes it a popular choice for flight training and short to medium-haul trips. The aircraft’s design and engine tuning balance performance and fuel economy.

Cessna 182 Skylane – The Cessna 182, given its larger engine and enhanced performance capabilities, has a slightly higher fuel consumption rate, typically around 10-12 gallons per hour.

While it might consume more fuel, the 182 compensates by offering increased range, speed, and payload capacity, making it suitable for longer journeys or missions requiring added power.

Fuel Efficiency Winner: Depends.

Cessna 172 vs. 182 – Key Takeaways

Drawing a comparison between the Cessna 172 Skyhawk and the Cessna 182 Skylane is intriguing, given their shared lineage from the renowned Cessna brand. Both aircraft, designed to accommodate four passengers and equipped with state-of-the-art avionics, are testaments to Cessna’s commitment to quality, reliability, and aviation excellence.

However, diving deeper into its capabilities, the 182 Skylane emerges as the more robust contender, boasting superior power, cruising speed, cabin space, and range. This doesn’t diminish the 172 Skyhawk’s merits, which shines in its cost-effectiveness. Not only is it more affordable to acquire, but its maintenance costs are also commendably lower, making it a cost-efficient choice for similar journeys.

The pivotal question for potential buyers revolves around their intended use of the aircraft. For those prioritizing distance, altitude, and speed, the C182 stands out. Yet, the C172 compensates for its performance differences with its cost benefits. Ultimately, the decision hinges on individual preferences and needs, whether for personal trips, training, extended journeys, or versatile missions.

Additional ePlane Reading to Aid In Your Cessna Aircraft Maintenance

Regardless of whether you opt for a C182 or C172, there’s no avoiding ongoing maintenance and parts needs. The following articles from ePlane can help you acquire the needed components with confidence:

• EMB 170 vs 175- Cruise Speed, Cabin Size & More
• Aircraft Parts Inventory Management & 8 Mistakes to Avoid
• 5 Powerful Tips for Selling Aircraft Parts with ePlane
• 5 Critical Mistakes to Avoid When Planning Your Aircraft Repair
• AI in Aviation: The Future of Buying & Selling Parts

Written by Michael Olusoji

Michael Olusoji is a distinguished aviation writer with over five years of in-depth expertise. His comprehensive research and analytical prowess have culminated in a myriad of articles that dissect the intricate facets of the aviation sector, particularly the engineering nuances of aircraft components.

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What Is Cruise Climb Speed, And When Should You Use It?

• By Boldmethod

Vcc is commonly called "enroute climb speed", and it's always faster than Vy. Unless a steep climb is required to avoid terrain or to fly a departure procedure, cruise climb speeds allow you to fly faster, with a relatively small loss of climb performance.

Once you've reached pattern altitude or 1,000', transitioning to cruise climb speed might be a good idea.

So what aircraft have a cruise climb speed, and what types of aircraft benefit most from it? We'll get to that in a bit, but first...

Benefits of flying Vcc

Cruise climb helps you in three ways. First, increased airflow keeps your engine cooler in the climb. That's especially important for high-performance piston aircraft.

Second, cruise climb gets you to your destination faster. You do lose some climb performance, but in most aircraft, it's an acceptable (and sometimes almost imperceivable) loss of climb performance, in exchange for faster forward airspeed in the climb.

And finally, you get better forward visibility in a cruise climb. After all, you're supposed to be looking out the window for traffic. Plus, a reduced pitch attitude can make your passengers feel more relaxed. If you're flying an unpressurized aircraft, the reduced rate of climb can also help mitigate pressure changes that your passengers experience. Remember this tip if you have a sick passenger, young child, or baby on board.

When Is A Cruise Climb speed Published?

It depends on the plane, but in general, the higher the performance, the more likely you are to have a published cruise climb speed.

But even the Cessna 172S has a recommendation for cruise climbs. The 172's sea-level Vy is published at 74 knots. Enroute climb (Vcc) is published at 75-85 knots. Here's a quote from the POH...

"Normal enroute climbs are performed with flaps up and full throttle and at speeds 5 to 10 knots higher than best rate-of-climb speeds for the best combination of performance, visibility, and engine cooling."

An Easy Rule-of-Thumb If You Don't Have A Published Vcc

If you want to figure out the cruise climb speed for your airplane, and you don't have a published speed, a good rule-of-thumb is to find the difference between Vx and Vy, and add that number to Vy.

For example, a POH for the Piper Warrior III has a Vy of 79 knots and a Vx of 63 knots. Add the difference of 16 knots to Vy, and you can estimate cruise climb speed to be around 95 knots. Depending on weight and performance, 95 knots might be a little on the high side, but it's a good ballpark to start with. It also gives you a speed you can start experimenting with in the climb.

How Exactly Does Performance Change?

To analyze the change of performance, let's look at a POH that has both rates published: the Cessna 208EX Caravan. While the Caravan might be different than what you fly, the performance change is actually very similar in most single-engine aircraft.

Let's look at climb rates first. Here are the conditions: 8,000 foot pressure altitude, 20 degrees Celsius, maximum takeoff weight of 8,807 pounds.

• Vy (102 knots): 740 feet per minute
• Vcc (115 knots): 675 feet per minute

With this scenario, you only lose 65 feet-per-minute climb rate, in exchange for 13 knots more airspeed. That equates to 12% more speed, for an 8% loss of FPM.

What about time, fuel, and distance for climb? Here are the conditions: climb from sea level to 8,000 feet, standard temperature, and maximum weight.

• Vy: 7 minutes, 61 pounds of fuel, and 13 nautical miles
• Vcc: 7 minutes, 62 pounds of fuel, and 14 nautical miles

In this example, the time to climb is essentially the same, you'll only burn about 2% more fuel, and you'll have over 7% faster forward airspeed.

While this example was limited to the Cessna Caravan, in most airplanes you'll find that the percentage change in FPM is relatively small in comparison to the substantially better airspeed flown at cruise climb.

A Cooler, Faster Climb Speed

If you have the capability to fly a cruise climb departure, you can shave time off your trip, keep your engine in better shape, and make your passengers in the back more comfortable.

Does your plane have a cruise climb speed? How much difference does it make compared to Vy? Tell us in the comments below.

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• Cleared for the Approach

Real TAS in a 180hp C-172

• Thread starter DKirkpatrick
• Start date Feb 5, 2021

DKirkpatrick

Pre-takeoff checklist.

• Feb 5, 2021

Hello. Looking at a C-172 w 180hp conversion, constant speed prop. Airframe is '62 to '64... can't remember. It's had a cuff wing and flap gaps put on it. Anybody know what kinds of TAS to expect in this airplane? thanks alot dan  

Kenny Phillips

Final approach.

110 kts indicated. Early 172s are pretty draggy.  

A modern C172 with 180hp shows a book speed at 112-119 kt TAS at 65-75% power at 8000 feet, standard conditions. About the same as my Traveler. But real life speeds may be a bit slower. I can usually outrun most C-172s in cruise.  

chemgeek said: A modern C172 with 180hp shows a book speed at 112-119 kt TAS at 65-75% power at 8000 feet, standard conditions. About the same as my Traveler. But real life speeds may be a bit slower. I can usually outrun most C-172s in cruise. Click to expand...

hindsight2020

Kenny Phillips said: 110 kts indicated. Early 172s are pretty draggy. Click to expand...

The 172N 180 I used to rent here would true out somewhere between 110 and 120.. at least according to the utilities thing on the 650.. What you got though was a very impressive climb rate..! My absolute disdain for the Skyhawk is well known on this forum but I actually really enjoyed flying this particular example, it was dialed in just right it was a real pleasure to fly  

ktup-flyer said: Less slow, but still slow. View attachment 93838 Click to expand...

asicer said: Too bad you don't have a picture of the AV30's TAS. Click to expand...

ktup-flyer said: You have everything you need to calculate TAS in that picture. Click to expand...

Pattern Altitude

Sluggo63 said: "SUPPL E MENTAL" is spelled incorrectly. Click to expand...

On topic - depends on the power setting, altitude... can they send a copy of the appropriate page in the POH that show the table? Off topic - those AV-30s look nice!  

I can do 125/130 TAS in my ‘77 180HP. We have the flap gap seal mod and the wheel pants on.  

Attachments

ARFlyer said: I can do 125/130 TAS in my ‘77 180HP. We have the flap gap seal mod and the wheel pants on. Click to expand...

• Feb 6, 2021

Almost 600 hours in a G model w/ the 180hp fixed pitch, gap seals, and a horton STOL kit and I think my average groundspeed in the Garmin 530 was something like 117 knots. It also was afaik the only 172 I’ve ever heard of making it in to the flight levels.  

Touchdown! Greaser!

Mauleskinner.

DavidWhite said: It also was afaik the only 172 I’ve ever heard of making it in to the flight levels. Click to expand...

JOhnH said: I get TAS = 110.6 Click to expand...

Common for Tach to read 100 RPM low. Often ignored when setting Cruise Power. Hence your % power would be higher. Hand held tach will help here.  

Magman said: Common for Tach to read 100 RPM low. Often ignored when setting Cruise Power. Hence your % power would be higher. Hand held tach will help here. Click to expand...

Sorry if I wasn’t more specific. The Tach error is unrelated to the conversion. As mechanical Tachs age they tend to read lower. Oddly; doing a PB on an Aerobatic I found one of the few Tach that read high. Not only will an incorrect Tach affect your Airspeed but since most folks use the recording feature for Mx it will also impact time for ADs , o/h etc. by a little.  

asicer said: Well that's odd. I get something different: View attachment 93851 Click to expand...

Administrator

hindsight2020 said: How does one fly a mag heading on that setup? Click to expand...

William Pete Hodges

I made a lookup table to determine TAS in flight. It is very easy to use even when bouncing around in turbulence. I actually have made 2. The first one was for my Cherokee 140, then I made another one for my Mooney. Here is a discussion on how to do it. There is a lot of information about how fuel consumption varies with TAS, but you don't need to know that to create a table of TAS. Hope this helps. Have fun! https://airfactsjournal.com/2014/02/knowing-true-airspeed-fuel-management/  

Look out ya'll.... somebody gonna come along in this thread and argue you can't possibly get a TAS of xxx knots and suggest you fly four legs at 90 degree headings and somehow use GS to calculate your TAS... just sayin...  

TAS = IAS + 2% per 1000' MSL. This will get you within a knot or two almost always at non oxygen altitudes. Or you could spin the whiz wheel to get it down to the exact knots.  

• Feb 7, 2021

MauleSkinner said: ...but you learned to stay out of thunderstorms? Click to expand...

68 172 with Alcon conversion(180hp/csp) with flap gap seals and power flow exhaust. 125kts/145mph TAS 6-8 thousand feet at 70% power(23/2300 or 22/2400). Be sure to get aux tanks since you will burn 10 gph which will cut down on your range despite the extra speed. 600 nm very doable non stop with 60 gal fuel. Anything further, I take the bonanza 100gal. with tips. The Cessna satisfies 80% of my flying, is half the expense to own. Ivae owned both for 15yrs, but just sold the bonanza, PS, I’ve seen some 172/180hp that did not get that speed, but if one wants speed, don’t get a 172, only if you want a practical, comfortable, easily to maintain aircraft that performs well at higher altitudes.  

• Feb 8, 2021

Eldorado — that's probably very similar to this airplane. And all the aforementioned reasons are a good way to sum up why I want one. This one doesn't have the pants on, but has a cuff wing and flap gap seals... constant speed prop. Thanks all for the input dan  

Our club has a 1976 C-172N with the 180 hp conversion. Fixed pitch prop. I plan for 114 knots.  

• Feb 9, 2021

I think the raptor was supposed to be 250+ true so I don’t think it’s out of line to get 200 or so out of a 172. Maybe add some gap seals and some extra cooling hoses  

MrAnderson said: I think the raptor was supposed to be 250+ true so I don’t think it’s out of line to get 200 or so out of a 172. Maybe add some gap seals and some extra cooling hoses Click to expand...

MrAnderson said: I don’t think it’s out of line to get 200 or so out of a 172. Maybe add some gap seals and some extra cooling hoses Click to expand...

• Feb 16, 2021

1) The 180 is the engine the Skyhawk always should have had. So much nicer than the standard 150 hp 2) I don't go that much / if any faster in the 180 hp version, but but benefit is that it increases the load so much I can actually carry 4 adults and luggage, and it climbs much better. For short field and/or grass, I much prefer the 180 version. 3) I'd recommend to anyone buying a Skyhawk that if they have the option to get a 180 version, take it. 4) I wasn't aware there was an option of putting a CS prop on a Skyhawk. Is that true?  

WDD said: I don't go that much / if any faster in the 180 hp version, but but benefit is that it increases the load so much I can actually carry 4 adults and luggage, and it climbs much better. Click to expand...

For short field and/or grass, I much prefer the 180 version. Click to expand...

I'd recommend to anyone buying a Skyhawk that if they have the option to get a 180 version, take it. Click to expand...

I wasn't aware there was an option of putting a CS prop on a Skyhawk. Is that true? Click to expand...

I have a C175B with a MASA 180 hp conversion with constant speed. Trues out at 122 knots 8K feet. No wheel pants, 700 on the mains and 600 on the nose. The real advantage is the rate of climb.  

Cessna 182 vs 172 Compared : Which Is Better?

Table of Contents

Since their debut in 1956, the Cessna 172 Skyhawk and its bigger brother, the 182 Skylane, have constantly competed. Both aircraft have an all-metal construction and share the same high-wing, four-seat, piston aircraft and have many features in common.

So what are the differences? Why do some choose the C182 over the C172 and vice versa? Which should you buy? To answer these questions, we have to understand the characteristics of each aircraft, so let’s start the comparison.

Cessna 182 Skylane and Cessna 172 Skyhawk

Introduced in 1956, both the C172 and C182 are some of the most popular piston aircraft in existence. Moreover, the C172 is the most famous aircraft in the world. Since their inception, over 44,000 and 23000 of the C172 and C182 have been produced, respectively.

The C172 and C182 owe their success to the simple high-wing, fixed-gear tricycle configuration and high-quality build.

Over the last 65 years, Cessna has not changed the winning recipe, only making minor changes to keep the aircraft updated. Cessna updated the C172 and C182 multiple times, but it only made significant changes in a few models, one of the biggest being the switch from Continental to Lycoming engines.

Both have gained popularity being aircraft for first-time owners because they offer comfort, performance, reliability, and value. The C182 also has a reputation for being a natural step-up for pilots from smaller piston aircraft.

What Are The Main Differences Between the C182 Skylane vs the C172 Skyhawk

They might be made by the same company and look nearly identical, but there are some stark differences between the models:

• C182 is more expensive, whereas the C172 costs less
• C182 is larger than the C172, but interior dimensions aren’t too different
• C182 is powered by a six-cylinder engine that produces 230 hp, whereas C172’s four-cylinder produces 180 hp
• C182 has a range of 915 nm, whereas C172 has a range of 640 nm
• C182 has a higher payload than the C172
• C182 burns 13 gph per hour, whereas C172 burns 8.6ghp per hour

The table below outlines the specifications of the latest models of the C182 Skylane:

Exterior Dimensions

• Length: 29 ft (8.8 m)
• Height: 9 ft 4 in (2.8 m)
• Wingspan: 36 ft (10.97 m)
• Wing Area: 174 sq ft (16.17 sq m)

Interior Information

• Length: 11 ft 2 in (3.4 m)
• Height: 49 in (1.2 m)
• Width: 42 in (1.07 m)
• Maximum Occupants: 4

Baggage Capacity

• Baggage Compartment Volume: 32 cu.ft (0.91 cu.m)
• Baggage Weight: 200 lb (91 kg)
• Maximum Ramp Weight: 3,110 lb (1,411 kg)
• Maximum Takeoff Weight: 3,100 lb (1,406 kg
• Maximum Landing Weight: 2,950 lb (1,338 kg)
• Useable Fuel Weight: 522 lb (237 kg)
• Maximum Fuel Volume: 92 gal
• Useable Fuel Volume: 87 gal (329 l)
• Basic Empty Weight: 2,000 lb (907 kg)
• Useful Load: 1,110 lb (503 kg)
• Maximum Payload: 950 lb (431 kg)
• Full Fuel Payload: 588 lb (267 kg)

Performance

• Maximum Cruise Speed: 145 ktas (269 km/h)
• Maximum Range: 915 nm (1,695 km)
• Fuel Burn @ 75%: 13 gph (32.5 lph)
• Takeoff Distance: 1,514 ft (461 m)
• Ground Roll: 795 ft (242 m)
• Landing Distance: 1,350 ft (411 m)
• Ground Roll: 590 ft (180 m)
• Service Ceiling: 18,100 ft (5,517 m)
• Maximum Climb Rate: 924 fpm (282 mpm)
• Maximum Limit Speed: 175 kias (324 km/h)
• Stall Speed: 49 kcas (91 km/h)
• Length: 27 ft 2 in (8.3 m)
• Height: 8 ft 11 in (2.7 m)
• Wingspan: 36 ft 1 in (11.00 m)
• Length: 11 ft 10 in (3.6 m)
• Height: 48 in (1.2 m)
• Width: 40 in (1.00 m)
• Baggage Compartment Volume: 30 cu ft (0.85 cu.m)
• Baggage Weight: 120 lb (54 kg)
• Maximum Ramp Weight: 2,558 lb (1,160 kg)
• Maximum Takeoff Weight: 2,550 lb (1,157 kg)
• Maximum Landing Weight: 2,550 lb (1,157 kg)
• Useable Fuel Weight: 318 lb (144 kg)
• Maximum Fuel Volume: 56 gal (211.9 l)
• Useable Fuel Volume: 53 gal (201 l)
• Basic Empty Weight: 1,680 lb (762 kg)
• Useful Load: 878 lb (398 kg)
• Maximum Payload: 870 lb (395 kg)
• Full Fuel Payload: 560 lb (254 kg)
• Maximum Cruise Speed: 124 ktas (230 km/h)
• Maximum Range: 640 nm (1,185 km)
• Fuel Burn @ 75%: 8.6 gph (32.5 lph)
• Takeoff Distance: 1,630 ft (497 m)
• Ground Roll: 960 ft (293 m)
• Landing Distance: 1,335 ft (407 m)
• Ground Roll: 575 ft (175 m)
• Service Ceiling: 14,000 ft (4,267 m)
• Maximum Climb Rate: 730 fpm (223 mpm)
• Maximum Limit Speed: 163 kias (302 km/h)
• Stall Speed: 48 kcas (89 km/h)

Detailed Comparison

In this section, we will categorize the different areas of each aircraft and compare the two fairly.

In 2021, the average price for a brand new C172S is between $369,000 and $438,000, depending on the options included. C172s have great resale value, and airframes that have little hours on them sell for around $250,000. However, the average price is about $80,000 – $120,000.

A standard factory fresh C182S will set you back $530,000, but the price includes the top-of-the-line avionics suite and similar features.

Like the C172, the C182 maintains its value, and the market for C182s has boomed over the past four years. The older models are worth a lot of money, with the C182R fetching around $108,000 and $359,000 for the turbocharged C182T model.

Because both aircraft are so similar, some might find it difficult to justify spending up to $92,000 more on what is considered to be an upgraded C172.

Winner: C172

Size and Space

If the Cessna 172 and 182 are placed side by side, from afar, you can be forgiven for thinking they are the same aircraft. However, upon closer inspection, the differences emerge, the main exterior visual difference being the size.

The interior of the C172 and C182 dimensions differ, but not as much as you would think. The C172’s cabin is actually eight inches longer and only one and two inches shorter in height and width, respectively. Baggage space is also close, with the C172s baggage being only two cu.in smaller than the C182.

While the exterior dimensions of the C182 make it seem larger than the C172, the interior space as a whole is not too different. Therefore, when the price is considered, the C172 wins out because the difference in cost is too significant for such a slight increase in space.

The C182 and C172 have been around since 1956 and have gone through many different engine variants. The main change happened when Cessna decided to switch engine manufacturers. Initially, both aircraft were powered by Continental engines, and later by Lycoming engines when Cessna switched.

The C172 was powered by variants of the Continental O-300 from 1956 to 1968, after which a switch was made to the Lycoming O-320 series, and in 1996 the Lycoming O-320 series was dropped into C172R, and this has yet to change.

Similarly, the C182 was powered by the Continental O-470 family of engines for 24 years and changed when Cessna and Continental couldn’t reach an agreement.

From 1996 onwards, the C182 was powered by the Lycoming O-540 range, with the only exception being the Jet-A fueled T182JT-A Turbo Skylane JT-A, which was powered by the SMA SR305-230 diesel engine.

For the C172, if care and attention are given during inspections, the Continental O-300 has no issues. If not, stuck valves and corrosion of the magnesium oil pans can occur. The TBO is 1800 hours, and an overhaul costs around $25,000.

Both the Lycoming O-320 series (excluding the O-320-H2AD) and O-360 series (especially the O-360-L2A) used on the 172s are considered bulletproof. Both engines are known to go past their TBO and run without any issues.

The overhaul costs for an O-320 can range between $24,500 for a factory overhaul and $45,600 for a brand new one. Likewise, for an O-360, a factory overhaul will cost roughly $23,000, while a brand new engine will cost 51,500.

The Continental O-470 series is revered for being robust and has a TBO of between 1700–2200. But since Rolls Royce halted production in 1986, most engines are older, and there are reports of cases and cylinders cracking.

In addition, Overhaulbids.com has found that the process will set you back between $28,000 to 33,500 for the engines in the C182.

Like most Lycoming engines, the O-540 series performs well, doesn’t have endemic problems, and has a TBO of 1800. According to overhaulbids.com, a brand new engine from Lycoming can cost as high as $70,000, and you can buy a factory overhauled engine for a minimum of $33,500.

Both Continental and Lycoming engines (except the Lycoming O-320-H2AD) are exceptionally reliable and cost significantly less to overhaul than the engines on the C182.

Though they seem the same, the performance of the C172 and C182 is quite different. Bigger might seem better, but is it? The bigger frame, engine, and other components add weight to the C182, which acts against performance.

In addition, the maximum takeoff weight of a C182 is 550 lbs more than that of a C172 and can prevent it from operating on certain ramps and runways. However, the C182 has a useful load of 222 lbs more than the C172.

The C172 has a maximum cruise speed of 126 knots, compared to the 145 of a C182. It might not seem like much, but the faster cruise speeds affect maintenance because the C172 will be flying for more hours for the exact distances that the C182 will be, resulting in higher costs in maintenance and parts.

Where fuel economy is concerned, the C172 is a clear choice. At 75% power in standard conditions, the C172 burns 8.6 gallons per hour, while the C182 burns 13 gph. The range is one of the essential factors in selecting an aircraft, and if your trips are going to be more than 640 nm, then the C182 will have to be your choice.

And if they aren’t, and you can live with getting to your destination a few knots slower, the savings in fuel could be substantial. In this scenario, the C172 would be the aircraft to choose.

When it comes to performance, the C182 has bigger numbers than the C172. In areas such as horsepower, fuel capacity, range, speed, useful load, and others, it appears that the C182 might be the better performing aircraft.

But there is a lot of room for choice, and it all boils down to how an owner would use it. However, a C182 can do what a C172 can, but a latter can’t do what the former can.

Winner: C182

Flight Characteristics

The Cessna 172 was designed and marketed to be a training aircraft, and since the C182 shares the same design, it handles similarly.

The high wing design helps make them some of the more stable four-seater aircraft currently on the market. In addition, pilots of the C172 and C182 say that the controls are responsive and control input is met with predictable behavior.

If mistakes are made when flying, the C182 and C172 are very forgiving, offering enough time to correct errors. Even for stalls, recovery is straightforward. Finally, the tricycle configuration makes taxiing and landings comfortable for the pilot and passengers.

The aircraft’s handling characteristics cannot be distinguished from one another because of their design, so if you’re choosing one of the two based on flight characteristics, it will depend on personal preference.

Winner: Tie

If you want to explore other aircraft companies compared to Cessna , check out our complete guide about Cessna vs Piper !

Frequently Asked Questions

Question: what does tbo mean.

Answer: TBO stands for Time Between Overhaul and is the recommended duration before an overhaul.

Question: What Does Useful Load Refer To?

Answer: It is the combined weight of the pilot, copilot, passengers, cargo, usable fuel, and drainable oil.

Question: What Does Service Ceiling Refer To?

Answer: The service ceiling is the height at which a normally-loaded aircraft cannot sustain a climb rate of 100 feet per minute.

Comparing two aircraft nearly identical to each is challenging because they are so similar to one another. However, the Cessna 182 Skylane seems to outperform the Cessna 172 Skyhawk in nearly every aspect, and that is to be expected because it’s bigger and more powerful.

However, cost savings are in the C172’s favor. The aircraft is cheaper, and engines are more reliable and more affordable to repair. Overall, you save more money if you would use them both for the same trips.

However, the question that a buyer should ask is, how will I use the aircraft? If you need an aircraft that goes further, higher, and is faster, the C182 is the right choice. But, C172 makes up for the deficit in performance by costing less to buy and operate. It all boils down to personal preference.

References:

Cessna 182. (n.d.). Retrieved August 30, 2021, from https://www.aopa.org/go-fly/aircraft-and-ownership/aircraft-fact-sheets/cessna-182 Cessna Skyhawk. (n.d.). Retrieved August 30, 2021, from https://cessna.txtav.com/en/piston/cessna-skyhawk#_model-specs Cessna Skylane. (n.d.). Retrieved August 30, 2021, from https://cessna.txtav.com/en/piston/cessna-skylane#_model-specs Engine overhaul. (n.d.). Retrieved August 30, 2021, from https://www.coronaengines.com/Engine-Overhaul Lycoming O320 question. (n.d.). Pilots of America. Retrieved August 30, 2021, from https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/community/threads/lycoming-o320-question.12808/ O-300s – Love em? Hate em? Typical maintenance costs and overhaul cost. (n.d.). Pilots of America. Retrieved August 30, 2021, from https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/community/threads/o-300s-love-em-hate-em-typical-maintenance-costs-and-overhaul-cost.122982/ Tugayeva, M. (n.d.-a). Cessna 172 guide and specs [2021]: Is it worth it? Aviator Insider. Retrieved August 30, 2021, from https://aviatorinsider.com/airplane-brands/cessna-172-guide/ Tugayeva, M. (n.d.-b). Cessna 182 guide and specs [2021]: Pricing and performance. Aviator Insider. Retrieved August 30, 2021, from https://aviatorinsider.com/airplane-brands/cessna-182/ Used cessna 182 skylanes. (n.d.). Plane & Pilot Magazine. Retrieved August 30, 2021, from https://www.planeandpilotmag.com/article/used-cessna-182-skylanes/ Why the Skylane endures. (n.d.). Flying. Retrieved August 30, 2021, from https://www.flyingmag.com/pilot-technique/new-pilots/why-skylane-endures/

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V-Speeds Explained (Vx, Vy, Va, Vs, Vfe, Vmc, Vno, Vne, etc)

What Are V-Speeds?

Mach numbers and v-speeds, v-speeds list, most important v-speeds explained.

• VR: Rotation Speed
• VX: Best Angle of Climb Speed
• VY: Best Rate of Climb Speed
• VA: Maneuvering Speed
• VFE: Maximum Flaps Extended Speed
• VLE: Maximum Landing Gear Extended Speed
• VNE: Never Exceed Speed
• VNO: Maximum Structural Cruising Speed
• VS: Stall Speed
• V1: Takeoff Decision Speed
• V2: Takeoff Safety Speed
• VEF: Critical Engine Failure Speed During Takeoff
• VMC: Minimum Control Speed

Final Thoughts

Ask a pilot how many V-speeds exist, and you’ll get an answer anywhere between “What’s a V-speed?” and “Probably a thousand.”

I’m happy to report that there aren’t a thousand, but there are a few you should be aware of.

In this article, we’ll explain everything you need to know about V-speeds. Plus, we’ve created a handy list so that you never have to Google them again.

V-speeds are specific airspeeds that are defined for operational reasons, such as limitations (e.g., maximum flaps extended speed – V FE ) or performance requirements (e.g., best rate of climb speed – V Y ).

In other words, V-speeds serve as critical benchmarks that guide pilots in managing the aircraft’s performance and ensuring safety.

For example, the rotation speed (V R ) is the speed at which the pilot initiates a gentle rotation of the aircraft to lift off the ground during takeoff. 

A V-speed may change depending on factors such as aircraft weight and weather conditions, but its designation (e.g., V R ) remains the same.

You may find several V-speeds on the internet that aren’t listed here. That’s because the V-speeds we’re talking about today are defined in 14 CFR Part 1 , as well as 14 CFR Part 23 and Part 25 (used for aircraft certification).

Any other V-speeds you encounter are likely manufacturer-specific and aren’t regarded as official V-speeds by the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) .

You may find V-speeds with an “M” instead of the usual “V” (M MO instead of V MO , for example).

This means that the particular speed is defined using a Mach number.

V-speeds can be defined using any type of airspeed , such as knots or miles per hour, but the designation remains “V” unless a Mach number is used – then it becomes “M”.

Let’s take a look at the V-speeds you’re most likely to encounter – and the ones you should know.

As we go through them, use the Pilot’s Operating Handbook (POH) for the airplane you fly, and make a note of the speed for each V-speed. If it isn’t defined in the POH or is variable, make sure you know how to calculate it.

You’ll make your life a whole lot easier if you take the time to memorize them.

V R : Rotation Speed 

V R is the speed at which the pilot gently pulls back on the control column to lift the nose off of the runway during takeoff.

For most commercial aircraft, V R varies for each takeoff depending on the weight and configuration of the aircraft as well as environmental factors like weather or runway conditions.

In most General Aviation (GA) aircraft, V R is usually the same regardless of conditions.

It might seem obvious, but V R cannot be less than the stall speed (VS 1 – more on that later).

V X : Best Angle of Climb Speed 

V X is the airspeed that provides the best angle of climb. In other words, if you maintain V X , you’ll gain the most altitude in the shortest horizontal distance.

This speed is your go-to for a short-field takeoff, particularly when there are obstacles that you need to climb above during takeoff.

You should practice climbing at V X (and short-field takeoffs) regularly, as it is a critical skill during short-field operations.

V Y : Best Rate of Climb Speed

V Y is the airspeed for best rate of climb. In other words, if you maintain V Y , you’ll gain the most altitude in the shortest amount of time.

Compared to V X , you’ll use more horizontal distance.

V Y is the speed typically used during climb.

V A : Maneuvering Speed

V A is the aircraft’s design maneuvering speed. It is the speed above which you risk damaging the aircraft’s structure if you make a full deflection of a flight control (e.g., full-up elevator). 

If you make a full deflection of a flight control at or below V A , the aircraft will stall before the structure is damaged.

You should not use full deflection of any flight control above V A . That being said, repeated full deflection of any flight controls (such as full right rudder and then full left rudder, for example) is not recommended, even below V A .

V A isn’t a fixed figure; it varies with weight. If the aircraft’s weight decreases, V A decreases as well, and vice versa.

V FE : Maximum Flaps Extended Speed

V FE , or maximum flap extended speed, is the highest speed permissible with the flaps extended. 

This speed is your boundary marker when flying with flaps down, ensuring you don’t cause potential structural damage.

Not all aircraft treat V FE as a singular speed regardless of flap setting. Most aircraft, like the Cessna 172, have different V FE speeds for different flap settings.

In the Cessna 172, you can fly with 10 degrees of flaps below 110 knots. Anything more than 10 degrees of flaps, and you’re limited to 85 knots instead.

V LE : Maximum Landing Gear Extended Speed

V LE , or maximum landing gear extended speed, is the top speed at which you can safely fly with the landing gear extended.

A related speed is V LO , or maximum landing gear operating speed, the speed above which you cannot extend or retract the landing gear. 

V LO is typically lower than V LE due to the aerodynamic forces exerted on the landing gear during extension or retraction.

V NE : Never Exceed Speed

V NE , or “never exceed” speed, is exactly that. The speed above which you should never venture under any circumstances.

V NO : Maximum Structural Cruising Speed

V NO , the maximum structural cruising speed, is the highest speed that you can safely fly in smooth air. 

V NO is marked by the upper limit of the green arc on the airspeed indicator . 

If you’re above V NO (in the yellow arc or “caution range”) and you encounter air that is not smooth, you could cause damage to the aircraft.

For example, if you encounter turbulence, the “bumps” you experience will increase the load factor. If you fly above V NO in these conditions, the increase in load factor could damage the aircraft’s structure.

V S : Stall Speed

V S represents stall speed, essentially the lowest speed your aircraft can maintain steady flight.

When it comes to V S , there’s an important caveat.

An aircraft can stall at any speed. 

A stall occurs when the aircraft exceeds the critical angle of attack. This can happen at any airspeed. 

Say a pilot is descending at a high airspeed, far from V S . If they quickly pitch up, the aircraft may exceed the critical angle of attack and stall, despite being at a high airspeed.

So, why do we define V S ?

Well, in a “normal” attitude (think straight-and-level), the aircraft is only at risk of stalling if:

• The pilot makes a dramatic control input that quickly increases the angle of attack, or
• The pilot maintains altitude while the airspeed decreases, gradually increasing the angle of attack and eventually stalling at VS.

So, can the aircraft stall at any airspeed? Yes.

When is it most likely to stall? At V S .

The V-speed for stall speed is divided into two types:

• V S0 – the stall speed in the landing configuration (e.g., flaps and gear down)
• V S1 – the stall speed in a specific configuration (e.g., ‘clean’ – flaps and gear up)

The difference between the stall speed with the flaps down versus the flaps up is significant, so it makes sense to differentiate between the two.

One final note about V S .

Every manufacturer determines the stall speed for their aircraft. The test for stall speed is performed with the throttle closed at maximum takeoff weight.

This means that you may experience a lower stall speed than published in the POH if you’re flying at a lower weight or the throttle isn’t closed.

For more information on stall speed testing regulations, see AC 23-8C , § 23.49, page 15.

V 1 : Takeoff Decision Speed

V 1 , or the takeoff decision speed, is the speed by which the decision to continue the takeoff or abort must be made.

The primary purpose of V 1 is to serve as a decision point. If a critical system fails (such as an engine) or other anomalies occur before reaching V 1 , there will be sufficient runway remaining to abort the takeoff safely. 

However, once V 1 is surpassed, the takeoff should continue, as there will not be enough runway left to stop safely.

V 1 is not a fixed number and is calculated before each takeoff, taking into account several factors, including aircraft weight, runway length, environmental conditions, and aircraft performance data.

V 1 is where the pilot must take the first action (such as reducing thrust) to stop the aircraft , or risk a runway overrun.

It’s important to note that V 1 also relates to the aircraft’s performance capability in case of an engine failure. After V 1 , the aircraft must have the performance capability to continue the takeoff on the remaining engines and achieve the required climb performance.

That’s where V 2 , or takeoff safety speed, comes into play.

V 2 : Takeoff Safety Speed

V 2 , known as the takeoff safety speed, is the minimum speed at which the aircraft can maintain a specified rate of climb with one engine inoperative.

The primary goal of V 2 is to ensure a safe climb gradient in an engine failure scenario. This speed ensures that the aircraft can maintain a positive rate of climb to clear obstacles and reach a safer altitude.

The aircraft must be able to achieve V 2 at a minimum of 35 ft above the end of the runway distance after an engine failure at V 1 .

V EF : Critical Engine Failure Speed During Takeoff

V EF is the worst possible speed the critical engine can fail while allowing the takeoff to be completed successfully. 

Interestingly, it is not at V 1 , but actually before.

This may sound strange, because we should abort the takeoff if an engine failure occurs before V 1 , right? 

Well, regulations state that takeoff performance calculations should account for an engine failure that is close enough to V 1 that the pilot does not have enough time to abort at V 1 .

In other words, if the engine fails right before V 1 without enough time to react, the aircraft must be able to take off safely and achieve V 2 at the specified height and distance.

V MC : Minimum Control Speed

V MC , or minimum control speed, represents the lowest speed at which a multi-engine aircraft can maintain controlled flight with one engine inoperative and the other at full power.

V EF may not be less than V MC , and V 2min may not be less than 1.1 times V MC .

V MC is often divided into two distinct speeds: V MCA and V MCG , each addressing a different aspect of aircraft control under asymmetric thrust conditions.

V MCA : Minimum Control Speed Air

V MCA is the minimum speed at which the aircraft can maintain controlled flight in the air with one engine failed and the other at full power.

Below V MCA , the aircraft may become uncontrollable due to the loss of directional control, making it a critical speed to be aware of during flight operations.

V MCG : Minimum Control Speed Ground

V MCG , on the other hand, is the minimum speed at which the aircraft can maintain directional control on the ground with one engine inoperative and the other at full power. 

It’s a vital speed to know during the takeoff roll, ensuring that control can be maintained if an engine fails during takeoff.

V-speeds are critical references that ensure safety and efficiency. They are the result of meticulous calculations and real-world testing, and shouldn’t be disregarded.

You may have even encountered these speeds when flying without knowing it.

One thing’s for sure, you’ll notice them now!

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Cessna 172 Skyhawk (G1000) Slow at cruise

As I type this I’m in a 250ish mile flight and I’m currently in cruising altitude/configuration. Prior to SU5 I have always been able to peg the throttle at 75% and lean the engine 50 deg rich of peak for 2200-2300 RPM in this region of the US and that would afford me 100-105 knots. I’m currently at 9000ft and I’ve been noticing I have to bump up the throttle to over 80% with proper leaning and even then this only affords me 85-90 knots. Had I kept it at 75% throttle the speed would have crept down and AOA would have been excessive like the plane is struggling to stay up.

EDIT: I just ran it on full throttle for a couple minutes without changing altitude or mixture and was only able to get it to teeter between 106-107 knots where as before it would go to 120-125 at full throttle.

106kias at 9000ft means 121ktas, the manual shows ~123ktas at full throttle. So these numbers are matching nicely as well.

Ah, thanks for clearing that up. I got the 75% throttle at cruise figure from the checklist because it says no more than 75% throttle. So would it make sense than to cruise in this plane at lower altitudes? (Given terrain allows it) This is an IFR flight and the built-in ATC has made it quite clear in the past it can’t distinguish between a 747 and a single engine Cessna with it’s commands, that’s why I ask.

That’s incorrect. Where did you get this checklist from? You simply use the power settings from the POH tables, regardless of the resulting throttle position.

edit: that’s a copy & paste from a 172 manual

NORMAL PROCEDURES CRUISE

• Power - 2100 - 2700 RPM (No more than 75% power is recommended)

Concerning your cruising altitude question. The performance tables are available up to 12000ft.

For a long time I thought 75% power meant 75% throttle, but it doesn’t, use the tables to determine the RPM for 75% power.

• What about 1000 feet altitude? In MSFS I have 90 knots and dropping at 2100 RPM. What airspeed shall I expect at 2100 RPM, clean configuration at 50%fuel tanks + 2 standard pilots? For fully-loaded C-172S, according to POH, I expect at sea level 75% power 114 knots, at 4000 feet 119 knots, and at 8000 124 knots. At 65% - 108/112/117 accordingly and at 55% - 101/104/107.
• When I transit from climb to horizontal flight (after take-off at pattern altitude 1000 feet, for example) and accelerate to 100 knots and reduce RPM to 2100 my RPM is not rising to 2200-2300, it drops often or rises to 2120-2130. Is this OK or my expectations (rising from 2100 to 2200-2300) are wrong and my memory is wrong?

I cant back it up with numbers like you did but I tend to agree: it FEELS like you need more power overall.

I’ll have to look at the POH. Thanks again for posting about this.

FL160 is totally unrealistic in a C172. Even FL80 is very high. Your ears would hurt like hell, you’d feel very light headed and possibly even pass out. I’m talking about a scenario when you take off from sea level. I have never flown that high in an unpredsureized cockpit, but I have clibmed 10000 ft mountains and remember feeling much weaker. And that was after a full day climb, so you could get used to it.

I fly the C172 regularly and 99% of the time it’s 2000-3000ft.

No, 8000 ft is a perfectly achievable altitude to fly a 172 on a long range flight without any negative side effects. If someone’s ears are hurting or they are easily getting light headed flying a 172 at that altitude it is likely an indication of an underlying health issue.

That was about FL160, assuming it’s even possible to climb that high. But FL80 is also very high. It would take ages and a lot of fuel to climb to that altitude.

From Sea level to FL080,14 minutes and 3.0 US Gals of Fuel, if you’re climbing that high it’s normally to make use of a good tail wind that will more than offset that. To FL160, that’s just not happening.

What are some of the specs when you’re climbing? In the sim, I look at RPM, fuel output, airspeed, and vertical climb. I’ve noticed that a VC of 500 fnm gives me a decent climb and keeps the airspeed in a positive rate. I’ve tried 600 fnm and it slowly lowers the airspeed to stall. I believe I read in the POH that climbing roughly uses 15 gal per nm so I’ll set the mixture to that. I also try to keep the RPM at 2500 and cruise at 2300.

Would love to see how more experienced pilots and simmers do it. I wasn’t a big fan of the 172 at first, but with my interests in gas gauges and very little glass cockpiting this bird has really grown on me. I see there’s a C182 in the marketplace. It looks like that model has more horsepower. Do you think it’s worth purchasing? I’m in the Xbox.

You can climb at Vx, Vy, and VCC - Cruise climb (Vcc - “enroute climb speed”). The cruise climb for most of GA single engines is about +16 knots to Vy. The 172’s sea-level Vy is published at 74 knots. Enroute climb (Vcc) is published at 75-85 knots. The task is not to overheat your engine and/or to save as much fuel as you can. Vertical climb depends on your weight and altitude/temperature (pressure altitude). In cruise climb, I lean mixture for the best climb on Vy or VCC but within temperature limits, C-172 with NGX is good for this as she has an assistance regime for leaning, and my best climb - vertical speed is always different. Normal enroute climbs are performed with flaps up and full throttle and at speeds 5 to 10 knots higher than best rate-of-climb speeds for the best combination of performance, visibility, and engine cooling.

I’m not a real pilot so I’ve only been exposed to these concepts, but wonder how much impact they really have? My overall understanding is if you’re trying to save on fuel and parts wear-and-tear then you always LEAN. If you’re trying to get to your destination as fast as possible then just floor it! Is that an oversimplification of that concept?

A leaned engine will run hotter, hence provide a faster cruise speed. But also, because it runs hotter it’s more wear and tear. Full rich runs cooler, but burns more fuel and will take longer.

Genuine considerations for a real plane, since wear and tear isn’t an issue in our simulated plane, leaning is your best bet.

Oh my goodness. That makes so much sense. I’ve been really enjoying the learning process of flying. It’s so fascinating! This wear-and-tear is why it’s such a debate whether to lean or not. I’m with you now.

Well; thank you for that insight. Eventually; I plan to get my private pilot’s license so I want to use my time in the sim to practice real procedures. Make it more of a habit than something to always think about.

Lean of Peak (EGT) Operations : Aircraft Pros & Cons (pilotworkshop.com)

Cessna 170 - Price, Speed, Fuel Burn & Specs

January 6, 2023

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‍ Key Takeaways

• The Cessna 170 is an old but popular predecessor to the Cessna 172 and it is often used to fly into unpaved fields and rough clearings.
• The price of a used Cessna 170 varies widely between $12,000 and $250,000 depending on its conditions and modifications.
• The premium is due to its status as a vintage aircraft, the fact it’s still highly popular with flight schools, GA flyers and flying clubs alike and for its collectibility, particularly among older variants.
• The C170 has a maximum maneuvering speed of 135 KIAS, a maximum cruise speed of 120 KIAS, and a ceiling of 15,500 feet.
• The Cessna 170 uses the Continental O-300 145 horsepower engine that is normally aspirated and burns 9.6 gph at 75% power.

‍ The Cessna 170 is a jack of all trades. From bush to cargo flying, it’s robust yet nimble. This guide contains all you need if you are considering a C170.

Cessna produced 5000 170s between 1948 and 1956, with 2500 still flying today. An original C170 with 3800 hours TT, costs $38,000 while a modified one can be about $190,000. With a useful load of 650 lbs, a cruise speed of 114 kn and the ability to land just about anywhere, the C170 is versatile.

As a CFII, the Cessna 170 family is one of the main aircraft types I use to teach my students (alongside the Cessna 150/152, Cessna 172 and a few others). As a passionate avgeek, the C170 is one of my favorites owing to its simplicity, reliability, and above all else, its safety.

Table of contents

‍ background.

The Cessna 170 is a later version of a previous model, the C140, and a precursor to the ubiquitous Cessna 172. Designed to bridge the gap between the two-seater C140 and the larger five-seater 190 Businessliner, the Cessna 170 came with four seats and an elongated airframe. Other than that it was basically the same as the C140.

Built between 1948 and 1956 Cessna produced three variants. The 170A came in 1849, a year after the original, followed by the 170B in 1950. All three variants have regular, ski plane, and seaplane versions, making them perfect for almost all types of potential operators.

While all three models are taildraggers, it is fairly easy to tell them apart if you know what to look for. The C170B is the only one of the three that has a wing dihedral. A dihedral is when the tip of the wing is a little higher than the root of the wing. This does change its roll stability and you can feel it when you fly the plane.

A Cessna 170A can be distinguished from its predecessor by observing the wing. The C170 has a constant chord wing while the C170A has a slight taper. Neither has a dihedral like the 170B.

The wing of the C170 is covered by fabric instead of the typical metal we are used to in today’s planes. It’s the reason the C170s are referred to as a ragwing. The C170A and B variants have regular metal-covered wings.

Flight Characteristics

As both a taildragger and a high-wing aircraft, the Cessna 170 has a center of gravity that is slightly aft of the aircraft’s center of lift. It is one of the main characteristics that give the aircraft its docile handling characteristics.

Having a wing made of fabric reduces the moment of the wing and makes its roll characteristics about the longitudinal axis crisp and agile. Even its stalls are gentle, breaking without the tendency to roll one way or the other. Uncoordinated stalls in the C170 are docile, more so than in the C170A and B, which do not feature fabric wings.

The fan-shaped rudder provides sufficient authority to counter steep power-on ascents and power-on stalls. There is enough rudder authority to counter any P-factor and torque the engine can create.

Only the skin of the wings uses fabric. The rest of the aircraft is covered by aluminum, riveted to ribs, and strengthened by spars. It is the tried and tested semi-monocoque structure that provides sufficient rigidity balanced with flexibility.

When buying the Cessna 170, make sure to have the fabric inspected and budget for new fabric down the road if not immediately after taking possession. Replacing the fabric will cost in the region of $10,000.

Most people who buy a C170 in the used market do it because of its fabric wing, and if you are not looking for that, you will be better off choosing the C170 A or 170 B that have all-metal wings. The Cessna 170 has the closest handling qualities to the C170 compared to the C170B.

If you purchased a Cessna 170 and decided to modify it to all-metal wings, it is possible. There are mods and STSs for that, but it will increase the weight and reduce the performance of the aircraft. By some reports, be prepared to take a hit of up to 15 knots at 75% power.

The 170A when Cessna decided to upgrade the wing, but keep the rest of the aircraft unchanged. To deal with the altered lift profile and weight limitations by the added all-metal skin, they changed the wing by introducing a slight taper and enlarged the flaps to allow the same approach speed to handle the added weight.

The strengthening of the wings by using metal sheets also allowed for an increase in the size of the fuel tank. This increased fuel capacity from 37.5 gallons to 42 gallons allowed the C170A to have the same performance as the Cessna 170 even with the added weight. To keep all things the same, the empennage was also modified with the addition of a dorsal fin.

To further improve an already successful design, Cessna enhanced the aerodynamics and released a new model, the C170B. Two changes were of particular note. Both had a significant effect on the flight characteristics across the flight envelope of the aircraft.

The first was the addition of a dihedral angle to the wing, as mentioned earlier. The second was the addition of semi-Fowler flaps.

Fowler flaps allow for larger wing surface area as they are tucked inside the wing for most of the phases in flight and used in landing when the flap juts out of the wings and lowers itself. This alters the wing’s camber and area simultaneously.

What you will also find is that the C170B behaves very differently. With full flaps, it is not advisable to maintain a high angle of attack as the horizontal tail is shrouded by the larger wing surface and loses effectiveness.

But the change in the wing area and camber allowed it to land in much shorter runways, shaving off more than 200 feet of landing distance depending on the headwinds it encounters.

The original engine was powerful enough to make this an everyday transport for personal use but it was not the fastest it could be. Cessna chose the Continental O-145 engine that generated 145 horsepower but built an airframe that could handle more. That's the reason it can easily be upgraded to a 180-hp engine.

While the C170 and 1C70A had O-145 engines, the C170B came with the much more powerful O-300 engine. The change in the model didn’t change its performance as it was just a model number change for the same identical engine, done by Continental. Continental changed its nomenclature to have significance with the O indicating that it is normally aspirated and the 300 meaning that it displaced 300 cubic inches.

The price of the Cessna 170, whether it is the original model, or the subsequent A or B model. Varies widely. It would be amiss to set a price and a range and leave it at that without explaining.

Because the first Cessna 170 rolled off the factory floor in Wichita back in 1948, more than seven decades span across its birth and our present. In that time many have fallen to the wayside while others have just become run down. There is even precedence for C170 models that have been sold for $12,000. But that’s not the norm.

When Cessna first introduced the C170 in 1948, it sold for $5,995. Four years later, when the 170B was introduced, it was sold for $7,245. But a quick survey across the typical used aircraft websites reveals prices ranging from a shade under $40,000 for aircraft with original avionics and an out-of-time engine to $60,000 for good condition models.

The average time on the airframe for the C170, across all three variants, is 4,000 hours. The low number comes from the methodology of the calculation revealing that with that number, the almost seventy-five-year-old aircraft only flew 53 hours a year.

That number, while mathematically accurate, does not represent the bulk of what is out in the flying world. Best estimates of C170s, C170As and C170Bs suggest an average use of 200 hours a year over the last seventy years. It is also fair to keep in mind that aircraft of this vintage are not priced based on age and time flown, it is more about the history it represents.

Most Cessna 170s that are on sale have had major airframe work done, rendering the metal that it currently carries as not the same one that left the factory. But if you do find one, still with all the original material as it was when rolled off the factory floor, then the condition determines its pricing. One in mint condition, with low time, can be located using a broker but will likely set you back more than $250,000.

For what’s advertised on the market, the highest median price for one that is not considered a collector’s item averages about $120,000, and it is usually found to be the C170A. The C170B is the second highest in pricing, followed by the original Cessna 170A.

The differences in pricing can be attributed to the fact that the Cessna 170’s fabric wing is not desired by current buyers in the market, and the flight characteristics of the C170B are not seen as good as the 170A. There may also be the reason that

Operating Cost

The methodology for determining operating costs should be consistent when you own or plan to own an airplane. Everyone seems to subscribe to different methodologies and philosophies. Some aircraft owners look at bank payments as part of the hourly costs and even include depreciation, or they fail to include a reserve for overhaul expenses.

How you determine operating costs should depend on individual circumstances and there is no right or wrong way. There is, however, a general method you can use to account for the aircraft over the time you own it. Split the costs into fixed costs and direct operating costs and always consider that the resale will be at a loss - then amortize that value.

Direct Costs are costs you will incur based on the number of hours you fly the airplane. Fixed costs are costs you will incur to own the airplane. This will continue even when the plane is on the ground.

Direct Operating Cost (DOC)

The biggest chunk in DOC is the cost of fuel. Right now it's about $7.6 at my airport. That has changed back and forth over the time I’ve been flying. But at 9.6 gallons per hour at 75% power, the price of fuel alone is $73 per hour. But there is a lot more to that.

Another cost that you must consider is the cost of engine oil. The O-300 easily burns about 3 quarts for every four hours of flight. And that burn rate differs from plane to plane. If you consider that the cost of a quart is $10 then four hours of flight will cost you $30 in oil. This works out, on average, to be ($30/4 hours) $7.5 per hour.

As far as maintenance is concerned, if you are not renting this out, you are only required to run an annual and do the overhauls. Annuals typically cost about $500 per year while an overhaul costs $28,000. If you recall listed above, you will see that the Continental O-300 engine needs to be overhauled at 1200 hours.

Putting aside a small amount of money for overalls is a wise step in owning an aircraft. $28,000/1200 hours works out to be $23.3 per hour.

As for the annual maintenance, that’s a little nebulous to decide. While you still have to conduct an annual on your C170 even when you don’t fly it all year, it feels like it should be part of the fixed cost segment, but when you do fly the Cessna 170, you will see that dormant years cost a little less than active years. So I put this in the fixed column for hardly-flown aircraft and in the variable column for actively flown ones.

The total Direct Operating Costs (DOC) for a Cessna 170 (including the A and B variants) is $73 for fuel, $7.5 for oil, and $23.3 for the overhaul fund. That’s $103.8 per hour, excluding fixed cost allocation.

Fixed Costs

The main things under fixed costs that you have to consider are tie-downs and insurance. The former is about $360 a year where I am and insurance, depending on what you’ve insured your hull for, can run anywhere from $3000 a year to about $7,000 depending on the mods and additions you put on it.

In the fixed cost column, you should have a rough estimate of how many hours you plan on flying the 170 in a year. If you are flying it for yourself and the family, 400 hours a year is not too bad a guess. At 400 hours a year, the annual you will have to spend will typically be about $700.

If I assume that a $50,000 Cessna 170A will only be worth $47,000 in three years' time, then I can assume a $1000-per-year depreciation. Some folks chose to include the potential depreciation in the cost of flying, but it doesn’t make a huge difference.

After all, you have already spent the money and bought the plane, unless you believe that when the time comes to sell the plane you will still have an overhang with the bank, then including the depreciation number in the hourly cost will create a small fund that you can use to address that overhang.

The total Fixed Costs you would have to include in your cost calculations would be $700 for annual maintenance, an average of $5000 for insurance, and $360 for tie-downs. You could also add about $1000 for unscheduled maintenance that crops up every now and again. That would add up to $7060 per year. Assuming you flew 400 hours every year that would be an hourly cost of $17.65.

If we add this to the DOC that we calculated above, it tells us that to operate a Cessna 170 which we purchased for $50,000 and plan to sell in three years, flying it 400 hours a year would cost $121.45.

The three variants differ slightly in speed. The Cessna 170 differs between fabric-covered wings and all-metal wings. The additional weight not only reduces speed but increases the drag due to the alteration of the center of gravity.

Approach speed when crossing the threshold on landing is a major factor in flying this aircraft. You have to fly it by the numbers as taildraggers typically have the propensity to cartwheel if incorrectly handled.

In slow flight, configured clean, the C170 begins to buffet at 55 knots. But the buffet is light, just a slight addition of power remedies it. But if you continue to pull back on the yoke in an attempt to maintain altitude, the stall breaks at 50 knots or lower. There is a STOL kit that you can add to the C170 that reduces the stall speed considerably making it much harder to get the plane to stall.

In the landing configuration, the C170 stalls at 45 knots. But by this point, the rudder is quite mushy in the 170B. Not so much in the earlier models. If you plan on practicing stalls in the C170B don’t go past thirty degrees of flaps.

In terms of cruise speed, the Cessna 170 follows Cessna’s design philosophy: cheap but slow.

With a typical cruise of 120 knots at 75% power the aircraft will fly for 5 hours leaving about half an hour worth of fuel left in the tanks. In a no-wind condition on a standard day that works out to be about 500 miles.

The cost to fly for 5 hours is $608. With 668 pounds of cargo, including yourself as the pilot, the cost to fly 688 pounds across 500 miles is 92 cents per pound.

Most pilots who fly the C170 like to keep their altitude up at 6000 feet. Aside from the typical reasons for flying smoother air, the engines can be leaned out to provide longer endurance while still providing enough speed.

The 170’s fuel burn, as with all normally aspirated aircraft, is highly dependent on the altitude it flies at. Flying at 6,000 feet with 75% power requires rpm to be set at 2600. If the fuel flow is not adjusted and the engine runs at full rich, you will consume 11.1 gallons per hour.

If you lean it out according to the EGT, find where the needle hits peak EGT then dial it back two notches. This will give you 9.6 gph. On average it will result in approximately 110 knots of True Airspeed.

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About THE AUTHOR

Joe Haygood

Obsessed with Planes and Flying

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